Power steering light

[Joez4]

I've recently had the car up on ramps to do a few jobs, change thermostat, expansion tank, serpentine belts and flush the coolant system, upon completing this work I took the car for a test drive which was fine no faults at all, once I got home tho and parked up i turned the ignition off then on again and I had a power steering light come on, cycled the ignition again and it was gone,

Thought nothing off it so next day i drove to the petrol station everything fine until I return to the car start it and the light is back again and will not go out at all now, is this a coincidence or is it possible I've knocked a connector or something whilst under the car?
Is there anything I can check before tearing the steering apart.

 

[enuff_zed]

I've recently had the car up on ramps to do a few jobs, change thermostat, expansion tank, serpentine belts and flush the coolant system, upon completing this work I took the car for a test drive which was fine no faults at all, once I got home tho and parked up i turned the ignition off then on again and I had a power steering light come on, cycled the ignition again and it was gone,

Thought nothing off it so next day i drove to the petrol station everything fine until I return to the car start it and the light is back again and will not go out at all now, is this a coincidence or is it possible I've knocked a connector or something whilst under the car?
Is there anything I can check before tearing the steering apart.

Nothing under the car, it's all connected under the column.
I assume when the light is on you actually have no steering assistance?
Do you have a sport button? If so, when the EPS fails, will that button work?
If not, it could be the EPS ECU failing.
If the Sport button still lights up it may be the Steering Angle Sensor needing calibration.

As with all these things, get the codes read first and report back.

Whereabouts are you?

 

[Joez4]

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I don't have sports suspension so i can't test that,
Power steering is completely dead so no fun driving the car.

Regarding codes my code reader finds nothing as expected its only basic, I do however have a cable and various software (ista, inpa, ncsexpert, etc) but I've never used it so I don't know which software to use for basic code reading and how to setup the right port for the cable.

Could this be an electrical issue such as bad alternator or battery issue, I know last year my battery failed and I had complete electrical failure whilst driving the car.

I'm the West Midlands.

Appreciate the help as always

 

[enuff_zed]

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I don't have sports suspension so i can't test that,
Power steering is completely dead so no fun driving the car.

Regarding codes my code reader finds nothing as expected its only basic, I do however have a cable and various software (ista, inpa, ncsexpert, etc) but I've never used it so I don't know which software to use for basic code reading and how to setup the right port for the cable.

Could this be an electrical issue such as bad alternator or battery issue, I know last year my battery failed and I had complete electrical failure whilst driving the car.

I'm the West Midlands.

Appreciate the help as always

The sport button on the E85 affects throttle response and steering weight (and gear change rpm on autos), nothing to do with suspension. If you don't have the button it's one less check to do that's all.
What code reader is it? Mine is fairly basic, but if I try to check the EPS system it just says communication error which means the EPS ECU isn't talking to it. That could well be your problem. It is a common issue.
Should be easy enough to check the battery charge.

To me it does sound like the EPS motor ECU has failed.
If that is the case it is actually fairly simple to swap out the motor if you're handy with spanners.
I've done 5 now and got it down to a fine art. Much easier with the seat and steering wheel out for access.
You then have the choice of fitting a second-hand one or sending yours off to ECU Testing who will fix it and give you a lifetime warranty for £295.

If you come to changing it I'm more than happy to talk you through it.
I'll PM you my mobile now just in case.

 

[Joez4]

Thanks enuff_zed for the help so far and the kind offer to talk through the removal process when it comes to it.

So I checked battery with my tester and I'm getting 12.3 volts ignition off and 14.2 running and 14.27 when loading engine to 2500rpm basically my tester says the battery and alternator are fine.

So I decided to wrestle the car into its parking spot to get it out of the way which took about 5 minutes and about 10 seconds after parking it the power steering came back but the light still on, turning the ignition off and back on 10 times and no light. I did perform a lock to lock procedure as I read somewhere that that can reset the steering angle although I also read that that procedure needs to be done by software anyway I thought it can't hurt.

