A superb penultimate f1 race in store , or , maybe not !!

[RedUn]

By the way some are going on about this you'd Mosi personally removed one of Hammys spark plugs.

He should have stopped for tyres, his team lost him the championship leaving him no margin at all when he needed it.

In the end it's racing, we got a 1 lap race, one car had knackered tyres and one on new tyres, is anyone surprised by the result

 

[DPG]

No one is surprised by the result. A quali car against a 40 lap car for a 1 lap race off

Regarding the pit stop, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Imagine Lewis coming in, Max would have stayed out and taken the lead behind the safety car.

Horner would have been on the bat line to Masi saying there Isn’t enough laps to complete the race and Max wins.

Everyone would then criticise Mercedes for bringing Lewis in.

Max had a free pit stop and it wouldn’t have affected his track position so Red Bull had absolutely nothing to lose by bringing him in.

 

[sars]

I agree with a lot posted here, except from John, let the hate go ultimately it boils down to the fact you cannot have the race Director deciding the outcome of a race just because he’s being pressured from a team principle. There’s an interesting article in Autosport giving a post race analysis of Masi’s actions and then the Stewards decision and the implications thereof.

and DPG, totally agree if Hamilton pitted, Max would have one anyway, the fairest course of action would have been the red flag and then we could have witnessed a proper competition

 

[Flyingfifer]

The copium here is so tasty

The claim that if Merc had brought Lewis in Max still would have won is utterly ludicrous, if they did and Max stayed out for track position (as he likely would have) then merc would have had the advantage as the race played out not Max.

The sour grapes in this thread... gawd damn

 

[DPG]

The copium here is so tasty

The claim that if Merc had brought Lewis in Max still would have won is utterly ludicrous, if they did and Max stayed out for track position (as he likely would have) then merc would have had the advantage as the race played out not Max.

The sour grapes in this thread... gawd damn

Yeah it’s completely unheard of for a race to finish under a safety car.

Clueless

 

[Flyingfifer]

The copium here is so tasty

The claim that if Merc had brought Lewis in Max still would have won is utterly ludicrous, if they did and Max stayed out for track position (as he likely would have) then merc would have had the advantage as the race played out not Max.

The sour grapes in this thread... gawd damn

Yeah it’s completely unheard of for a race to finish under a safety car.

Clueless

Oh I'm sorry, I must have watched a different race from you, the one I watched ended with a final lap shoot out :idunno:

Or are you suggesting that if Merc pitted hamilton that the rest of the race would have played out differently and the SC wouldnt have ended?

 

[DPG]

The rest of the race might have played out differently. That was the unknown.

Had there been any barrier damage there is no way that’s getting repaired in 4 laps

 

[Flyingfifer]

The rest of the race might have played out differently. That was the unknown.

Had there been any barrier damage there is no way that’s getting repaired in 4 laps

.... I think you might have misunderstood how this thought exercise works.

You see we take what we know and change a single variable, in this case we pit Lewis, that would likely have made max stay out, the rest of the race would play out as is. So instead of max having the tyre advantage in 2nd, Lewis would be in 2nd with the tyre advantage.... see what we are getting at?

This is the joy of hindsight, we know how the race played out and therefore know what would have happened if merc pitted lewis

 

[DPG]

But changing one variable inevitably changes others. Like if Lewis pits and max stays out then Horner wouldn’t have gone on the blower to Masi telling him to change his decision not to let cars unlap themselves. Lewis then might have had 5 cars to pass before getting to Max

See what we are getting at?

 

[Flyingfifer]

But changing one variable inevitably changes others. Like if Lewis pits and max stays out then Horner wouldn’t have gone on the blower to Masi telling him to change his decision not to let cars unlap themselves. Lewis then might have had 5 cars to pass before getting to Max

See what we are getting at?

Ahhhhhhhh because you believe that Horner has overall control of Masi and he simply does as he is told?
Interesting.

Still its not the way these things work, using hindsight requires that making a different decision at that moment does not change the entire reality of the situation. Otherwise why don't we just say that if Lewis pitted aliens might have appeared and ordained that if Hamilton doesn't win they would glass the planet meaning that Masi would of course have simply allowed the race to end under yellow flag conditions!

 

[RedUn]

The copium here is so tasty

The claim that if Merc had brought Lewis in Max still would have won is utterly ludicrous, if they did and Max stayed out for track position (as he likely would have) then merc would have had the advantage as the race played out not Max.

