Why didn't M's come as Auto?
- Thread starter Stark
- Start date
I don't intend to ever have an Auto until it becomes impossible to buy a manual.
I've driven lots of Autos/DCT and have never, ever liked one of them.
Auto in a Z4MC? Sacrilege in my opinion. The thought of the M3/4 being available only in DCT i find a horrible thought.
I've driven lots of Autos/DCT and have never, ever liked one of them.
Auto in a Z4MC? Sacrilege in my opinion. The thought of the M3/4 being available only in DCT i find a horrible thought.
Interesting and fairly consistent opinion against auto. I've not driven an SMG box so don't know how true it is to a proper sequential box. Does it stay in gear even if you bog it down or hit the rev limiter? (DSG will over-ride on the limiter or lower end)
Personally, if I do go M3 it will be with DCT
Personally, if I do go M3 it will be with DCT
Any idea on E46 numbers with SMG vs manual? It might shed some light on why the Z4M was only manual. Either way, its a great car. It'll be a whole lot better when I've got used to the clutch bite point. The pedals are also spaced differently so I can't heel and toe like I was able to in #69
LeeZ4MR said:Interesting Stu, what makes everyone want the DCT? I never ever considered it in my M3 & I have drove one with DCT it just had to be a manual for meStuart Truman said:
Is it just modern times & I am stuck in the old days!
Purely personal choice. I had modified DSG in a highly tuned golf and loved it. Fast and smooth changes as needed. A friend has the PDK option in his C2S and again, its great.
If the box isn't intrusive, or laggy or over-riding the driver when in manual mode then why not? I've driven some dire autos before, so understand the dislike, but a well sorted twin clutch box is awesome
That said, I'm loving the driving experience in IMmie.
Edited to make clear the manual mode part after reading SARS' comment
Getting to this conversation late and I'm going to agree with both arguments and add another that for me is the crunch.
Using Inkey$ analogue analogy, what makes it analogue is the manual intervention of changing gear and having complete and utter control over it. It is you that controls when and at what revolutions to change, be it early or late or perfect its your choice.
This is where the argument falls down for me, unless we are talking slush type boxes, but for DSG, S-Tronic, DCT and PDk there IS a manual button. Owners of these types of boxes become lazy and let the auto do auto, because most of the time its easier to do so and yes they become boring. But remember YOU can become the control mechanism again and it become analogue to a point (it won't let you over rev, which is a good thing imo) and so the only difference for me is.
Launch control, I hate it, yes it's fun but playstation fun. For me one of the best part of a sports car is being able to go from the lights, judging revs so that I dont look like a complete muppet screeching down the road in tyre smoke, but leaving the rep in his 320d for dust with a perfectly timed manual change and then the smile that comes with perfection.......I really miss that
Using Inkey$ analogue analogy, what makes it analogue is the manual intervention of changing gear and having complete and utter control over it. It is you that controls when and at what revolutions to change, be it early or late or perfect its your choice.
This is where the argument falls down for me, unless we are talking slush type boxes, but for DSG, S-Tronic, DCT and PDk there IS a manual button. Owners of these types of boxes become lazy and let the auto do auto, because most of the time its easier to do so and yes they become boring. But remember YOU can become the control mechanism again and it become analogue to a point (it won't let you over rev, which is a good thing imo) and so the only difference for me is.
Launch control, I hate it, yes it's fun but playstation fun. For me one of the best part of a sports car is being able to go from the lights, judging revs so that I dont look like a complete muppet screeching down the road in tyre smoke, but leaving the rep in his 320d for dust with a perfectly timed manual change and then the smile that comes with perfection.......I really miss that
All i can say Re smg is that is a poor gearbox... slow and cumbersome, it simply isnt evenin the same stratopshere as twin clutch unit.... But thats just evolution, the last of the line SMG in the e60 m5/m6 was OK, just OK......
The PDK , DCT, in manual mode does not change up for you, your on your own........ you can clatter the limiter all day! Thye definitely add another dimension to the driving experience, but a properly driven manual imo is just a quick...... and a hell of alot more involving.... DCTs cary alot more weight as well
The PDK , DCT, in manual mode does not change up for you, your on your own........ you can clatter the limiter all day! Thye definitely add another dimension to the driving experience, but a properly driven manual imo is just a quick...... and a hell of alot more involving.... DCTs cary alot more weight as well
further more, the bmw options for an automatic at that time (the zf tranny) is really not suited to handle power in the region of 350bhp. Developping a stronger automatic for the 10.000 or so z4m's that would have sold with an automatic..... how much is one willing to spend? :lol:Z4M-2006 said:
An observation/question:
Assuming F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport and Motorsport engineering, why haven't they stayed with manual gearboxes?
Assuming F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport and Motorsport engineering, why haven't they stayed with manual gearboxes?
Stuart Truman said:
I don't think anybody is questioning that auto boxes are now more efficient and quicker.
It's more a question of what brings a driver the most pleasurable experience.
In my opinion what we are discussing is an issue of subjectivity rather than fact or statistic.
That is exactly the point. F1 is all about the fastest change etc and that can not be achieved with a manual box.I would not want a manual go-kart for example as it would be too involved in that type of driving, pretty similar to F1 in that aspect.
As I said a while back - it is about personal choice. I have all 3 types of gear boxes and they are all ideal in their own environment.
But for a nice country lane experience, the manual box is just great. I glance sometimes to check to see what gear I am in just to make sure I am ready for an overtake or so, or a sharp bend. The whole operation of getting the gear change done in time, get the clutch ready etc is just part of the experience. In my DCT box, it just becomes a press of a button. I won't even mention roundabouts as the DCT box in full manual mode still makes a complete pigs ear of it.
As I said a while back - it is about personal choice. I have all 3 types of gear boxes and they are all ideal in their own environment.
But for a nice country lane experience, the manual box is just great. I glance sometimes to check to see what gear I am in just to make sure I am ready for an overtake or so, or a sharp bend. The whole operation of getting the gear change done in time, get the clutch ready etc is just part of the experience. In my DCT box, it just becomes a press of a button. I won't even mention roundabouts as the DCT box in full manual mode still makes a complete pigs ear of it.