malibudave
Member
Anyone got a picture of what we are talking about?
Orange 1.8
- Thread starter Paul c
- Start date
ewwimbledon
Member
I love my 2.0 and not sure I need to drive faster. Having said that if I had unlimited budget I might have gone bigger. I don't think it's engine snobbery in the forum just good debate. No putters being shoved anywhere.
shotbybothsides
Member
We are in a transitional phase for sporting cars, between big engines, and the new powerful efficient turbos. For my generation it is difficult to get used to the idea of a small engine being fun in a sports car, but younger punters will probably have no preconceived ideas. If I did lots of miles I would probably have a 2.0T but my Z is a toy, only occasionaly needed for essential journeys. I like the idea of a big grunty 6 cyl, like the Healey, Etype and DB6 that I pushed around the carpet when I was 5.
Even Formula 1 is going to small capacity fuel efficient turbos next year, the general perception of sports car = big engine will change so we should be nice to the first 1.8 on here
Love the orange, very Mclaren ish
Even Formula 1 is going to small capacity fuel efficient turbos next year, the general perception of sports car = big engine will change so we should be nice to the first 1.8 on here
Love the orange, very Mclaren ish
I can see both sides of the argument.
I sort of agree with Maniac that a 1.8 turbo, delivering the BHP that the new model does, is bad for a range that is supposed to be a sports car. If you want a small, efficient roadster, then damn well go and make that Z2 you've been dilly dallying over for the last 5 years BMW!! Not by accident do Porsche only go down to a 2.7 with their Boxster. Eventually they'll be legislated at to force them to, but even then they'll probably opt for 2.5 4-cylinder like they used to. If BMW want a 1.8 then at least make it a 250hp low emission turbo engine, oh and whilst they are at it, they can put the Z4 on a diet too.
My other objection to the small-engined Z4's is the excessive discounting that has accompanied them. Fine if you are PCP customer, but a real kick in the teeth to your loyal customers who like to buy and own their cars outright, and is one reason why I will never own an E89 and throw good money after bad. I'm a car nut but I'm also a keen student of depreciation rates too and the E89 is throwing good money after bad.
Having said all that, I can perfectly understand why people might want an attractive Roadster with economic running costs, particularly in the current financial climate. I just don't think the 1.8 and 2.0 engines are powerful enough and I question whether a 1.8 should be reserved for a Z2. In my opinion the 28i should be the 20i and be the entry level model.
I sort of agree with Maniac that a 1.8 turbo, delivering the BHP that the new model does, is bad for a range that is supposed to be a sports car. If you want a small, efficient roadster, then damn well go and make that Z2 you've been dilly dallying over for the last 5 years BMW!! Not by accident do Porsche only go down to a 2.7 with their Boxster. Eventually they'll be legislated at to force them to, but even then they'll probably opt for 2.5 4-cylinder like they used to. If BMW want a 1.8 then at least make it a 250hp low emission turbo engine, oh and whilst they are at it, they can put the Z4 on a diet too.
My other objection to the small-engined Z4's is the excessive discounting that has accompanied them. Fine if you are PCP customer, but a real kick in the teeth to your loyal customers who like to buy and own their cars outright, and is one reason why I will never own an E89 and throw good money after bad. I'm a car nut but I'm also a keen student of depreciation rates too and the E89 is throwing good money after bad.
Having said all that, I can perfectly understand why people might want an attractive Roadster with economic running costs, particularly in the current financial climate. I just don't think the 1.8 and 2.0 engines are powerful enough and I question whether a 1.8 should be reserved for a Z2. In my opinion the 28i should be the 20i and be the entry level model.
For a car that will probably spend the majority of its life driven in cities, the detuned engine will be popular to some.
BMW have produced a car to undercut the price of the similar engine size Audi TT and Mercedes SLK. Makes good business sense to capture further market share.
As others have said, its a sign of the times.
BMW have produced a car to undercut the price of the similar engine size Audi TT and Mercedes SLK. Makes good business sense to capture further market share.
As others have said, its a sign of the times.
I used to own a 2006 Mini Cooper S, 163 BHP, 0-60 in 7.3 seconds. Not the quickest in a straight line but serious fun to drive.
According to parkers.com the 1.8 has 153 BHP and 0-60 in 7.6 seconds. I can imagine it will still be a lot of fun to drive. As stated it's horse for courses here. Some people will want the 3.5 and its sub 5 seconds 0-60, but others will want a zed, as a daily commuter which has enough poke to put your foot down and have a bit of fun.
Look at the GT86, similar speed/ acceleration and less torque than the 1.8 E89, but it has received rave reviews from the motoring press. A good sports car is not defined by a big engine.
According to parkers.com the 1.8 has 153 BHP and 0-60 in 7.6 seconds. I can imagine it will still be a lot of fun to drive. As stated it's horse for courses here. Some people will want the 3.5 and its sub 5 seconds 0-60, but others will want a zed, as a daily commuter which has enough poke to put your foot down and have a bit of fun.
Look at the GT86, similar speed/ acceleration and less torque than the 1.8 E89, but it has received rave reviews from the motoring press. A good sports car is not defined by a big engine.
have just ordered a 3.5msport but only do 5,000mls a year so its ok if was doing more miles would probably buy a 2.0 but Orange it looks ok in pictures but in the flesh yuck. 
