Your thoughts are very much in line to mine. I'm trying to develop the idea so that, if I make the idea commercially available, the price comes in at under £1k and by as much as possible to be considered as affordable and excellent value. At the end of the day, I'm an enthusiast and not really looking to develop a parts business, but I've given myself 2013 to consider my options for the idea, including patenting it.
Rpi scoop and afe intake..
- Thread starter Woots
- Start date
The problem for any aftermarket solution is that the manufacturer has 'first dibs" on the layout of the engine bay, and in the case of the Z4MC, BMW has occupied the whole of the front of the car between the headlights with the two radiators, so this limits a lot of potential possibilities. Your AFE intake might sound better, but I bet you it doesn't make as much torque/power as OEM, so for me, that's a complete non-starter.Woots said:
exdos said:
well youll just have to come up with a better solution for me then wont you lol.....
http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac---s54-carbon-fiber-race-style-airbox-p743c203.aspx?Thread=True
http://store.vacmotorsports.com/carbon-fiber-csl-style-airbox-s54-applications-p2437c203.aspx?Thread=True
either of them would be amazing, i know they arent for the z4m but it doesnt look like engine bay volume would be an issue...more like just general bay changes....
is there anything that can be changed to the OEM VAC box?
Yes. that's what my DashDyno datalogger says.JaEdBa said:
JaEdBa said:
I agree, that on the face of it, it does appear high. However, I've been developing the air intake for the Z3MC since 2005 and for the Z4MC since I got mine in March 2012. I've also applied what I know to other vehicles, which also works and I expect that I've probably done more R&D on this than anyone else outside of BMW. You MUST understand that bhp is a function of the torque of the engine. The OEM air-intake is absolutely BRILLIANT but it can be made to work even better and I simply can't understand why anyone would want to ditch it just to get a better sound. It is a genuine ram-air intake system and I'm more than well-aware that many enthusiasts just don't believe that the ram-effect can deliver much increase in performance at ordinary road speeds. My experimentation and datalogging has proven that ram-effect can be VERY useful at ordinary road speeds: my figures have been recorded from runs in 3rd gear. What my mods do is make the OEM system work more efficiently, which in turn, increases the torque and maintains the increased torque throughout the rev range. Since with my ramcharger mod, the torque has been increased by 8.5% and doesn't drop away at higher rpm, as normally seen on dyno plots, this considerably increases the bhp figure above an 8.5% gain. Remember, I'm datalogging in "real world' conditions, where ram-effect can be harnessed, and not on a static dyno.
This might explain the situation better than I have done: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/power_and_torque.htm
You don't want me to do that do you? :wink:exdos said:
It does. It simply out-flows the stock intake (CFM) which is a fact, the throttle response is improved, and the increased sound is a lovely addition.
And 370hp? I think you should put your pocket-dyno away and head to a real-life dyno (Mustang, Dynojet, hell - even a Dynapak) for a much needed reality check.
Must say I'm loving this thread. Really interesting read and becoming more and more intrigued by exdos' project. Would love to see more pics of your setup Woots.
Exdos - On the subject of power vs. noise I think it's been said but most people would be happy with something that provided the feel of power (sound) as opposed to the actual power itself which would be a bonus.
There are of course those that would want just the power and aren't bothered by additional noise too but depending on how you plan to patent and market this it would be worth working out first who our ideal consumer would be.
Is it the UK street modder after a few BHP more but predominantly more theatre through sound? Is it the serious track mod monster that requires the very best in custom intake technology to gain advantage over the 'mainstream' competition? Is it an international consumer that requires very different things from their mods but loves and respects British/European race engineering (see countless Zedposts re: euro headers/stainless exhausts etc). Or is it a bit of all three?
Around £1000 would seem the sweet spot given what's already out there and I hope you don't mind me commenting on such things. You sound as though you probably don't want this to become something huge and unmanageable but more bespoke and custom. Be careful though. Once you've produced, ready to supply and the orders come in then there may be no stopping the performance-intake-train
Again, apologies for any incorrect assumptions. I'm a creative director and deal with product marketing everyday so it's hard for me to keep quiet sometimes! Ultimately I love what you're doing and kudos for having the knowledge and passion to do something original. Let me know if you need any branding or logo work doing. Be happy to help out
Exdos - On the subject of power vs. noise I think it's been said but most people would be happy with something that provided the feel of power (sound) as opposed to the actual power itself which would be a bonus.
