Would you change your vote ?

[Nictrix]

the remain side had a national government-funded leaflet campaign to every household in their favour

Is this maybe why there were more votes to leave?
People don't trust the government so vote the other way.

 

[Jembo]

That was our once chief negotiators quotation tho!
“Once in a lifetime” was just one of many sound bites the political idiots trotted out!

Sounds like it was originated by a woman

 

[Z4C_er]

Be honest with yourself, if the remain camp had won the referendum would you be campaigning for another vote if more information came to light?

You can’t think of it the other way around. The vote was to do something unknown or maintain the status quo.

I think you could if the information that came to light was about the legitimacy of the campaign rather than statements that proved to be untrue.
Rob

But there was a concerted effort on behalf of the Government in the form of a leaflet drop to 27 million homes, which was unequivocally pro-remain.

It stated quite clearly the reasons and logic for remain, but.............

The voters made a conscious decision to leave. I will not buy the notion that voters were not well informed. Remain was pushed well and truly by the Government, but the vote was clear. It was to leave.

 

[MrPT]

You can’t think of it the other way around. The vote was to do something unknown or maintain the status quo.

I think you could if the information that came to light was about the legitimacy of the campaign rather than statements that proved to be untrue.
Rob

But there was a concerted effort on behalf of the Government in the form of a leaflet drop to 27 million homes, which was unequivocally pro-remain.

It stated quite clearly the reasons and logic for remain, but.............

The voters made a conscious decision to leave. I will not buy the notion that voters were not well informed. Remain was pushed well and truly by the Government, but the vote was clear. It was to leave.

There was a total dearth of information regarding the path of “leave”, compared to the path of “remain”. How can that be “well informed”?



That’s not to say those of us that voted leave are stupid or didn’t take the opportunity to inform themselves as best possible. Many people did a great job of thinking through the risks before voting to leave (both of my parents, for example - I was with them most of the way too!).

It’s all boiled down to a fundamental, deep-rooted divide between those that believe in the EU (in its current incarnation or a future one) and those that don’t. It’s not as if remainers paid much attention to what pro-EU politicians said during the campaign!

In hindsight, I don’t think such things should ever be decided by a marginal vote. Maybe a super majority, but nothing close to 50/50. It’s way too complex a domain - just look at all the mind games and process improvisation going on, not to mention the incalculable effects on the economy.

For what it’s worth, I’d still prefer we left with a deal now rather than have a second referendum. Just.

 

[Z4C_er]

Agree, I'm coming from the angle that the people were well informed about why they should remain, but they still chose to leave.

And if we were having a second referendum, I'd vote to leave even more. As far as I'm concerned, the EU has hardly shown itself to be our 'pals'...

And especially after seeing this:

https://youtu.be/EokwQi15pO0

 

[ronk]

Wasn’t immigration said to be one of the main drivers?

I have an old friend who bangs on about it. “To many bloody foreigners “ he keeps on telling me - I do note that he’s been very quiet about immigration since he’s had his cataract operation performed by an Egyptian surgeon and has been looked after by some nurses from th Eu.

 

[mr.tourette]

Wasn’t immigration said to be one of the main drivers?

I have an old friend who bangs on about it. “To many bloody foreigners “ he keeps on telling me - I do note that he’s been very quiet about immigration since he’s had his cataract operation performed by an Egyptian surgeon and has been looked after by some nurses from th Eu.

Classic

 

[PerryGunn]

Wasn’t immigration said to be one of the main drivers?

I have an old friend who bangs on about it. “To many bloody foreigners “ he keeps on telling me - I do note that he’s been very quiet about immigration since he’s had his cataract operation performed by an Egyptian surgeon and has been looked after by some nurses from th Eu.

The NHS doesn't rely heavily on EU staff though - only 5.6% of staff are from other EU countries. This reflects my wife's experience (she's a nurse) as she says that Asian doctors and nurses are much more common than European ones - that said, I'd expect that, unless you're very familiar with regional accents, from talking to them it would be difficult to distinguish between staff from NI and Eire.

 

[BeeEmm]

Surely a lot of 'British' people are also from India and the other countries. A more meaningful number would have to include their country of origin, otherwise it is just more useless statistics, isn't it?

 

[PerryGunn]

Surely a lot of 'British' people are also from India and the other countries. A more meaningful number would have to include their country of origin, otherwise it is just more useless statistics, isn't it?

That stats above were taken from a House of Commons briefing
The report stated 'Nationality as recorded by the NHS is self-reported, so it may sometimes reflect a person's cultural heritage rather than their citizenship or country of birth'

 

[PerryGunn]

This seems to sum up the current situation....

 

[Smartbear]

This seems to sum up the current situation....

Brexit.png

Looks straightforward to me, she just needs to take the stairs out
Rob

 

[Vornwend]

Wasn’t immigration said to be one of the main drivers?

I have an old friend who bangs on about it. “To many bloody foreigners “ he keeps on telling me - I do note that he’s been very quiet about immigration since he’s had his cataract operation performed by an Egyptian surgeon and has been looked after by some nurses from th Eu.

Ha. I agree immigration was a big issue inflamed by posters like the breaking point one and that Turkey was about to join the EU.