A 1.8 may be extending the range a little further downwards than some are comforatble with - but its still a turbo petrol engine.
Mercedes on the other hand will now happily sell you a SLK with a diesel
Just imagine cruising on a sunny day (ok you'll need to be able to remember a long way back to remember sunny days - but bear with me), you pull up to admire the view - but what can you hear?
Is that a Transit van behind? - No - Oh God its the SLK clattering away! Embarrassed you pull away as fast as you can leaving a pall of black smoke over the view......
Be thankful BMW are offering small capacity turbo petrol engines in sports cars.
Mercedes on the other hand will now happily sell you a SLK with a diesel
Just imagine cruising on a sunny day (ok you'll need to be able to remember a long way back to remember sunny days - but bear with me), you pull up to admire the view - but what can you hear?
Is that a Transit van behind? - No - Oh God its the SLK clattering away! Embarrassed you pull away as fast as you can leaving a pall of black smoke over the view......
Be thankful BMW are offering small capacity turbo petrol engines in sports cars.
Nothing wrong with small engines until you go on the National meet.Speaking from experience of course!
Trim levels are different, for example the 28i has rear dimming rear view mirror as standard 20i doesn't. But that was all I could find online. I'd expect brakes to be different, along with software for things like stability control and brakes. On real oem part numbers for brake pads are different but struggled to get that confirmed. It's also possible injectors etc are different and the turbos but I've not been able to confirm that. Anyone know for sure or are they the same car apart from software?
Trim levels aren't different.
I've spoken to AC Schnitzer this week about the 20i upgrade and the only difference that I can see between the 20i and the 28i is the auto dim mirror (and the extra BHP)!!!
If there are any differences in the brakes and injectors (which it doesn't look like) it wouldn't matter anyway as it's not as if it's a huge difference in BHP.
The upgrade isn't just a 'turn the boost up remap' either, it's a bit more sophisticated that that...so I'm told.
I've spoken to AC Schnitzer this week about the 20i upgrade and the only difference that I can see between the 20i and the 28i is the auto dim mirror (and the extra BHP)!!!
If there are any differences in the brakes and injectors (which it doesn't look like) it wouldn't matter anyway as it's not as if it's a huge difference in BHP.
The upgrade isn't just a 'turn the boost up remap' either, it's a bit more sophisticated that that...so I'm told.
shotbybothsides
Member
Do the 4 cyl cars have a badge showing what they are ? I seem to remember rejecting a 2.5 E89 when I was shopping for mine because it didn't have the 2.5 badge on the front wings, I'm sort of glad I did now ...oh dear engine snobbery alert
Re orange, I have only seen it in pictures so could well be unpleaseasantly suprised by the colour in the flesh..
Re orange, I have only seen it in pictures so could well be unpleaseasantly suprised by the colour in the flesh..
ewwimbledon
Member
StevenH72 said:
Did small engined people get bullied at the National Meet?
I try not to poke fun at cars with smaller engines, I really do... but its an easy target. I never mean it in an offensive way. I am a bit of a snob tho, always have been, can't help it 
In any event, yes I agree horses for courses. Its a bitter pill for me having spent a very large amount of money some years ago on a car that was at one time very exclusive. Now you see them all the time because they've made them so cheap (relatively). I just feel that small engines in a sports car are still a no no, the power is part of the sports car experience, remove this and you might as well be driving a stylish family hatch. I get that people want to own a nice looking car, that's part of the reason anyone would go for cars like this, I simply feel, in my own humble way, that BMW have completely messed up the image of the e89, made it underpowered in my opinion, for a sporty car. Yes the toyota has acclaims while being slow, but then that car handles like a dream, the e89 doesn't. Go drive them both and you'll see.
Anyhow, sure, buy whatever you want, I'm not concerned with the owners, I'm more annoyed with BMW for not getting the cars market right in the first place. Proven by BMW as they're now doing anything they can to make it sell. I should care less.
In any event, yes I agree horses for courses. Its a bitter pill for me having spent a very large amount of money some years ago on a car that was at one time very exclusive. Now you see them all the time because they've made them so cheap (relatively). I just feel that small engines in a sports car are still a no no, the power is part of the sports car experience, remove this and you might as well be driving a stylish family hatch. I get that people want to own a nice looking car, that's part of the reason anyone would go for cars like this, I simply feel, in my own humble way, that BMW have completely messed up the image of the e89, made it underpowered in my opinion, for a sporty car. Yes the toyota has acclaims while being slow, but then that car handles like a dream, the e89 doesn't. Go drive them both and you'll see.
Anyhow, sure, buy whatever you want, I'm not concerned with the owners, I'm more annoyed with BMW for not getting the cars market right in the first place. Proven by BMW as they're now doing anything they can to make it sell. I should care less.
ewwimbledon said:
We tarred and feathered them and left them out in the rain overnight
Paul c said:On the up side Maniac just got 11.8k of list on my new 35imsport and a good trade in for the 23i
Good deal for you yes Paul. Well done.
However for those of us that paid close to list when these cars were first out... all this discounting is hurting badly as its affecting resale prices negatively and speeding up depreciation.
Serves me right for buying when they were new... Lesson learned.