No criticism implied, its always a personal choice 
Why didn't M's come as Auto?
- Thread starter Stark
- Start date
There is a case for, exactly what PVR said, that I live in London, any of the time I get to hoon is when I am on a meet in the countryside, other than that, I do 250 miles a week of London driving. Ok, this morning, I did my run round Richmond town centre, a very fast blast down the Chertsey Road, and that's it. I love the DCT, but ant speak about an M, as I've never driven one. My last manual was an A4 Cab in 2002, and a TT in 03.....but since then, every other ca has been an auto. I think certain cars, newer ones, would need to be an auto, I don't think there is a single Merc you would buy in manual guise, but not necc the case with BMW.
The new M135i gets a good report in auto form, in Autotrader...
But my orig post was, I wonder why they made the decision not to do one with an M. I personally think it would have sold, and I would have bought one.
The new M135i gets a good report in auto form, in Autotrader...
But my orig post was, I wonder why they made the decision not to do one with an M. I personally think it would have sold, and I would have bought one.
exdos said:Stuart Truman said:
Buy or make a clutch stop. I didn't think it could make much of a difference but it really does work well.
Cheers exdos, sound advice. Any pointers to a commercially available one that people have tried and found good?
I'm also sure the accelerator is further away from the brake than on #69. I have (had) a pair of favourite driving shoes where if I kept the ball of my foot on the brake I could blip the throttle by rolling my foot such that the right edge pressed the accelerator. Not even close on this car. Will need to revisit/relearn a new technique as getting this right on a fast downshift under braking has to be one of the more rewarding driving experiences... (I was previously using the technique shown in that Ayrton Senna vid of him hammering an NSX on YouTube)
[youtube]8By2AEsGAhU[/youtube]
First world problems eh
I made mine out of a M10 bolt and three nuts I had lying around with the addition of a rubber stop for the end of chair leg (I had to buy a pack of 4 from Homebase and still got 3 of them left.) It's about the easiest mod you can do once you've mastered fitting stubby aerials.Stuart Truman said:
The pedals on the Z3MC and Z4MC are not very well spaced for heel&toe. You can improve things by fitting aftermarket pedals which raise the height of the accelerator pedal relative to the brake pedal.Stuart Truman said:
StevenH72 said:I don't own an ///M, but hoping that will change in the summer
But would you not use heel-toe changes for track days also?
You heel & Toe to maintain revs, whilst breaking by slipping the clutch. In the 60's & 70's the amount of power you had and the number of gears available (usually 4) meant you had to heel & toe to exit a corner quickly. Modern cars with 6 gears makes it less useful, now you should be in the right gear as you enter the corner using all that torque to help power out without the clutch slipping
pvr said:
That's why you have a rev counter
Stuart Truman said:
They also don't use automatics.
Remember: an automatic transmission is the one that is fitted with a torque converter.
F1 and motorsports in general use semi automatic (that is SMG (single clutch style) or DTC (dual clutch style)) or Sequential manuals (motorbike style with or without clutch).
Never an automatic or manumatic (automatic gearbox where you can select gears like porsche tiptronic, but still with torque converter).
It's generally the torque converter with it's fluid loss and high inertia and the hydraulic pump to operate the gearbox that are responsible for the poor performance of automatics and manumatics.
I think this the rub, it all really boils down to personal preference, twin clutches are very accomplished but I just find them a little bit boring as they do it all for you & I will agree the odd time I've used the paddles in the TT it is good fun but I can't leave my manual box love alone!Stuart Truman said:LeeZ4MR said:Interesting Stu, what makes everyone want the DCT? I never ever considered it in my M3 & I have drove one with DCT it just had to be a manual for meStuart Truman said:
Is it just modern times & I am stuck in the old days!
Purely personal choice. I had modified DSG in a highly tuned golf and loved it. Fast and smooth changes as needed. A friend has the PDK option in his C2S and again, its great.
If the box isn't intrusive, or laggy or over-riding the driver when in manual mode then why not? I've driven some dire autos before, so understand the dislike, but a well sorted twin clutch box is awesome
That said, I'm loving the driving experience in IMmie.
Edited to make clear the manual mode part after reading SARS' comment
I love my auto box in manual mode. Not as fast as I'd like, but faster than me with a little anticipation - which you need when 'on it' because of the slight delay, so you are still involved with the changes.
Someone said above that the auto won't hit the limiter... In manual shift and sport on mine it will redline. What it won't let you do is over-rev, so it will change eventually if you don't. I don't find that it changes without me wanting to when in manual and sport, unless I do something stupid... Like take off and forget it's in manual
As said, it is a personal choice. Unless I can have 3 cars by the time I get an ///M though I may be regretting it as I will have to use it every day
Someone said above that the auto won't hit the limiter... In manual shift and sport on mine it will redline. What it won't let you do is over-rev, so it will change eventually if you don't. I don't find that it changes without me wanting to when in manual and sport, unless I do something stupid... Like take off and forget it's in manual
As said, it is a personal choice. Unless I can have 3 cars by the time I get an ///M though I may be regretting it as I will have to use it every day
You can heel and toe in the Z4M....
