The jab ..

[Owdgit]

I wouldn't try to influence or force anyone to take it.
Our brilliant NHS personnel won't refuse to treat anyone that doesn't have any vaccination and needs hospitalisation if they do catch it.
The non vaccinated sick person will still expect to be treated.
Same really for fat fuc#3rs, smokers etc. They all expect/demand treatment whether they have paid into the NHS or not.
Is it fair to the overworked underpaid frontline workers?
Just saying.
oke: :fuelfire:

 

[mgrlane]

With respect we don't know for sure if having this jab will stop you from spreading the virus or having already had the virus will stop you from spreading the virus. There is not the information out there.

There's been knowledge of viruses and their modus operandi since 1892: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_virology

The concept of vaccination, which has long since been proven to be successful, seeks to interrupt the replication of the virus within the body. Therefore, should a vaccinated individual become infected by viruses passed from another infected person, then the viruses will meet pre-prepared antibodies which will prevent the viruses from replicating within the vaccinated person, which will considerably reduce the number of viruses which the vaccinated person can spread to others.

The advantage which we now have in developing new vaccines is that we are now able to decipher and understand the entire genetic code of the RNA of the virus, and devise alternative means of interrupting viral replication with different strategies: hence the different types of vaccines being developed.

Just because most of us are not virologists doesn't mean that the real virologists don't know what they're doing. I can't fly a plane but I've trusted those that can on many occasions and survived each flight I've made. I trust the virologists in the same way.

That's cool. I trust my immune system the same way you trust your virologists- it's been working for me exclusively for the last 36 years and has done a decent job so far.

I really don't need the extra 0.000009% edge that a jab may or may not increase my odd's of survival but I appreciate your rates/situation might be different so I won't judge you for taking it.

 

[Flyingfifer]

Im hoping the Jab brings the zombies :rofl:

Will take it after I know enough about it

 

[ronk]

That's cool. I trust my immune system the same way you trust your virologists- it's been working for me exclusively for the last 36 years and has done a decent job so far.

You’ve not had any of the normal childhood jabs?
My daughter is about your age and had loads of them as a child - perhaps it’s not just your immune system that’s kept you healthy?

 

[enuff_zed]

On a brighter note, every person that turns it down moves me one step further up the list.

 

[mgrlane]

.

 

[ronk]

My daughter is only 38 so may not be eligible for the jab but as her husband is in remission from leukaemia they just might be on the list - they both get the flu jab.

If the jab is offered they’ll both have it.

 

[mgrlane]

My daughter is only 38 so may not be eligible for the jab but as her husband is in remission from leukaemia they just might be on the list - they both get the flu jab.

If the jab is offered they’ll both have it.

She will get one of the three for sure- the government have brought 3* the amount of full servings of the various vax's so even if there is 100% uptake then there will be plenty left to go round.

The only question is when if she wants it.

 

[ronk]

She/they will have the jab asap.

 

[ProfCJJ]

[ref]ProfCJJ[/ref],

But if all is fine and dandy why did they change the law last week so no one can sue the drug company?

Seems a little strange if we all have such great confidence in the product?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-pfizer-vaccine-legal-indemnity-safety-ministers-b1765124.html#r3z-addoor

Bear in mind that, as I understand it, Pfizer are not making money off this vaccine, and as has already been said, the culture of sueing is out there - no drug is 100% safe, even aspirin or paracetamol, if someone sues the company needs to be able to protect itself.

 

[Bottom]

That's cool. I trust my immune system the same way you trust your virologists- it's been working for me exclusively for the last 36 years and has done a decent job so far.

I really don't need the extra 0.000009% edge that a jab may or may not increase my odd's of survival but I appreciate your rates/situation might be different so I won't judge you for taking it.

But your immune system has previously benefited immensely from all the other people in the country who have been vaccinated against whooping cough, diphtheria, polio, TB, flu vaccines and so on.
So by not taking the jab you're not necessarily making any difference to yourself personally, but you are making a big difference as part of a population health measure.

It's the first rule of public health, for all public health measures the act will have a minor benefit to the individual, but over the entire population the benefit is massive. It's known as "The Epidemiological Paradox" if you want to read up about it.