The sour grapes in this thread... gawd damn

Exactly that, Lewis would have had no problem passing him on new tyres, the car was so much quicker...

They rolled the dice and crossed their fingers...the team let him down...

If your going to play roulette and put all your chips on red, you have to accept that one day, it just might not work out :?

 

[DPG]

Aliens

Too much whiskey.

The fact is that Masi said no cars will overtake and unlap, Horner call him and told him to change that decision. Masi then changed it. They are facts

He might have come to that decision anyway. Who knows

 

[RedUn]

But changing one variable inevitably changes others. Like if Lewis pits and max stays out then Horner wouldn’t have gone on the blower to Masi telling him to change his decision not to let cars unlap themselves. Lewis then might have had 5 cars to pass before getting to Max

See what we are getting at?

In my brain, Toto and Christian equal each other out, clearly both would ask for the opposite?

I'm glad we got a spectacular finish rather than another procession.

If next season starts off like this one ended I'll be returning to watching F1 in person

 

[Flyingfifer]

The copium here is so tasty

The claim that if Merc had brought Lewis in Max still would have won is utterly ludicrous, if they did and Max stayed out for track position (as he likely would have) then merc would have had the advantage as the race played out not Max.

The sour grapes in this thread... gawd damn

Exactly that, Lewis would have had no problem passing him on new tyres, the car was so much quicker...

They rolled the dice and crossed their fingers...the team let him down...

If your going to play roulette and put all your chips on red, you have to accept that one day, it just might not work out :?

Agreed, I actually made the comment at the time that not pitting Lewis was a massive strategic error (again) on mercs behalf. They should have come in and seized the opportunity for fresh tyres even if they lost the track position they had the faster car and would have got the time back plus not risked any issues at the end of the race, for example the puncture that Norris picked up or a complete drop off in the tyre.

 

[Flyingfifer]

Aliens

Too much whiskey.

The fact is that Masi said no cars will overtake and unlap, Horner call him and told him to change that decision. Masi then changed it. They are facts

He might have come to that decision anyway. Who knows

 

[DPG]

But changing one variable inevitably changes others. Like if Lewis pits and max stays out then Horner wouldn’t have gone on the blower to Masi telling him to change his decision not to let cars unlap themselves. Lewis then might have had 5 cars to pass before getting to Max

See what we are getting at?

In my brain, Toto and Christian equal each other out, clearly both would ask for the opposite?

I'm glad we got a spectacular finish rather than another procession.

If next season starts off like this one ended I'll be returning to watching F1 in person

Me too, can’t wait for the new cars & the next gen of drivers to complete at the top.

 

[sars]

But changing one variable inevitably changes others. Like if Lewis pits and max stays out then Horner wouldn’t have gone on the blower to Masi telling him to change his decision not to let cars unlap themselves. Lewis then might have had 5 cars to pass before getting to Max

See what we are getting at?

Ahhhhhhhh because you believe that Horner has overall control of Masi and he simply does as he is told?
Interesting.

Still its not the way these things work, using hindsight requires that making a different decision at that moment does not change the entire reality of the situation. Otherwise why don't we just say that if Lewis pitted aliens might have appeared and ordained that if Hamilton doesn't win they would glass the planet meaning that Masi would of course have simply allowed the race to end under yellow flag conditions!

Perhaps not overall control, but it’s funny that Masi changed his mind after the hounding by Horner, hopefully next year direct contact by team principles to the race director will be prohibited. Horners let them race clearly benefited them and only if there were no back markers between them, this not only penalised the race leader, but also Sainz in third, he should also have had the opportunity to race for the lead. This is why fans, pundits and even other drivers are upset with the actions of the race director, because this was about the show and not about racing

 

[sp3ctre]

So what would be the ideal situation for next year? Finishing under the safety car is really rubbish, so I wonder if they should put in a rule that is there is a SC situation with <5 laps to go (or however many) then they red flag instead?

 

[DPG]

So what would be the ideal situation for next year? Finishing under the safety car is really rubbish, so I wonder if they should put in a rule that is there is a SC situation with <5 laps to go (or however many) then they red flag instead?

I think they will have to come up with something like this to avoid another situation like yesterday.

But like sars says, 2 way communication between the teams and race director should be banned. Should be one way only.

 

[sars]

Wasn’t the race in Baku red flagged with two laps to go? However there are rules in place for a reason, they can amend the rules just not in the middle of a race just for the spectacle