You do need to roll your foot off the side of the brake pedal quite a way,but with practicing your technique it will become easier..
With a clutch you can also control the amount of engine braking that is achieved,dont know if that is achievable with auto/DSG etc etc ?
You do need to roll your foot off the side of the brake pedal quite a way,but with practicing your technique it will become easier..
With a clutch you can also control the amount of engine braking that is achieved,dont know if that is achievable with auto/DSG etc etc ?
Having lived in the states for six years with most cars being auto it's nice to get back in a manual so much more control droping a gear into the bends the right foot hard downmakes you feel at one with the car and makes for a true drivers car ,can't understand why any one would won't auto in a M car
I've been round oulton park many times in 911 s,in November my freind took be round in his turbo( auto ) it felt like driving miss daisy compared to the manuals I've been in
It's just personal taste at the end of the day
I've been round oulton park many times in 911 s,in November my freind took be round in his turbo( auto ) it felt like driving miss daisy compared to the manuals I've been in
It's just personal taste at the end of the day
Sure automatics can change gear far faster than any of us can do, and if you're doing ordinary travelling in a car, rather than "driving", it relieves you of a lot of effort in changing gear, especially in stop-start traffic.
For me there are three main differences of driving with an automatic when compared to a manual box. 1. changing gear and braking initiate squatting and pitching, which obviously affects the longitudinal/lateral balance of the car, therefore I can use the load shifting which occurs, particularly for cornering, that forms a big part of driving technique (mine at least). 2. To effect those dynamic load changes, timing of gear selection coupled with braking and acceleration is a co-ordinated action on my part with a manual gearbox, but with an automatic, the timing of the gear selection is outside of my control and may not coincide with the exact time when I might want the appropriate gear change/load shift. 3. I can freely choose between short-shifting and using high rpms as I think fit in anticipation of what I'm going to do next as per my reading of the road/track ahead, so I can already select my lower gear for faster acceleration whilst having to wait before that opportunity to accelerate presents itself i.e. overtaking. For me, driving well is all about keeping the car balanced and these three things must be under my control for my proprioception to function properly, but it may be different for others.
For me there are three main differences of driving with an automatic when compared to a manual box. 1. changing gear and braking initiate squatting and pitching, which obviously affects the longitudinal/lateral balance of the car, therefore I can use the load shifting which occurs, particularly for cornering, that forms a big part of driving technique (mine at least). 2. To effect those dynamic load changes, timing of gear selection coupled with braking and acceleration is a co-ordinated action on my part with a manual gearbox, but with an automatic, the timing of the gear selection is outside of my control and may not coincide with the exact time when I might want the appropriate gear change/load shift. 3. I can freely choose between short-shifting and using high rpms as I think fit in anticipation of what I'm going to do next as per my reading of the road/track ahead, so I can already select my lower gear for faster acceleration whilst having to wait before that opportunity to accelerate presents itself i.e. overtaking. For me, driving well is all about keeping the car balanced and these three things must be under my control for my proprioception to function properly, but it may be different for others.
Had BMW offered an auto SMG Z4M I'm sure it would have sold well. Plenty of 'M' drivers prefer their gearbox to make decisions for them.
I suppose it is all part of 'progress'. Loads of electronics, auto boxes and turbo engines. The Z4M was the last of the 'simple' 'M's. The E92 M3 will also be loved as the last N/A engined 'M'. That fabulous V8 will appear in nothing else (unless a new Z4M is made!!!)
I suppose it is all part of 'progress'. Loads of electronics, auto boxes and turbo engines. The Z4M was the last of the 'simple' 'M's. The E92 M3 will also be loved as the last N/A engined 'M'. That fabulous V8 will appear in nothing else (unless a new Z4M is made!!!)
Z4M-2006 said:
This is a good point (as are exdos'). You can engine brake with an auto in manual mode, but I'll admit it is very imprecise, quite a blunt instrument approach if done at the wrong time, with the car potentially unbalancing violently.
Conversations like this do make me miss a manual a wee bit...
The thing is Bing,on fast downshifts especially in wet and damp conditions you can feather the clutch pedal at its bite point so the car doesnt pitch heavily(or lock rear wheels) into the corner...
With Auto clutch(DSG etc) its either in or out,no middle ground... Not good for car control :thumbsdown:
With Auto clutch(DSG etc) its either in or out,no middle ground... Not good for car control :thumbsdown: