Would you change your vote ?

[sars]

The problem lies not with the politicians, but the fact that what the public voted for,is for all intent and purpose, impossible to achieve.

And the answer why, is simple, there is no solution to Northern Ireland. A hard Brexit will result in the requirement for Southern Ireland to instigate a customs and security border between them and the UK, that will break the good Friday agreement. Any form of Brexit that is not a customs union with regulatory alignment, will also break the good Friday and yet such a deal is not Brexit, we will remain part of the EU without a seat at the table.

Politicians know this, the difference being the ones that don’t want a customs union don’t give a s**t about Northern Ireland and see them as the casualty of the EU war. May’s deal throws Northern Ireland under the bus with the back stop, in effect it’s similar to building a fence around Kent with border controls and expecting the people of Kent to vote for it

What I can’t stand is Mrs May not standing up and stating the obvious “there is no solution to Brexit without breaking the law or our democracy”

 

[ronk]

The 52 /48 OUT vote was in my opinion way close to make such a huge change - yes a majority voted out but in the real world such a close call wouldn’t be a legal mandate to take industrial action .

 

[Jembo]

The 52 /48 OUT vote was in my opinion way close to make such a huge change - yes a majority voted out but in the real world such a close call wouldn’t be a legal mandate to take industrial action .

Forget what happened, right now we need to focus on the future, not chewing the cud over the past.

We need a plan before the EU comes up with one that we’re forced into, one before we’re cast adrift or imprisoned under even worse terms because if we now remain expect heavy chains not to allow us to do Brexit ever again!

 

[PerryGunn]

...imprisoned under even worse terms because if we now remain expect heavy chains...

There, in a nutshell, is the EU approach...

 

[TitanTim]

The really sad part is were trying to leave a united Europe, one where there has been peace for over 70 years, the people and politicians of this country are simply mad. Worse thing that could happen is individual countries in Europe going their seperate ways, if this occurs its a slippery slope. In some ways I'm glad there is all this chaos now in the vain hope we don't leave. I think people simply forget the wider picture in Europe. The East must be watching this farce with interest.

I don't understand why May is trying to get the leave deal through again for a 4th time on Monday. Whats the point.

The only solution I see is Labour getting in and we all defect to Russia.

Tim.

 

[Vornwend]

The 52 /48 OUT vote was in my opinion way close to make such a huge change - yes a majority voted out but in the real world such a close call wouldn’t be a legal mandate to take industrial action .

Forget what happened, right now we need to focus on the future, not chewing the cud over the past.

We need a plan before the EU comes up with one that we’re forced into, one before we’re cast adrift or imprisoned under even worse terms because if we now remain expect heavy chains not to allow us to do Brexit ever again!

If we stay in nothing changes. Article 50 is not going to be changed as far I'm aware so any country can trigger it and leave in the future? Surely no treaty can be binding forever if a participant chooses to come out of it? I agree that if we leave and subsequently want to get bck in we will probably do so on worse terms - the rebate in particular may have to be sacrificed.

 

[ronk]

Personally, I think it destroys the tenets of democracy if you can just force another vote until you get the ‘right’ answer.

Isn’t that that just what Theresa May is doing by putting her Deal tö parliament time and time again?

 

[Vornwend]

UK has vetoes in particular areas (defence, tax, security, Euro, new members, Schengen etc etc) but honestly it doesn't worry me anyway. The vast majority of EU laws passed have been supported by successive UK governments and are an essential feature of frictionless borders and a custom union. I regard the EU as friends not enemies, many still regard them the other way around, that much is clear.

I want to be friends with EU but that does not need to be as a member of their club

Same here, something got lost in the translation from when we originally joined the common market, they started telling us what to do & fining us if we didn’t comply.
That’s not what people joined up for & “mission creep” has been gradual but relentless.
Rob

Sounds compelling when put like that but the reality is, as with so much of the misinformation put out about the EU, its just plain wrong or at best grossly exaggerated. The facts are that since 1999, regarding EU laws, the UK government has voted no on 56 occasions, abstained on 70 and voted yes 2,466 times. Of course much is agreed by consensus and in any case the working of any customs union means that all countries need to abide by the rules that facilitate free and frictionless trade from which we all benefit. Bit like this forum which also has rules - you are part of it, you agree to them.

All countries have been fined at certain points not just the UK. one of the main criticisms of the EU is that its accounts contain errors (which is true to a extent) - the fines are simply the result of many of those being corrected - Google the debacle with DEFRA and its rural farming payments if you are interested to see an example.

Mission creep - maybe but I'd rather be part of a large club that I can influence and itself has influence on the world stage than be sat on the sidelines becoming increasingly irrelevant.

 

[Vornwend]

The really sad part is were trying to leave a united Europe, one where there has been peace for over 70 years, the people and politicians of this country are simply mad. Worse thing that could happen is individual countries in Europe going their seperate ways, if this occurs its a slippery slope. In some ways I'm glad there is all this chaos now in the vain hope we don't leave. I think people simply forget the wider picture in Europe. The East must be watching this farce with interest.

I don't understand why May is trying to get the leave deal through again for a 4th time on Monday. Whats the point.

The only solution I see is Labour getting in and we all defect to Russia.

Tim.

Totally agree - apart from the defecting!

 

[firebobby]

The really sad part is were trying to leave a united Europe, one where there has been peace for over 70 years, the people and politicians of this country are simply mad. Worse thing that could happen is individual countries in Europe going their seperate ways, if this occurs its a slippery slope. In some ways I'm glad there is all this chaos now in the vain hope we don't leave. I think people simply forget the wider picture in Europe. The East must be watching this farce with interest.

I don't understand why May is trying to get the leave deal through again for a 4th time on Monday. Whats the point.