Leave or remain I think it was almost impossible for people to be well informed when there was/is so much misinformation and downright lies out there - that's before you move into the realm of forecasts where there is always uncertainty. Thousands of lies over 30 years - captured and debunked here https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/ if you are interested. But who has the time to research each and every one? If you are repeatedly told something then you start to believe it, especially when it comes from the media or well known politicians - who incidentally seem quite willing to change their minds at the drop of a hat - Rees-Mogg today saying he would vote for May's deal having 2 weeks ago said it was worse than staying in! These people are taking the piss and laughing at how gullible we are

I think people voted leave for several reasons but primarily to express concerns about immigration and freedom of movement, reaction to a mistrusted establishment and austerity, and a belief that the EU are our enemies

See my earlier post for my view on referendums :wink:

 

[Vornwend]

Surely a lot of 'British' people are also from India and the other countries. A more meaningful number would have to include their country of origin, otherwise it is just more useless statistics, isn't it?

That stats above were taken from a House of Commons briefing
The report stated 'Nationality as recorded by the NHS is self-reported, so it may sometimes reflect a person's cultural heritage rather than their citizenship or country of birth'

I suspect a higher % of EU workers in adult social care? Same for hospitality and agriculture?? Its a concern to these sectors because with unemployment so low we might struggle to fill vacancies (about 10% of NHS posts are vacant at the moment). I think any government will struggle to get net immigration below 100,000 per year in these circumstances but hey we voted to leave so lets see if that makes any difference.

 

[sars]

You can’t think of it the other way around. The vote was to do something unknown or maintain the status quo.

I think you could if the information that came to light was about the legitimacy of the campaign rather than statements that proved to be untrue.
Rob

But there was a concerted effort on behalf of the Government in the form of a leaflet drop to 27 million homes, which was unequivocally pro-remain.

It stated quite clearly the reasons and logic for remain, but.............

The voters made a conscious decision to leave. I will not buy the notion that voters were not well informed. Remain was pushed well and truly by the Government, but the vote was clear. It was to leave.

I don’t agree or disagree with your statement, however I firmly believe that more than 600,000 leave voters, voted to leave because they sold a lie by the ERG and the press that we would get a fantastic new deal out of the EU, which has turned out to be utter tosh and a flight of fancy. Now we see the reality that any deal we get will be significantly worse than the one we currently enjoy and we’ve become the laughing stock of the World.

 

[Nictrix]

I think you could if the information that came to light was about the legitimacy of the campaign rather than statements that proved to be untrue.
Rob

But there was a concerted effort on behalf of the Government in the form of a leaflet drop to 27 million homes, which was unequivocally pro-remain.

It stated quite clearly the reasons and logic for remain, but.............

The voters made a conscious decision to leave. I will not buy the notion that voters were not well informed. Remain was pushed well and truly by the Government, but the vote was clear. It was to leave.

I don’t agree or disagree with your statement, however I firmly believe that more than 600,000 leave voters, voted to leave because they sold a lie by the ERG and the press that we would get a fantastic new deal out of the EU, which has turned out to be utter tosh and a flight of fancy. Now we see the reality that any deal we get will be significantly worse than the one we currently enjoy and we’ve become the laughing stock of the World.

Britain has been the laughing stock of the world since waaaay before brexit :lol:

 

[buzyg]

But there was a concerted effort on behalf of the Government in the form of a leaflet drop to 27 million homes, which was unequivocally pro-remain.

It stated quite clearly the reasons and logic for remain, but.............

The voters made a conscious decision to leave. I will not buy the notion that voters were not well informed. Remain was pushed well and truly by the Government, but the vote was clear. It was to leave.

I don’t agree or disagree with your statement, however I firmly believe that more than 600,000 leave voters, voted to leave because they sold a lie by the ERG and the press that we would get a fantastic new deal out of the EU, which has turned out to be utter tosh and a flight of fancy. Now we see the reality that any deal we get will be significantly worse than the one we currently enjoy and we’ve become the laughing stock of the World.

Britain has been the laughing stock of the world since waaaay before brexit :lol:

No we were not. But we are now it's a total clusterfeck, that needs undoing if at all possible.

 

[MrPT]

I don’t agree or disagree with your statement, however I firmly believe that more than 600,000 leave voters, voted to leave because they sold a lie by the ERG and the press that we would get a fantastic new deal out of the EU, which has turned out to be utter tosh and a flight of fancy. Now we see the reality that any deal we get will be significantly worse than the one we currently enjoy and we’ve become the laughing stock of the World.

Britain has been the laughing stock of the world since waaaay before brexit :lol:

No we were not. But we are now it's a total clusterfeck, that needs undoing if at all possible.

At least Top Gear is still a global hit. Oh no wait...

 

[Jembo]

Whilst I feel we’re about to crash out without a deal, appears the rest of the world thinks we’re going to remain

- currency markets are up
- informed of new Oxford English Dictionary word added of ‘Brexiting’ by my Russian m8 in HK. ‘To tell everyone at the party you’re leaving when you’re actually staying’

 

[Spikey]

Another night of MPs saying what they don’t want ........