Z4M engine failure - repair and uprgrade advice

TomK said:
Yorkie Z said:
You'd think since this engine has been in production for 5 years by the time the op's car got one that these problems would of been sorted. From what he's saying the service history is tip top.

I would agree with that. As I alluded to in the post above it does seem that the S54s in these cars seem more fragile than in the e46. Could it be a 'bad' batch of the later engines (the Z4m started life in 06 where all the e46 engined cars had stopped selling by then, roughly)? Could it be something to do with the different ECU we run? There is not one instance I can find of in E46M3 land for the low rev hesitation that many Z4M owners experience for instance. Or could it just be that many of these sports cars have been driven extremely hard in there early lives, or proportionately more so than the M3 versions.
Whichever way, yes I guess they are a 'ticking time bomb', but then to a certain extent so is any engine by their very nature. It doesn't stop me taking it on track, like you I make regular oil changes and also keep an eye on the cams from time to time, but I'm always aware that something major could go wrong, it's a risk you just have to take, just as you would with taking any other car on track or nailing it everywhere all the time.

Apologies also to the OP for the hijack, but yes I would agree with others and say that sounds like the cams/followers.


sadly from what i see we will all get a big bill from these engines at some point if owned long enough..... just a matter of time, i will continue to love, enjoy and rev, i should be even more worried than you guys, I've stuck a whopping great blower onto mine, lol... however the blower doesnt seem to effect the common issues, they will happen with or without that on anyway, so i guess i may as well go out with a Bang.... ( hopefully not literally)
 
Yorkie Z said:
You'd think since this engine has been in production for 5 years by the time the op's car got one that these problems would of been sorted. From what he's saying the service history is tip top.
I'm an M owner myself and my car gets an oil change every 2000 miles. From what I've seen and read it feels like the engine is a ticking time bomb, and that does take away from the enjoyment a little.

I took my 3.0Z on 3 track days, I'm unsure if I should track the M.???
Mine had an engine under warranty at 23,000 miles. It was a September 2006 car, so an 'early' engine I assume. The new engine was in 2009, so the end of the engine run and maybe any remaining problems had been sorted?

However, mine never sounded like any of these videos. Mine was a 'simple' misfire and recurring EML.

Never got a clear answer from the dealer about the cause, despite them insisting BMW wanted it back to investigate. A year later I was told it had just been 'binned'. At one point it was a dodgy coil, then a bent valve, then a missing shim, then VANOS failure, etc. In the end BMW said to replace it as they were racking up a huge investigation/diagnostics bill (which they tried to get me to contribute to).

I don't know how the previous owner cared for it, but the service history for a young car with 9000 miles on it was minimal.

Since then, mine has covered 125,000 miles, done 2-3 trackdays and 2-3 Ring trips a year for the last 5 years. One of the reasons I don't stay in a hotel right next door to the 'Ring is that I want the 10 miles or so to warm the car up normally before heading out on the track, plus I'm rarely using the full rev range on track as there's no need to - regularly changing at 7000-7250rpm will likely reduce wear, but if I need the extra 500rpm or so when I'm overtaking, I'm never scared of using it.

Other than the MAF I got replaced after it started cutting out during acceleration on the National Meet last year (or the year before), it's not had anything else wrong with the engine (until the EML came on after my accident).

It get over serviced to an extent (i.e. 7000 mile oil service, annual inspection 2, brake fluid twice a year, etc.), and I've got no worries about its reliability.

Could it go POP tomorrow? Possibly, but I had that worry with my modified VR6, and e34 M5, but you don't hear of either of those engines being called a ticking time bomb!

Have any of the posts I've seen over the last year or so scared me, or put me off driving it hard? No!

Have any of the posts made me consider cancelling my May and September 'Ring trips this year (assuming my car is fully working after the accident)? No!
 