The only solution I see is Labour getting in and we all defect to Russia.

Tim.

Totally agree - apart from the defecting!

Worse still, Labour getting to power, good help us then. :thumbsdown:

 

[jabber]

Just saw a clip on the news app of a reporter saying what a cabinet member had just told him after being asked what will happen next. I quote

F**k knows past caring its like the living dead in here. 1 side of the cabinet think x is happening the other side think y is happening and May does z

The whole of parliament should all be sacked :thumbsdown:

 

[Jembo]

Just saw a clip on the news app of a reporter saying what a cabinet member had just told him after being asked what will happen next. I quote

F**k knows past caring its like the living dead in here. 1 side of the cabinet think x is happening the other side think y is happening and May does z

The whole of parliament should all be sacked :thumbsdown:

A public hanging for all MP’s if no agreement by 30th April instead might somewhat focus their attention...

 

[sp3ctre]

EU have decided to end Daylight Savings Time... one more reason to get the hell out of there!

One more reason to stay. DST is just stupid.

I agree that changing the clocks twice a year is stupid, would rather we were DST all year round. Point is, should the EU really be meddling in such things?

 

[Smartbear]

EU have decided to end Daylight Savings Time... one more reason to get the hell out of there!

One more reason to stay. DST is just stupid.

I agree that changing the clocks twice a year is stupid, would rather we were DST all year round. Point is, should the EU really be meddling in such things?

Sometimes the puppet thinks it has freedom but if you look carefully you can see all the strings.
Brussels has a lot of control over us despite protestations to the contrary.
Rob

 

[Smartbear]

The really sad part is were trying to leave a united Europe, one where there has been peace for over 70 years, the people and politicians of this country are simply mad. Worse thing that could happen is individual countries in Europe going their seperate ways, if this occurs its a slippery slope. In some ways I'm glad there is all this chaos now in the vain hope we don't leave. I think people simply forget the wider picture in Europe. The East must be watching this farce with interest.

I don't understand why May is trying to get the leave deal through again for a 4th time on Monday. Whats the point.

The only solution I see is Labour getting in and we all defect to Russia.

Tim.

We can have a united Europe without being members of the EU Tim, I seem to remember us helping Europe out in WW2 without being signed up to their club.
Rob

 

[TitanTim]

The really sad part is were trying to leave a united Europe, one where there has been peace for over 70 years, the people and politicians of this country are simply mad. Worse thing that could happen is individual countries in Europe going their seperate ways, if this occurs its a slippery slope. In some ways I'm glad there is all this chaos now in the vain hope we don't leave. I think people simply forget the wider picture in Europe. The East must be watching this farce with interest.

I don't understand why May is trying to get the leave deal through again for a 4th time on Monday. Whats the point.

The only solution I see is Labour getting in and we all defect to Russia.

Tim.

We can have a united Europe without being members of the EU Tim, I seem to remember us helping Europe out in WW2 without being signed up to their club.
Rob

I'm not so sure Rob, my thoughts are if anything this farce shows how difficult it is to have the divorce, if it had been super easy then I think other countries would have followed suit. Did we really help Europe in the last war? I thought that was the Yanks.

Tim.

 

[Smartbear]

The really sad part is were trying to leave a united Europe, one where there has been peace for over 70 years, the people and politicians of this country are simply mad. Worse thing that could happen is individual countries in Europe going their seperate ways, if this occurs its a slippery slope. In some ways I'm glad there is all this chaos now in the vain hope we don't leave. I think people simply forget the wider picture in Europe. The East must be watching this farce with interest.

I don't understand why May is trying to get the leave deal through again for a 4th time on Monday. Whats the point.

The only solution I see is Labour getting in and we all defect to Russia.

Tim.

We can have a united Europe without being members of the EU Tim, I seem to remember us helping Europe out in WW2 without being signed up to their club.
Rob

I'm not so sure Rob, my thoughts are if anything this farce shows how difficult it is to have the divorce, if it had been super easy then I think other countries would have followed suit. Did we really help Europe in the last war? I thought that was the Yanks.

Tim.

I’m pretty sure we were involved in the last world war?
If the whole of the EU imploded we would still have the organisation called NATO to keep the peace.
We don’t need the EU for that.
Rob

 

[Vornwend]

The really sad part is were trying to leave a united Europe, one where there has been peace for over 70 years, the people and politicians of this country are simply mad. Worse thing that could happen is individual countries in Europe going their seperate ways, if this occurs its a slippery slope. In some ways I'm glad there is all this chaos now in the vain hope we don't leave. I think people simply forget the wider picture in Europe. The East must be watching this farce with interest.

I don't understand why May is trying to get the leave deal through again for a 4th time on Monday. Whats the point.

The only solution I see is Labour getting in and we all defect to Russia.

Tim.

Totally agree - apart from the defecting!

Worse still, Labour getting to power, good help us then. :thumbsdown:

I'm with you there Bobby. Professor Brian Cox put it well today when he said that politicians of all colours are being dragged to the extremes in campaigns when reality pulls towards the centre. Time for something new in politics perhaps?

 

[Jembo]

...

 

[PerryGunn]

...

Clutching at straws there Jem...

It's right that the referendum wasn't binding - neither was the 1975 referendum on continued membership of the Common Market or the AV one in 2011. Because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are advisory. Unless Parliament actively agrees to bind itself to the result of a referendum, it is not legally obliged to enact the outcome.

It doesn't really matter because the government said they would would honour the results, although this was followed by the supreme court ruling in early 2017, which clarified that an act of Parliament was required before the government could trigger Article 50. The legislation was subsequently passed by Parliament - effectively binding themselves the referendum result...