 

[ProfCJJ]

I am prepared to take my chances as a 36 year old healthy man who trains, eats right, supplements the right vitamins and minerals and lives (in my opinion) an optimal lifestyle.

I am making this decision based on 64,930,285 people contracting the virus that has a "mean" survival rate of 99.97.

Whilst its true that the odds are in your favour, one thing that we know about this virus is that a strong and well nurtured state of health does not necessarily mean a good outcome (if you caught the virus) - I think this is another paradox of this virus that makes it different from flu and other Corona viruses.

 

[mgrlane]

That's cool. I trust my immune system the same way you trust your virologists- it's been working for me exclusively for the last 36 years and has done a decent job so far.

I really don't need the extra 0.000009% edge that a jab may or may not increase my odd's of survival but I appreciate your rates/situation might be different so I won't judge you for taking it.

But your immune system has previously benefited immensely from all the other people in the country who have been vaccinated against whooping cough, diphtheria, polio, TB, flu vaccines and so on.
So by not taking the jab you're not necessarily making any difference to yourself personally, but you are making a big difference as part of a population health measure.

I believe I have had vax's for the above so if you and I were in the same room and you had them I would be perfectly happy with my chances and being there with you.

It doesn't really matter if generations before me had those vax's if I am protected from the jabs that I have had- unless they don't work? The reasons why we are seeing a resurgence of some of these illness is people who haven't been vax'd for them are catching them- not the children that have had the vax?

So would you be happy with people that have already had the covid virus not having the covid vax? Will that fit in socially for you?

On the same token say you had one of your children that has had whooping cough vaccinated for whooping cough?

I don't see the difference or effect I will have on you if you get the vax and I don't. If you believe it's the answer then get yourself done and don't worry about me as you will be safe.

The strangest thing that I can see from these conversations is people imposing there own will on other people to have the jab. If you and all your family are covered and you cant catch it from people that have had it then perhaps just let them be?

 

[mgrlane]

[ref]ProfCJJ[/ref],

But if all is fine and dandy why did they change the law last week so no one can sue the drug company?

Seems a little strange if we all have such great confidence in the product?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-pfizer-vaccine-legal-indemnity-safety-ministers-b1765124.html#r3z-addoor

Bear in mind that, as I understand it, Pfizer are not making money off this vaccine, and as has already been said, the culture of sueing is out there - no drug is 100% safe, even aspirin or paracetamol, if someone sues the company needs to be able to protect itself.

Yes that's very proper of them. I understand that the differences are £3 vs £15-£25 on the other two.

I agree tend not to use aspirin or paracetamol (personal choice) unless I have a banging headache (probably had 2 in the last year). I turned down antibiotics at the start of Covid for a tooth infection (dentist said it would take another 2-3 days on top to recover with out them).

There is a place for these things but if it's not necessary then I will not take them (probably a bit like this jab).

 

[ronk]

I wouldn’t get overly confident about your previous good health and immune system - This virus doesn’t seem to be be very selective- I’m sure wrinklies, elderly, fatties and diabetics seem to be more at risk- but otherwise fit people have also fallen victim to it and with significant long term effects.

I genuinely hope you are making your choice on knowledge and facts rather than any propaganda.

 

[mgrlane]

I wouldn’t get overly confident about your previous good health and immune system - This virus doesn’t seem to be be very selective- I’m sure wrinklies, elderly, fatties and diabetics seem to be more at risk- but otherwise fit people have also fallen victim to it and with significant long term effects.

I genuinely hope you are making your choice on knowledge and facts rather than any propaganda.

Happily consider changing my mind if you would like to send me across the data. I have been all over it for the last 8 months so I would like to think I have read many an article from many a viewpoint. If you can show me anything that's peer reviewed that even suggests that it's killing off healthy 30 year olds in there 1000's I promise I won't call you a liar and will read it thoroughly.

There are always exceptions to every rule- there are a few people dieing with covid with no health conditions that are my age but as a caveat my old workmates grandma (94) recovered from it last month- felt rough for 2 weeks she did.

