Why do I fear the Zed?
- Thread starter t20lau
- Start date
I think the word you're looking for is 'RESPECT'.
Hot hatches suck you in, in that they offer all this performance with no skill required, as ultimately you'll find understeer before anything else - unless you're playing with lift-off/braking oversteer.
With a powerful RWD car, you expect it to want to kill you the moment you twitch your tow.
I'm still surprised at the Z4, despite coming from 315 & 340bhp e34 M5s that had no traction control and very basic ABS - however they felt much more civilised as the throttle was not as on/off as the Z4. Everything in the Z4 engages faster than the M5s and I've still got to get used to that on the road (doesn't make any difference on the track as that's full-on mode anyway).
I got more steering 'feedback' from the M5s than I've got in the Z4MC. The M5 steering got a lot heavier as it loaded up in corners and got heavier as the speeds got higher & corners got tighter (it wasn't speed-sensitive steering either). The Z4MC steering feels the same no matter what speed or corner I'm doing - it might not be like that in reality, as it might just feel that way due to being heavier in the first place.
Hot hatches suck you in, in that they offer all this performance with no skill required, as ultimately you'll find understeer before anything else - unless you're playing with lift-off/braking oversteer.
With a powerful RWD car, you expect it to want to kill you the moment you twitch your tow.
I'm still surprised at the Z4, despite coming from 315 & 340bhp e34 M5s that had no traction control and very basic ABS - however they felt much more civilised as the throttle was not as on/off as the Z4. Everything in the Z4 engages faster than the M5s and I've still got to get used to that on the road (doesn't make any difference on the track as that's full-on mode anyway).
I got more steering 'feedback' from the M5s than I've got in the Z4MC. The M5 steering got a lot heavier as it loaded up in corners and got heavier as the speeds got higher & corners got tighter (it wasn't speed-sensitive steering either). The Z4MC steering feels the same no matter what speed or corner I'm doing - it might not be like that in reality, as it might just feel that way due to being heavier in the first place.
This being my first RWD and my first car with a decent amount of power, I'm very wary of it but a track day has definetly helped.
FWD cars can be very fun, nice and forgiving and chuckable. I just wouldn't chuck my Z4 about in the same way. It also doesn't soak up the bumps too well, which with our crappy roads doesn't help. I get the feeling that if more of our roads were nice and smooth, there would be a lot more fun to be had :evil:
I'm slowly getting there though, much more confidence with putting my foot down since I've experienced the traction control and even with braking late and having the stability control kick in (at croft) The car is much more capable than me. If I was on some roads I know a bit better though, I'd push it a bit more, which is why I'm tempted to go on a driving holiday up to Scotland this summer :driving: Loch Ness is calling me....
FWD cars can be very fun, nice and forgiving and chuckable. I just wouldn't chuck my Z4 about in the same way. It also doesn't soak up the bumps too well, which with our crappy roads doesn't help. I get the feeling that if more of our roads were nice and smooth, there would be a lot more fun to be had :evil:
I'm slowly getting there though, much more confidence with putting my foot down since I've experienced the traction control and even with braking late and having the stability control kick in (at croft) The car is much more capable than me. If I was on some roads I know a bit better though, I'd push it a bit more, which is why I'm tempted to go on a driving holiday up to Scotland this summer :driving: Loch Ness is calling me....
spokey said:
You may have a point... at high speed on the mway it's naff anyway, as I have that "sticky steering" problem, but I am wondering about the suspension too. One sprint went under warranty and another afterwards. I am going to go aftermarket if another one breaks, but cant really justify it otherwise at the moment... need to get that friggen airbag light sorted first.
senwar said:
Sorry, I missed the bit where you mentioned the 2.5. To be honest I dont find it much of an issue in the twisties, and I love getting the back end out, but it's the fast driving in a straight line that almost gives so little feedback that it feels like I'm aquaplaning.
