The jab ..
- Thread starter pvr
- Start date
mgrlane said:
China should be paying them out for life....! I get your point, to a point, but I don’t see how a case by case basis would work, you can’t test for everything for everybody, that’s just not possible. It’s a tricky one admittedly but all the science is saying go for it, so you either listen to the ones really in the know, not just headline grabbing for the sake of it conspiracy theorists, or don’t and take as much of a risk that the virus will maim you for life as much as the vaccine might. The weight is heavily on the take it side, plus you help the country by not spreading the virus anymore.
No, £120k is not much for a lifelong effect, you’d get zero if you have a lifelong side effect from the virus.
If, as a country and organised society, we adopted the approach you advocate that we are all individuals "free" to do as we please, then smallpox, polio, pertussis, tuberculosis, diphtheria, measles, mumps rubella etc. would still be prevalent and the death rates would return to those of the Victorian era. Perhaps you're too young to have seen and known any survivors of polio etc.?mgrlane said:
mgrlane said:
You’re taking much more of a risk not having the vaccine as you are taking it, you have the science behind the vaccine, you don’t have any science on what would happen if you got the virus, you have no idea what it would do to you, so why not have the jab...? Not having a pop, just curious.
mgrlane said:
There's been knowledge of viruses and their modus operandi since 1892: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_virology
The concept of vaccination, which has long since been proven to be successful, seeks to interrupt the replication of the virus within the body. Therefore, should a vaccinated individual become infected by viruses passed from another infected person, then the viruses will meet pre-prepared antibodies which will prevent the viruses from replicating within the vaccinated person, which will considerably reduce the number of viruses which the vaccinated person can spread to others.
The advantage which we now have in developing new vaccines is that we are now able to decipher and understand the entire genetic code of the RNA of the virus, and devise alternative means of interrupting viral replication with different strategies: hence the different types of vaccines being developed.
Just because most of us are not virologists doesn't mean that the real virologists don't know what they're doing. I can't fly a plane but I've trusted those that can on many occasions and survived each flight I've made. I trust the virologists in the same way.
I wouldn't try to influence or force anyone to take it.
Our brilliant NHS personnel won't refuse to treat anyone that doesn't have any vaccination and needs hospitalisation if they do catch it.
The non vaccinated sick person will still expect to be treated.
Same really for fat fuc#3rs, smokers etc. They all expect/demand treatment whether they have paid into the NHS or not.
Is it fair to the overworked underpaid frontline workers?
Just saying.
Our brilliant NHS personnel won't refuse to treat anyone that doesn't have any vaccination and needs hospitalisation if they do catch it.
The non vaccinated sick person will still expect to be treated.
Same really for fat fuc#3rs, smokers etc. They all expect/demand treatment whether they have paid into the NHS or not.
Is it fair to the overworked underpaid frontline workers?
Just saying.
Im hoping the Jab brings the zombies 
Will take it after I know enough about it
Will take it after I know enough about it
Attleborough, Norfolk
mgrlane said:
Bear in mind that, as I understand it, Pfizer are not making money off this vaccine, and as has already been said, the culture of sueing is out there - no drug is 100% safe, even aspirin or paracetamol, if someone sues the company needs to be able to protect itself.
mgrlane said:
But your immune system has previously benefited immensely from all the other people in the country who have been vaccinated against whooping cough, diphtheria, polio, TB, flu vaccines and so on.
So by not taking the jab you're not necessarily making any difference to yourself personally, but you are making a big difference as part of a population health measure.
It's the first rule of public health, for all public health measures the act will have a minor benefit to the individual, but over the entire population the benefit is massive. It's known as "The Epidemiological Paradox" if you want to read up about it.
mgrlane said:
Whilst its true that the odds are in your favour, one thing that we know about this virus is that a strong and well nurtured state of health does not necessarily mean a good outcome (if you caught the virus) - I think this is another paradox of this virus that makes it different from flu and other Corona viruses.
I wouldn’t get overly confident about your previous good health and immune system - This virus doesn’t seem to be be very selective- I’m sure wrinklies, elderly, fatties and diabetics seem to be more at risk- but otherwise fit people have also fallen victim to it and with significant long term effects.
I genuinely hope you are making your choice on knowledge and facts rather than any propaganda.
I genuinely hope you are making your choice on knowledge and facts rather than any propaganda.
Microchips, Bill Gates, Communist uprisings, government control etc, etc, etc - its social media fear led. 'For what purpose' is always my first response which always results in a blank look back. Conspiracy, spreading fear and dangerous misinformation really isn't helping anyone get back to any kind of normal.
Informed common sense needs to be the winner. Fear is the mind killer. It's also okay to be worried or scared.
Informed common sense needs to be the winner. Fear is the mind killer. It's also okay to be worried or scared.
ronk said:
This, I think, is something we really need to keep our eye on - forget the long term effects of the vaccine, what about the long term effects of so-called "long COVID"? it seems that the endurance and severity of long COVID symptoms is almost inversely proportional to the effect the virus had on you when you had it. And yes, there are thousands of people on long COVID support groups reporting all sorts of issues such as fatigue, chronic pain, migraine, breathlessness, etc. As I work in long term monitoring of conditions for well-being (and we have a spin-out where we use AI for monitoring well-being in the care environment - Augmented Insights Ltd) I am looking at getting research funding to delve deeper into long COVID to see where we can spot the patterns - if any.
Look - I am not going to try and convince anyone to take or not take a vaccine ... my partner is older than me, she's 60, had a heart-attack in the past but is otherwise fit and well, and also works in a care environment (independent living facility) ... so if she wanted to she wold be at the top of the list for the vaccine ... but so far she is saying she doesn't want to have it, not because the govt can't tell her what to do, or because she thinks she doesn't need a vaccine .. rather its because she thinks there's not enough background to the vaccine ... and I couldn't convince her if I wanted to.
This is all new to all of us, the one thing COVID does is keep surprising us - any solution has to be a public health solution, for the "greater good" etc. As a scientist I am as convinced as one can be that the necessary due diligence was done on this vaccine and on that basis, coupled with my own potential vulnerability, and (in part) "the greater good" I would take the vaccine ... although I am in the 9th group on the govt's priority list.
All I say is that people a) trust that the science is true and well-intentioned, b) the "I'm fit and healthy/too young" argument is not enough as even though the odds are small the possible repercussions could be great, and c) as hinted people also think about about "the greater good".
I defend the right to free choice though. But, as with everything, there are consequences. I've heard some airlines are planning that they will not allow people to fly with them unless they can show proof of vaccination.
By the seaside...
I'll be surprised if the airlines don't start to do something along those lines once the vaccine(s) are freely available as it will be a marketing 'win' if they can advertise that their flights are 'safe' and there's no need to wear masks on their flights.mgrlane said:
Some countries may also insist that only vaccinated passengers are allowed on flights to their airports so don't be surprised if, without proof of vaccination, your choice of holiday destination becomes somewhat restricted for the next several years
...and before you say that countries won't do that, there is already precedent for this as quite a few already require proof of immunisation against Yellow Fever if your point of origin is a country/area with risk of Yellow Fever transmission, so it doesn't take a great leap to see proof of COVID immunisation being required before being allowed entry.