I genuinely hope you are making your choice on knowledge and facts rather than any propaganda. x2

 

[inkey$]

Microchips, Bill Gates, Communist uprisings, government control etc, etc, etc - its social media fear led. 'For what purpose' is always my first response which always results in a blank look back. Conspiracy, spreading fear and dangerous misinformation really isn't helping anyone get back to any kind of normal.

Informed common sense needs to be the winner. Fear is the mind killer. It's also okay to be worried or scared.

 

[ronk]

I don’t think it’s for me to attempt to change your mind but a neighbours fit and healthy mid 30’s daughter is still suffering several weeks afterwards.

We’ve all heard the my Grandfather smoked 60 Woodbines a day stories but I don’t think it signifies smoking is safe.

 

[mgrlane]

I don’t think it’s for me to attempt to change your mind but a neighbours fit and healthy mid 30’s daughter is still suffering several weeks afterwards.

We’ve all heard the my Grandfather smoked 60 Woodbines a day stories but I don’t think it signifies smoking is safe.

I have attached a document that me and my mates were chatting about the other day.

It's about a month old but if you want the most up to date it will be on the office of national statistics.

Under 65 years of age (mentioned on the death cert - not the main cause of death) from Covid 5,584 people in the UK have died.

Under 65 years of age (mentioned on the death cert - not the main cause of death) from Influenza and Pneumonia 7,116 people in the UK have died.

Look I respect that you have your point of view and it won't change but this year Influenza and Pneumonia has killed around circa 36% more people Under 65 years of age (5,584 vs 7,116) than covid has this year. And these numbers are down because we have all stopped our lives compared to the years before.

Influenza and Pneumonia have killed on a 5 year average 336,483 people of all ages a year. Covid so far from March is at 55k now?

Do I think we should throw off our masks and cuddle each other? No. Do I think that we should be careful and should manager our risk- of course. But the realities are is that this King Kong than you see is a Tiger cat to alot of people. Those people that will be shafted by covid are likely to also get done over by a bad dose of flu. Do I have a flu jab to protest them from catching it? No. They have a flu jab to protect their immune system from it and they will also have a covid jab now to protect themselves from it.

You don't have a problem with people not having a Flu virus jab but yet you have issues with people not having a covid jab. :?

 

[ProfCJJ]

I don’t think it’s for me to attempt to change your mind but a neighbours fit and healthy mid 30’s daughter is still suffering several weeks afterwards.

This, I think, is something we really need to keep our eye on - forget the long term effects of the vaccine, what about the long term effects of so-called "long COVID"? it seems that the endurance and severity of long COVID symptoms is almost inversely proportional to the effect the virus had on you when you had it. And yes, there are thousands of people on long COVID support groups reporting all sorts of issues such as fatigue, chronic pain, migraine, breathlessness, etc. As I work in long term monitoring of conditions for well-being (and we have a spin-out where we use AI for monitoring well-being in the care environment - Augmented Insights Ltd) I am looking at getting research funding to delve deeper into long COVID to see where we can spot the patterns - if any.

Look - I am not going to try and convince anyone to take or not take a vaccine ... my partner is older than me, she's 60, had a heart-attack in the past but is otherwise fit and well, and also works in a care environment (independent living facility) ... so if she wanted to she wold be at the top of the list for the vaccine ... but so far she is saying she doesn't want to have it, not because the govt can't tell her what to do, or because she thinks she doesn't need a vaccine .. rather its because she thinks there's not enough background to the vaccine ... and I couldn't convince her if I wanted to.

This is all new to all of us, the one thing COVID does is keep surprising us - any solution has to be a public health solution, for the "greater good" etc. As a scientist I am as convinced as one can be that the necessary due diligence was done on this vaccine and on that basis, coupled with my own potential vulnerability, and (in part) "the greater good" I would take the vaccine ... although I am in the 9th group on the govt's priority list.

All I say is that people a) trust that the science is true and well-intentioned, b) the "I'm fit and healthy/too young" argument is not enough as even though the odds are small the possible repercussions could be great, and c) as hinted people also think about about "the greater good".

I defend the right to free choice though. But, as with everything, there are consequences. I've heard some airlines are planning that they will not allow people to fly with them unless they can show proof of vaccination.