I like the fact that mine makes me respect it.. slows me down in making decisions i probably shouldn't have been thinking of in the first place, but this i think is due to driving a second car regularly and slowing me down, something im greatful for.
the rwd thing is just the cherry on the cake tho, i go through phases of having the dsc off every drive and playing around every slowish corner / junction / hairpin so i dont get too used to it in nanny mode... all on very quiet country roads though.
all i can suggest is stick with it, we've had some crap weather of late and it will all be forgotten after a couple of thousand miles in the summer :driving:
the rwd thing is just the cherry on the cake tho, i go through phases of having the dsc off every drive and playing around every slowish corner / junction / hairpin so i dont get too used to it in nanny mode... all on very quiet country roads though.
all i can suggest is stick with it, we've had some crap weather of late and it will all be forgotten after a couple of thousand miles in the summer :driving:
Two things I would recommend are an airfield trackday or a track with a lot of runoff or just find a quiet carpark somewhere and have a play. Those are the best ways to get to grips with the limits of the cars handling. I understand the electric steering in the none m cars might make the limits a bit hard to guage but the only way you find out is by finding somewhere safe to explore them. TBH with a front engine rear drive layout you should be able to master at least the catch/recover quite easily with just a small amount of practise. Proper slides are a different ballgame though and still something I want to get to grips with (on track!)
senwar said:
Likewise... I absolutely adore it. Just need to show it respect and be aware of the situations you're driving it in (e.g. wet/snow etc) and know that it likely will bite if you drive inappropriately... which can be half the fun. I sometimes go out especially on a greasy day just to get the back end out that little bit easier.
I think a track day is in order! :driving:
There was mention a while back of a UK track day for forum members in 2009, Bedford was mentioned - is that still floating about?
I grew up with RWD cars--yep, I'm an old fart. Learned to drive in big American metal with outrageous engines. First car was a very used '63 Galaxie 500 and we lived on a dirt/gravel road. You learn to "drift" early on or you're in the ditch. Had nothing but RWD until my '93 Probe GT. I had to learn to drive FWD. I liked it-loved the car. Went back to RWD and haven't had a problem. You have to have the stones to give it some gas just past apex in a turn to really wring the fun out of one. Believe me, giving a little juice will cause it to bite and go.
Remember--FWD + Brakes = loading up the drive wheels. RWD + brakes = unloading the drive wheels...
Remember--FWD + Brakes = loading up the drive wheels. RWD + brakes = unloading the drive wheels...
You just need time to get used to driving a RWD car. When i had my first (a Z3 2,8) i took it steady for a few months learning the car, then slowly cranked it up, and eventually found the limit. I found it quite easy to control the rear end, and had fun giving it a bit every now and then. But i always showed it respect, and didnt go overboard.
csmith319 said:t20lau said:
Are you sure you're fine in a straight line? Video's suggest something different...oke:
It's not my fault the car is Sh1t!
Like I said my VXR kills the 3.0si in everyway! Dragged my VXR against a 3.0si before and the outcome was the 3.0si wasnt going anywhere and that was when the car had only 236bhp!!!
t20lau said:
I actually disagree there. I think it's plenty quick enough and the speed can be deceptive because it's so smooth!!
A few years ago I had a Honda Fireblade motorbike. 900cc and as fast as f****. I sold it and bought a Yamaha R1. 1000cc hooligans bike!! The first week or two of riding the R1 I nearly took it back to the dealers!! I could go A to B faster on my Firelbalde than I could on the R1!! The R1 just didn't corner as well and it was twitchy on the straights! Then, one day, I decided to try and find out why it felt that way!
It was quite simple in the end! The R1 was so much quicker out of bends than the Fireblade was (hence the twitchyness as the front wheel kept trying to come up so was skipping under acceleration!). This also meant at the end of any straight, I was going into the next bend way to fast (had a quick look at the speedo!), and that's why the cornering seemed so wrong!! Once I learnt how the power came in it all started to make sense! Then it was faster than the Fireblade!
The Z4 is fun to drive. It just isn't as chuckable on the road as a hot hatch so sometimes doesn't feel as much fun! :wink: It's definitely more of a challenge to drive quickly!
Mind you, don't forget your suspension isn't standard. Just might make a difference. :wink:
The one time I felt the back end go on mine was driving over a bit of black ice. I was pleasantly suprised how controllable it was. I would have to agree that the car commands respect and can't be driven in the same way as FWD cars I have had in the past. It takes more effort, but the rewards are much greater in my view! 
Maybe I'm a bit of a pussy too but a lot of the roads around here are quicker in my mum's 1.6 Honda Civic than in my Z4. The ride is so incredibly hard and British roads so incredibly crap it feels like one wrong bump and we're off into a tree. Maybe replacing the run-flats will help with that a bit.
Looking forward to finding a local track-day so I can try it out properly in relative safety.
Looking forward to finding a local track-day so I can try it out properly in relative safety.