But the nature of this problem is intermittent isn't it so it will fail again I'm sure, I'm off to get my laptop set up and see if I can get it talking to the car and find out what's going on I'll report back what I find.

 

[enuff_zed]

My money is on the software saying it can’t find the ECU. :wink:

 

[Joez4]

As you predicted ista couldn't communicate with the eps ecu, I'm getting 12 volts on the main motor power supply but haven't managed to unplug the smaller connector to test its voltage but at this point I'm pretty confident that the eps ecu has failed.

It's a very common fault by all accounts so I guess it's done well to last 19 years.

 

[enuff_zed]

As you predicted ista couldn't communicate with the eps ecu, I'm getting 12 volts on the main motor power supply but haven't managed to unplug the smaller connector to test its voltage but at this point I'm pretty confident that the eps ecu has failed.

It's a very common fault by all accounts so I guess it's done well to last 19 years.

As it happens I have one with ECU Testing right now. Same symptoms and they’ve been in touch to confirm it is the ecu. Easy fix for them.
So basically you need to hoick it out and get it sent away.

 

[Joez4]

I've found a video on YouTube where they remove the entire steering column, is that pretty much the best way to do this?

Do I have to lock the steering with a pin or something to make sure it all stays aligned?

What do ecu testing actually do to fix this?
Do they just repair the module or do they do work on the motor too?

 

[enuff_zed]

I've found a video on YouTube where they remove the entire steering column, is that pretty much the best way to do this?

Do I have to lock the steering with a pin or something to make sure it all stays aligned?

What do ecu testing actually do to fix this?
Do they just repair the module or do they do work on the motor too?

No!
Seat out and steering wheel off for access if you’re a wonky old git like me.
Lower column shroud and footwell panel off.
Column adjusted down and back towards you as far as possible.
Indelibly mark a line across the motor, spacer and column so you can align it all again.
8mm bihex ratchet ring spanner on the two torx head bolts. Remove them.
Big plug off
Pull the motor out and wriggle it downwards.
You need to push the clutch pedal down for more clearance. I do this by laying on my back and using the back of my head!!!
The top cable is tywrapped on and prevents the motor reaching the floor so have snips ready.
Unplug the two smaller plugs and that’s it.
Refit is the reverse but it is impossible to do the tywraps so just make sure the cable is safely routed.
Line up all the marks and that’s it.
To get the bolts started, offer them up with the ring spanner and use a screwdriver to apply pressure to the bolt head to start the thread.
ECU testing replace a weak component in the ecu and give you a lifetime warranty on it.
Buy the service through eBay as it is cheaper.
Mine was collected Monday lunchtime and will be back tomorrow.

 

[Joez4]

Thanks for the info regarding removal, one quick question with regards to marking the motor and column, am I marking horizontally across the motor spacer and column and is this because the bolts for installing the motor look adjustable If so what is the purpose of been able to adjust how the motor fits?

 

[enuff_zed]

Thanks for the info regarding removal, one quick question with regards to marking the motor and column, am I marking horizontally across the motor spacer and column and is this because the bolts for installing the motor look adjustable If so what is the purpose of been able to adjust how the motor fits?

The bolt holes for the motor and the column are fixed so it always goes on at the same angle.
The spacer is slotted. It is the adjustment of this that cures the famous sticky steering issue.
By marking horizontally across all three you are making sure that on reassembly you do not introduce the sticky steering problem.
Rotating the spacer affects the mesh between the worm drive on the motor and the cog on the column.
If these are too close together then a bit of heat expansion can cause them to touch. This gives a constant small feedback to the torque sensor and the motor is signalled to try to compensate.
So when you put it back together, don't get too worried about the spacer alignment until it's nearly done up.
Then tweak it into place and nip up the bolts.

By the way, the bolts are quite tight so you may need a piece of tube or another spanner on the end of the 8mm one just to crack them.

