A superb penultimate f1 race in store , or , maybe not !!
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BeeEmm said:
True, I really enjoyed this season to be honest, lots of crazy stuff (Lando trying to hang on in the wet etc). Just saying that if you are going to come down on the FIA about this last decision you really should have the same opinion about some of the other decisions. The FIA are responsible for Hamilton having enough points to complete for the championship in the final race.
Personally I think the season balanced out reasonably and glad we have a new champ… Do I hope they clamp down on the rules next year… yes I do
sp3ctre said:
I agree with Spa, atrocious disregard for the spectators, in the name of profit Silverstone and Brazil were racing incidents between to fiercely competitive racers and they were both penalised by the stewards.The stewards have good and bad races, this happens every year, usually when it’s against the team/driver of our choice.
sp3ctre said:True, I really enjoyed this season to be honest, lots of crazy stuff (Lando trying to hang on in the wet etc). Just saying that if you are going to come down on the FIA about this last decision you really should have the same opinion about some of the other decisions. The FIA are responsible for Hamilton having enough points to complete for the championship in the final race.
Personally I think the season balanced out reasonably and glad we have a new champ… Do I hope they clamp down on the rules next year… yes I do
Completely agree, the only reason Lewis was even still in contention was the super soft light touch pat on the wrist he got in silverstone
I find it difficult to pick a deserved champ between the two of them this season, I'm just glad Max got it as I think it's good to not have the default winner every year.
I think the thing that this has highlighted more than anything is you don't notice so much the lack of clarity in rules when someone is running away with the championship. It's when the competition goes down to the wire that the clarity of rules is most important (and, of course, you don't know whether that will happen at the beginning of the season).
The more I think about it there really is nothing to do in this case, other than penalise the FIA (if you even can) for making the mistake. The fact that Hamilton probably would have won if the mistake wasn't made is by the by, the fact is he didn't and that can't be rectified. The only thing they could do would be invalidate the race altogether or have a re-run (or maybe Max and Lewis could have a boxing match, lol).
I am dead sure Masi will go (probably of his own accord) and there will be a statement by the replacement about tightening up on rules ahead of 2022.
I think the thing that this has highlighted more than anything is you don't notice so much the lack of clarity in rules when someone is running away with the championship. It's when the competition goes down to the wire that the clarity of rules is most important (and, of course, you don't know whether that will happen at the beginning of the season).
The more I think about it there really is nothing to do in this case, other than penalise the FIA (if you even can) for making the mistake. The fact that Hamilton probably would have won if the mistake wasn't made is by the by, the fact is he didn't and that can't be rectified. The only thing they could do would be invalidate the race altogether or have a re-run (or maybe Max and Lewis could have a boxing match, lol).
I am dead sure Masi will go (probably of his own accord) and there will be a statement by the replacement about tightening up on rules ahead of 2022.
I think the only other race result that was directly influenced by the FIA/Masi was Spa - in that farcical 'race' MV scored more points than LHsp3ctre said:
IIRC, all of the other races that are mentioned in the 'whataboutary' comments were incidents during races that were ruled upon by the stewards - nothing directly to do with the FIA and not always the same stewards at each race. These incidents are always talking points afterwards as the judgements are made 'In the opinion of the stewards...', it's the same as a football referee awarding a free kick for a foul with the aid of VAR and the free kick leads to the winning goal. After the match one set of fans will be complaining and saying 'it was never a foul' the other set will be celebrating and saying 'it was blatant'.
Stewards decisions will never please everyone as, even though they have the ability to view incidents from all angles (same as VAR) they still have to use their judgement to decide if something warrants a penalty. Depending on which way their allegiance lies, fans will either agree or disagree with the stewards.
The difference between stewards rulings and Masi's actions in Abu Dhabi is that they didn't require a 'judgement' or 'opinion' from Masi, the regulations already stated exactly what should happen in these circumstances but he chose to ignore them and come up with a half-assed 'solution'
PerryGunn said:
You made some good points that I agree with. I stand by my opinion that the race finished how it finished, and unless you retrospecively disqualify someone then that result must stand. The fact that it should have finished differently.... well, it didn't.... so in which case surely you can only declare the race result invalid.
At least that makes sense in my mind...
If this ends up going as far as CAS there are other options as they have virtually unlimited power to make judgements.sp3ctre said:
If they found that Masi broke/disregarded FIA regulations they could easily say that, had the regulations been followed, the race would have finished under the safety car. If they went down that route, no overtaking would have been allowed and LH would be declared the winner.
PerryGunn said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the other option of following the rules was to allow them to race without the cars unlapping? That would have introduced other factors?
Happy to say that in that second scenario there would be 99.999% chance of Lewis winning, but the fact is it never happened so we wouldn't know.
I am just not a fan of results being changed after the fact, so making the case for that, although I admit I can see both sides of this one.
After digesting the result of the farce and reading all the comments above I now think, as a Hamilton fan, that Verstappen winning was a good thing.
Hamilton may have retired if he had won, as he would hold all the records. He now has more incentive to carry on and will be more fired up to get that record, so should make for a better season next year.
I can't see anyone else on the grid seriously challenging Verstappen at the moment, unless the rule changes make RB and MB less competitive.
I can't wait to watch this season's "drive to survive" on Netflix; that should be very entertaining
Hamilton may have retired if he had won, as he would hold all the records. He now has more incentive to carry on and will be more fired up to get that record, so should make for a better season next year.
I can't see anyone else on the grid seriously challenging Verstappen at the moment, unless the rule changes make RB and MB less competitive.
I can't wait to watch this season's "drive to survive" on Netflix; that should be very entertaining
PerryGunn said:
If it goes to that I think it will be a case of Masi being ditched as a sacrifice, lawyers writing 50 more pages of rules, and an FIA generic statement of "putting measures in place to make sure this never happens again" type rubbish.
The result MUST stand, otherwise it will damage the sport even more and make the whole circus a farce.
Pondrew said:After digesting the result of the farce and reading all the comments above I now think, as a Hamilton fan, that Verstappen winning was a good thing.
Hamilton may have retired if he had won, as he would hold all the records. He now has more incentive to carry on and will be more fired up to get that record, so should make for a better season next year.
I can't see anyone else on the grid seriously challenging Verstappen at the moment, unless the rule changes make RB and MB less competitive.
I can't wait to watch this season's "drive to survive" on Netflix; that should be very entertaining
I very much hope that Russell is treated equally and fairly by merc and they dont use him so prop up Lewis. That being the case I am confident that Russell will be a strong competitor to Lewis especially in the same car.
I do hope that the new regs really level out the playing field, I want to see McLaren and Ferrari fighting strong as well as AlphaTauri and god willing Williams although the shine isnt really there anymore as a merc puppet like AT is for RB
That's correct but if you take the race from the the point at which the decision had been made to let cars unlap themselves - to allow this or not was within Masi's remit so there was no breach of regs at this point.sp3ctre said:
There are two points to consider
1. The regulations say 'any lapped cars', RedBull argued that 'any' doesn't mean 'all' but, because of point 2, we can ignore that as it becomes inconsequential
2. the regulations state 'once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap'
Point 2 is the critical one as Masi bought in the safety car on the same lap, if he'd followed the regulations the safety car should have remained out for one more lap i.e. until the end of the race
Pondrew said:
Which is my hope and fear.
He deserves a shot, a fair shot and not to be sacrificed at the altar of lord hammy
