Buy a car with outstanding finance?

[aquazi]

Also has extended leather, not sure about individual interior though.

I like the wheels, very rare, dont like the wooden dash.

Sport button adjusts the throttle and weights down the electric steering.

Tcut is for devils!! If the scratch is just the lacquer it will polish out, deeper will need some work!

And welcome to the mad house!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thorpyuk]

What do you suggest for polishing out small scratches aquazi?

 

[bigdog]

Nice buy!

It really shows how different the laws are between where you live and where I live (US). Here, the financing company holds the title until the car is paid off, and you cannot sell it without the title. The debt cannot be transferred form person to person. You have to pay it off, get the title in the mail, and then you can sign the car over to a new owner.

The brit's do have an odd system. There must be some strange contract law in Brittain. As generally the person that signs a finance contract is responsible for that debt. Whether they have possession of the item that was financed or not. But then I'm not a royal subject and don't have much knowledge of their system.

When I bought my Caterham from an English auto dealer and shipped it to Germany. There was an unnotarized bill of sale. As far as I knew, it had been signed by a chimpanzee. In fact the name on the bill of sale didn't even match the name on the very old style V5. The German's couldn't have cared less either. They registered it in my name and issued all new documents. Hell, I could have stolen the car and made up the documents myself. Very scary system indeed.

 

[mcbeee]

Canadian version (not USA, we don't have "title deeds" for cars)

If there is outstanding financing on a vehicle and there usually is on anything under 5yrs old, make the cheque out to the Lender and the seller, for example BMW Finance and Mr XXX, both have to sign off on the cheque to deposit it . Seller takes cheque to BMW , they give him the change. I get a clearance letter stating they have no further interest in the vehicle from the lender (BMW) and the car is registered in my name (ownership). Happens hundreds of times every day . If I was financing then my lender wants to make sure it is safe from any liens on the vehicle so it basically does the same thing.

 

[bigdog]

Canadian version (not USA, we don't have "title deeds" for cars)

If there is outstanding financing on a vehicle and there usually is on anything under 5yrs old, make the cheque out to the Lender and the seller, for example BMW Finance and Mr XXX, both have to sign off on the cheque to deposit it . Seller takes cheque to BMW , they give him the change. I get a clearance letter stating they have no further interest in the vehicle from the lender (BMW) and the car is registered in my name (ownership). Happens hundreds of times every day. If I was financing then my lender wants to make sure it is safe from any liens on the vehicle so it basically does the same thing.

Maybe I'm just not understanding the English system. But it just seems to make no sense to me that a finance contract is with an inanimate item and not the human that borrowed money to buy the object. If I just hand over my cell phone to a stranger it does not mean the stranger now has a contract with O2. It's the person that signed the contract that owes money, not the object it self. In America one cannot sell a vehicle unless they have the title deed sans any liens. If monies are owed on a car and it is financed with BMW. BMW will provide a copy of the title to the keeper and it will indicate if there is a financial lien. The buyer makes a check to BMW for the amount owed and the remainder goes to the keeper. It's totally out of the hands of the keeper thus preventing any less than honorable sales by said keeper. And even if a seller manages to get a deal done when monies are owed. The financial institution will go after the signer of the contract, not the new keeper. The only time one is likely to lose possession of a car that they buy is if the car they bought is stolen.

 

[JaEdBa]

Canadian version (not USA, we don't have "title deeds" for cars)

If there is outstanding financing on a vehicle and there usually is on anything under 5yrs old, make the cheque out to the Lender and the seller, for example BMW Finance and Mr XXX, both have to sign off on the cheque to deposit it . Seller takes cheque to BMW , they give him the change. I get a clearance letter stating they have no further interest in the vehicle from the lender (BMW) and the car is registered in my name (ownership). Happens hundreds of times every day. If I was financing then my lender wants to make sure it is safe from any liens on the vehicle so it basically does the same thing.