 

[Joez4]

That makes sense i remember reading about sticky steering and adjusting that ring, luckily I've only experienced the sticky steering once after parking the car in full sun during last years heatwave.

I take it there's no room to get an e socket and bar on the bolts?

 

[enuff_zed]

I take it there's no room to get an e socket and bar on the bolts?

Can be done, but much more fiddly and you may need to disconnect the big spring for access.
Entirely up to you really.
I just tried to find the minimalist way out of interest.

 

[thecremeegg]

I've given up on mine, the new used column I got has sticky steering so I'm weighing up scrapping the thing or putting hydraulic steering in. The amound of posts that have appeared in the last year or two on this topic shows these cars have a BIG problem with this, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[enuff_zed]

I've given up on mine, the new used column I got has sticky steering so I'm weighing up scrapping the thing or putting hydraulic steering in. The amound of posts that have appeared in the last year or two on this topic shows these cars have a BIG problem with this, and it's only going to get worse.

About £600 to send your complete column, with motor, to BBA Reman for a complete overhaul with lifetime warranty. But their turn-round time is 3-4 weeks atm!

In the OP's case it is an EPS ECU fail though, not sticky steering.

 

[thecremeegg]

I've given up on mine, the new used column I got has sticky steering so I'm weighing up scrapping the thing or putting hydraulic steering in. The amound of posts that have appeared in the last year or two on this topic shows these cars have a BIG problem with this, and it's only going to get worse.

About £600 to send your complete column, with motor, to BBA Reman for a complete overhaul with lifetime warranty. But their turn-round time is 3-4 weeks atm!

In the OP's case it is an EPS ECU fail though, not sticky steering.

For £600 I can get all the parts for Hydraulic steering and won't have to deal with this crap again. I can't be doing with risking another repair that doesn't work OP's column is starting to fail, it's just a matter of time sadly.

 

[enuff_zed]

I've given up on mine, the new used column I got has sticky steering so I'm weighing up scrapping the thing or putting hydraulic steering in. The amound of posts that have appeared in the last year or two on this topic shows these cars have a BIG problem with this, and it's only going to get worse.

About £600 to send your complete column, with motor, to BBA Reman for a complete overhaul with lifetime warranty. But their turn-round time is 3-4 weeks atm!

In the OP's case it is an EPS ECU fail though, not sticky steering.

For £600 I can get all the parts for Hydraulic steering and won't have to deal with this crap again. OP's column is starting to fail, it's just a matter of time sadly.

The motor ecu is not actually part of the column though. It is an issue with cheap components within that ecu failing.
I don’t see how this can be construed as the column starting to fail?

 

[Joez4]

Quick update I've managed to get the motor out of the car I thought the hard bit would be getting the two bolts undone but it was actually unscrewing them whilst lose, took me a long time especially the one nearest to the steering wheel, couldn't get anything on that bar two small screwdrivers one to tension the bolt and the other to turn it, similar to cracking a safe I'd imagine.

I only removed the seat which gave me plenty of access but I'm only 5ft 8 so that helps, I did break a tab on the second connector I just couldn't get my finger and thumb to push the two tabs in so using a screwdriver to push the tab I couldn't with my finger I thought it was loose but it actually snapped off, I'm hoping that with only a tab on one side that it'll still stay in place

I can see why it would fail tho, bolting a sensitive electrical component onto a motor that I imagine must get pretty hot doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

With regards to the steering on my car it's never felt great but it's a 20 year old car with 100,000 miles on it so I never expected it to be perfect, i just want my power steering back because believe me the car is undriveable without it.

Is it OK to leave the car with the battery disconnected whilst I await the motor to be repaired or is it best to reconnect it?

 

[enuff_zed]

Don’t reconnect it with the seat out or you’ll get airbag lights on. Is ok to leave it. Should have the motor back by next weekend.
I usually keep easing the motor out a little bit to keep tension on the bolts as I undo them.