I've not shown this clip before, this was the Z4M we nearly bought last year, now up for sale again. As you can hear the sound is very similar to the OP. The clip was taken in a main dealers car park having spent some time there being diagnosed (the car not me), initially for suspected Vanos or followers. At the stage I viewed the car with my wife the technician thought the problem was something at the bottom end, possibly a little end, but BMW would have wanted a fair amount of cash to diagnose further, we walked away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95x96Uypq4M&feature=youtu.be

then listen to the click posted by tomTVR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYBe0K-bfyI

Sorry for your bad luck Tom :(
 
Fishy Dave said:
I've not shown this clip before, this was the Z4M we nearly bought last year, now up for sale again. As you can hear the sound is very similar to the OP. The clip was taken in a main dealers car park having spent some time there being diagnosed (the car not me), initially for suspected Vanos or followers. At the stage I viewed the car with my wife the technician thought the problem was something at the bottom end, but BMW would have wanted a fair amount of cash to diagnose further, we walked away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95x96Uypq4M&feature=youtu.be

That sounds like it has the VANOS and follower issues! :?
 
Fishy Dave said:
I've not shown this clip before, this was the Z4M we nearly bought last year, now up for sale again. As you can hear the sound is very similar to the OP. The clip was taken in a main dealers car park having spent some time there being diagnosed (the car not me), initially for suspected Vanos or followers. At the stage I viewed the car with my wife the technician thought the problem was something at the bottom end, possibly a little end, but BMW would have wanted a fair amount of cash to diagnose further, we walked away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95x96Uypq4M&feature=youtu.be

then listen to the click posted by tomTVR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYBe0K-bfyI

Sorry for your bad luck Tom :(

Wow that really is identical, it would be interesting to see what they/the unsuspecting new owner needed to have done. I'll have to keep an eye out!
 
Really feel for this bloke and genuinely hope he gets it sorted soon with out too much pain emotionally or on the wallet .
But to put things into perspective re S54 reliability -this engine is relatively bombproof cf say TVR straight six where finger follower failures were I beleive circa 20% -you need proper brave pills to run one of those i can tell you . As has been said already there is no such thing as a high performance engine which is genuinely bomb proof -perhaps aside from the Honda S2K engine ?
 
I'd say the 5cyl turbo in my former Fiat Coupe is pretty bomb proof too, compared to most german engines anyway. Then again I suppose the bearings are almost twice the size from s54..

Knock on wood my engine last a bit longer.. 167000km's but still very silent.
 
Mad Professor said:
Really feel for this bloke and genuinely hope he gets it sorted soon with out too much pain emotionally or on the wallet .
But to put things into perspective re S54 reliability -this engine is relatively bombproof cf say TVR straight six where finger follower failures were I beleive circa 20% -you need proper brave pills to run one of those i can tell you . As has been said already there is no such thing as a high performance engine which is genuinely bomb proof -perhaps aside from the Honda S2K engine ?

The S2000 forums have plenty of owners lamenting their blown F20C....

OP, it sounds like worn followers +/- cams to me too. Good luck getting it fixed.
 
It sounds scary.

Definitely more "metal banging" a sound than the famous Vanos rattle on the M5/ Z8 V8 S62
i.e.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlTNhaEC6Cc . That sounds more like an diesel and is not cheap to fix but isn`t really a enormous worry.

Could it have to do with the rod bearings? I understand you can hear them as well just before they go.. If so, this is a moment to be worried and stop using the car. I know a lot of German owners replace them around 120.000 km/ 75K miles.
 
BMWZ4MC said:
Mad Professor said:
Really feel for this bloke and genuinely hope he gets it sorted soon with out too much pain emotionally or on the wallet .
But to put things into perspective re S54 reliability -this engine is relatively bombproof cf say TVR straight six where finger follower failures were I beleive circa 20% -you need proper brave pills to run one of those i can tell you . As has been said already there is no such thing as a high performance engine which is genuinely bomb proof -perhaps aside from the Honda S2K engine ?

The S2000 forums have plenty of owners lamenting their blown F20C....

OP, it sounds like worn followers +/- cams to me too. Good luck getting it fixed.

Yup, there were class actions in the states, recalls etc. Eventually they had enough and redesigned it as a 2.2 for the US market. For the first 5 years or so, S2Ki was riddles with pictures of blown motors. These days I'd buy one in a heart beat.

It's way too easy to blow things out of proportion on the internet.
 
abar121 said:
BMWZ4MC said:
Mad Professor said:
Really feel for this bloke and genuinely hope he gets it sorted soon with out too much pain emotionally or on the wallet .
But to put things into perspective re S54 reliability -this engine is relatively bombproof cf say TVR straight six where finger follower failures were I beleive circa 20% -you need proper brave pills to run one of those i can tell you . As has been said already there is no such thing as a high performance engine which is genuinely bomb proof -perhaps aside from the Honda S2K engine ?