Maybe I'm just not understanding the English system. But it just seems to make no sense to me that a finance contract is with an inanimate item and not the human that borrowed money to buy the object. If I just hand over my cell phone to a stranger it does not mean the stranger now has a contract with O2. It's the person that signed the contract that owes money, not the object it self. In America one cannot sell a vehicle unless they have the title deed sans any liens. If monies are owed on a car and it is financed with BMW. BMW will provide a copy of the title to the keeper and it will indicate if there is a financial lien. The buyer makes a check to BMW for the amount owed and the remainder goes to the keeper. It's totally out of the hands of the keeper thus preventing any less than honorable sales by said keeper. And even if a seller manages to get a deal done when monies are owed. The financial institution will go after the signer of the contract, not the new keeper. The only time one is likely to lose possession of a car that they buy is if the car they bought is stolen.

are you questioning the concept of collateral?

the cell phone is a mere conduit to the real money maker, the calls etc. they give cell phones away with the contract, hence they have no real value.

 

[shortfuse 2]

hi and welcome glad the car is ok

 

[bigdog]

Canadian version (not USA, we don't have "title deeds" for cars)

If there is outstanding financing on a vehicle and there usually is on anything under 5yrs old, make the cheque out to the Lender and the seller, for example BMW Finance and Mr XXX, both have to sign off on the cheque to deposit it . Seller takes cheque to BMW , they give him the change. I get a clearance letter stating they have no further interest in the vehicle from the lender (BMW) and the car is registered in my name (ownership). Happens hundreds of times every day. If I was financing then my lender wants to make sure it is safe from any liens on the vehicle so it basically does the same thing.

Maybe I'm just not understanding the English system. But it just seems to make no sense to me that a finance contract is with an inanimate item and not the human that borrowed money to buy the object. If I just hand over my cell phone to a stranger it does not mean the stranger now has a contract with O2. It's the person that signed the contract that owes money, not the object it self. In America one cannot sell a vehicle unless they have the title deed sans any liens. If monies are owed on a car and it is financed with BMW. BMW will provide a copy of the title to the keeper and it will indicate if there is a financial lien. The buyer makes a check to BMW for the amount owed and the remainder goes to the keeper. It's totally out of the hands of the keeper thus preventing any less than honorable sales by said keeper. And even if a seller manages to get a deal done when monies are owed. The financial institution will go after the signer of the contract, not the new keeper. The only time one is likely to lose possession of a car that they buy is if the car they bought is stolen.

are you questioning the concept of collateral?

the cell phone is a mere conduit to the real money maker, the calls etc. they give cell phones away with the contract, hence they have no real value.

Not at all. as I understand your system. If a person buys a car and that car has an outstanding loan. Then somehow the new owner that has not taken out financing suddenly becomes liable for said loan when they never signed a financial contract. The difference being, that in America the original person whom took out said loan and sold the car without having paid said loan is still fully responsible for that loan. The new owner is held harmless unless the loan is in default. Even then the finance company still has no legal standing to demand that the new owner is now somehow responsible for the old contract. Generally the FIRST course of action by a finance company is court action against the prior owner for breach of contract.

 

[JaEdBa]

Not at all. as I understand your system. If a person buys a car and that car has an outstanding loan. Then somehow the new owner that has not taken out financing suddenly becomes liable for said loan when they never signed a financial contract. The difference being, that in America the original person whom took out said loan and sold the car without having paid said loan is still fully responsible for that loan. The new owner is held harmless unless the loan is in default. Even then the finance company still has no legal standing to demand that the new owner is now somehow responsible for the old contract. Generally the FIRST course of action by a finance company is court action against the prior owner for breach of contract.

not really, they have bought something that the previous owner had no right to sell without settling the debt. it's much the same as buying a house with a mortgage, you wouldn't rock up and hand over a suitcase of money and take the keys without first checking the mortgaged position of the house.

although I did happen on eastenders on Christmas day and Danny Dyer did in fact pay Phil Mitchell in pound notes for the transfer of the queen vic keys...he didn't even do a stock take, he bought it on Shane Ritchie's recommendation...