There are of course those that would want just the power and aren't bothered by additional noise too but depending on how you plan to patent and market this it would be worth working out first who our ideal consumer would be.
Is it the UK street modder after a few BHP more but predominantly more theatre through sound? Is it the serious track mod monster that requires the very best in custom intake technology to gain advantage over the 'mainstream' competition? Is it an international consumer that requires very different things from their mods but loves and respects British/European race engineering (see countless Zedposts re: euro headers/stainless exhausts etc). Or is it a bit of all three?
Around £1000 would seem the sweet spot given what's already out there and I hope you don't mind me commenting on such things. You sound as though you probably don't want this to become something huge and unmanageable but more bespoke and custom. Be careful though. Once you've produced, ready to supply and the orders come in then there may be no stopping the performance-intake-train
Again, apologies for any incorrect assumptions. I'm a creative director and deal with product marketing everyday so it's hard for me to keep quiet sometimes! Ultimately I love what you're doing and kudos for having the knowledge and passion to do something original. Let me know if you need any branding or logo work doing. Be happy to help out
SweetRide said:
Proof of your "fact"?
I was well aware that such a high bhp would invite that sort of comment. A DashDyno and other dataloggers which connect directly to the ECU are not toys. I've used the same car specific profile in all my datalogging of my Z4MC and what you see in my graphs is all from the data the ECU spews out. If you don't like it, that's just too bad. Static dynos cannot replicate real-world air pressure increases (i.e. ram effect) unless they incorporate speed adjustable fans. For some idea of how this might influence dyno results, you might like to watch this video which is nothing to do with me: http://www.streetfire.net/video/leaf-blower-bolt-on-dyno-pull_7514.htmSweetRide said:
inkey$ said:Must say I'm loving this thread. Really interesting read and becoming more and more intrigued by exdos' project. Would love to see more pics of your setup Woots.
Exdos - On the subject of power vs. noise I think it's been said but most people would be happy with something that provided the feel of power (sound) as opposed to the actual power itself which would be a bonus.
Around £1000 would seem the sweet spot given what's already out there and I hope you don't mind me commenting on such things. You sound as though you probably don't want this to become something huge and unmanageable but more bespoke and custom. Be careful though. Once you've produced, ready to supply and the orders come in then there may be no stopping the performance-intake-train
...etc.
Again, apologies for any incorrect assumptions. I'm a creative director and deal with product marketing everyday so it's hard for me to keep quiet sometimes! Ultimately I love what you're doing and kudos for having the knowledge and passion to do something original. Let me know if you need any branding or logo work doing. Be happy to help out
inkey$,
Thanks for your comments: they're very helpful.
I've been messing around with this idea for some 8 years now, and one of the reasons that I bought my Z4MC was to see if I could make a similar "ramcharger" mod to that which I'd made for my Z3MC so that I could test the principle and to confirm that this could be applied in different ways. The mod is not a one-size-fits-all widget, but is car specific, and engine bay layout determines what needs to be done. Both my Z3MC and Z4MC have the same S54 engine but the under-bonnet layout is quite different, therefore I've had to devise a different way of exploiting the principle and, consequently, the "ramcharger" for both cars is quite different, but they harness the same fundamental principle. By using two different cars with the same engine, I feel I've been able to properly test my invention. I've also made "ramchargers" for a few other vehicles I've had in the interim and obtained gains, which further tests the principle works on NA engines and not just the S54.
You're right, I don't really want to develop a business out of this. I've already served my time in the workplace and now prefer to have my free time and spend it messing about with my little projects and holidays. Ideally, I would like to patent the idea and then licence it to manufacturers, who could easily and cheaply incorporate my invention into the production of their cars. However, as I understand, the cost of patenting on a worldwide basis is very expensive, and the cost of legally pursuing infringements can be huge.
As it stands at the moment, my invention could be sold as an aftermarket add-on or be incorporated into new car manufacture. I've spent a lot of time searching for patents of anything similar and so far found nothing that utilises what I'm doing. Therefore, right now, I'm unsure of the best course of action to take.
exdos said:
maybe a forum business..? if it's as good as it sounds, and has universal application then get a few people to chuck their hats in, sign confidentiality agreements and develop it further, shares the load for you.
if you need did need an accountant... 
good luck, whatever path you choose.