The S2000 forums have plenty of owners lamenting their blown F20C....

OP, it sounds like worn followers +/- cams to me too. Good luck getting it fixed.

Yup, there were class actions in the states, recalls etc. Eventually they had enough and redesigned it as a 2.2 for the US market. For the first 5 years or so, S2Ki was riddles with pictures of blown motors. These days I'd buy one in a heart beat.

It's way too easy to blow things out of proportion on the internet.

I'm about to sell mine if you want it :wink:
 
BMWZ4MC said:
abar121 said:
BMWZ4MC said:
The S2000 forums have plenty of owners lamenting their blown F20C....

OP, it sounds like worn followers +/- cams to me too. Good luck getting it fixed.

Yup, there were class actions in the states, recalls etc. Eventually they had enough and redesigned it as a 2.2 for the US market. For the first 5 years or so, S2Ki was riddles with pictures of blown motors. These days I'd buy one in a heart beat.

It's way too easy to blow things out of proportion on the internet.

I'm about to sell mine if you want it :wink:

No thanks mate. I kind of meant that metaphorically :) If I wanted one, reliability wouldn't be a reason to put me off.

Afraid I really didn't like the late model I drove, zero steering feel and inert handling doesn't really appeal to me.
 
I'd agree about the lack of feedback from the steering but not the inert handling. Honda changed the suspension setup over the years of S2000 production, generally softening what was regarded as "challenging" handling that was prone to snap oversteer (bearing in mind there was no DSC / traction control until the last few years of production).
Mine is a fairly early car (2003) and had been my year round daily driver until recently. I've found the handling to be fantastic - it's both predictable and controllable at and beyond the limit. Over the years I've heavily modified my ///M for track use, but I would think that an OEM early S2000 would give a stock Z4M a real run for its money on a tight technical track.
 
Are you sure this isn't injector/timing tick? It's very common on BMWs - could this apply to the s54 as well? Worth investigating before you decide a rebuild is in order if everything is running well. I'd be inclined to go after this first. I had this issue with my e36 coupe and it ran absolutely fine, the remap had knocked out the timing so there was a bit of lower rpm powerloss but that was the only issue.
 
That indeed is not a good sound from an S54. That knocking sound is not the usual valve clearance / shims tolerance nor Vanos rattle either.

Go to a serious specialist like Abbey Motorsport who see plenty of these motors in various states (from OEM to highly tuned race applications)and they should know fairly easily without going through the BMW diagnostic nonsense and bills. Do it soon and don't drive the car.

Good luck and keep us posted.

BTW. That S54 (B32) engine, well maintained is bombproof. You have to remember that the basic architecture from the M1 M5 then the S50 S52 are the same and were developed over a few decades. I'll flight the flag and say that BMW probably make some of the best engines out there and do not go to market with a semi developed product. When it comes to inline 6's, they know what they are doing. Of course the point of the littered and forums is to discuss what's wrong so it blows any problems out of proportion. Plenty on this forum drive their cars a lot and do trackdays without an intensive maintenance schedule far from normal and have never even changed a MAFF.
 
ny news OP???

agree this engine for its performance is reliable just needs really detailed maintenance , i do however think the oil change intervals are too long, and sub 10k would be better or yearly if more miles.
 
I'm still waiting to take it to the second BMW specialist on monday although I'm now thinking it might be better to take it to one of the top places in the country. Are there any other bonafide S54 specialists any further north? (I'm in York). Abbey is a bit far, I don't think my car would make it, it all runs 100% perfectly apart from the noise but I'd hate to get complacent and throw a rod :(

I'll keep this thread updated until it's fixed for reference

PS the S2000 is one of my favourite cars but the insurance cost makes the Z4M's seem like buttons :o
 
tomTVR said:
Are there any other bonafide S54 specialists any further north? (I'm in York).
I'd be taking it to Geoff steel, I think they are relatively near you, Gainsborough?
What they don't know about these engines....
I definitely wouldn't be driving yours there.
Best of luck with it.
http://www.geoffsteel.co.uk/
 
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