 

[mad4slalom]

did the same with my coupe, no probs with bmw finance , just paid it off and got a letter from bmw to confirm and paid him out the difference. a lot of people automatically think the worst of people , but you can normally tell if a person is straight or not within a few minutes of meeting them , gut feeling goes a long way. as does trust which works both ways . saying that, bmw were slow in confirming to the seller that my money had gone through and I was on the way from cwll to bournemouth to collect the car so he was getting a bit twitchy. all worked out well though . which reminds me ... must give it a blast on new years day. :driving:

 

[bigdog]

What I find strange is the fact that in the UK (a rather modern country) it seems that a sale CAN happen on a financed car without the new owner knowing it. In America it can't happen as the registered keepers copy of the title deed has the name of the lien holder on it, And said lien holder retains the original title deed. A prospective new owner doesn't have to do anything but look at it as both the seller and buyer must sign the title deed for a transfer of ownership to take place. Which of course the seller won't have should there be outstanding finance. It's the same for a house in America. You can't sell a house or land (real property) without a title deed.

The American title deed is a simple fairly foolproof system really. Which is why I find it puzzling that the UK has such a wonky way of transferring an expensive and very often collateralized item such as a car.

 

[sars]

Our legal system is ancient bigdog, under English law the registered keeper, the bit of paper that gets handed over at sale does not signify ownership, just who is responsible for the car. That's why if you buy privately you do a finance check to make sure, buyer beware etcetera.

I don't find it strange that in our system we do not have a document that states who the actual owner is, everything we buy, apart from land/property, does not have one so why should a car. However if you take finance out specifically against an item, be it a watch or boat where ownership can be applied by an individual mark (serial number) then the same applies, if it can't then a personal loan is used where the finance is against a person and not the object.

 

[JaEdBa]

What I find strange is the fact that in the UK (a rather modern country) it seems that a sale CAN happen on a financed car without the new owner knowing it. In America it can't happen as the registered keepers copy of the title deed has the name of the lien holder on it, And said lien holder retains the original title deed. A prospective new owner doesn't have to do anything but look at it as both the seller and buyer must sign the title deed for a transfer of ownership to take place. Which of course the seller won't have should there be outstanding finance. It's the same for a house in America. You can't sell a house or land (real property) without a title deed.

The American title deed is a simple fairly foolproof system really. Which is why I find it puzzling that the UK has such a wonky way of transferring an expensive and very often collateralized item such as a car.

that's the difference between an operating lease (leasing) and a finance lease (usually HP).

did not the American mortgaging system cause us a few issues 5 years back?

 

[RJG]

Our legal system is ancient bigdog, under English law the registered keeper, the bit of paper that gets handed over at sale does not signify ownership, just who is responsible for the car. That's why if you buy privately you do a finance check to make sure, buyer beware etcetera.

I don't find it strange that in our system we do not have a document that states who the actual owner is, everything we buy, apart from land/property, does not have one so why should a car. However if you take finance out specifically against an item, be it a watch or boat where ownership can be applied by an individual mark (serial number) then the same applies, if it can't then a personal loan is used where the finance is against a person and not the object.

Unless it happens to be a Logbook loan. Then it's a whole different ball game.

 

[mcbeee]

What I find strange is the fact that in the UK (a rather modern country) it seems that a sale CAN happen on a financed car without the new owner knowing it. In America it can't happen as the registered keepers copy of the title deed has the name of the lien holder on it, And said lien holder retains the original title deed. A prospective new owner doesn't have to do anything but look at it as both the seller and buyer must sign the title deed for a transfer of ownership to take place. Which of course the seller won't have should there be outstanding finance. It's the same for a house in America. You can't sell a house or land (real property) without a title deed.

The American title deed is a simple fairly foolproof system really. Which is why I find it puzzling that the UK has such a wonky way of transferring an expensive and very often collateralized item such as a car.

that's the difference between an operating lease (leasing) and a finance lease (usually HP).

did not the American mortgaging system cause us a few issues 5 years back?

not the mortgage system, the lenders were giving money away to people who could never pay it back, greed was the culprit. I saw rows of repo'd houses that were way above the income levels of the former owners, with boats and SUV's in the driveways. when you make $40k a year , you don't buy a $400k house and expect to make the payments when the initial sweetheart deal runs out.