Where would you/did you go from an M?

He E92 is not a better car in every way. In fact I think it's probably on the more away from the M3 recipe side of the scale. It's big heavy and not like an M3 at all. Don't get me wrong it's a good car just not a great car. The engine is sublime, but the size weight and even looks... Like I said had an e46 for 3 years e92 for 3 years and the Z4M for 3 years. No doubt the e92 is the quickest, but it does have the edgy sharp turn in the e86 and e46 does it's more like an American muscle car because it was designed for the American market. The e46 does everything well, and is like a go kart. The e86 is also a brilliant car but in standard guise the e46 handles better less understeer and less skitish but the e86 is no doubt the best looking and most special car. Depends what you want. The Z4M was always a very niche market most people when they came out didn't understand why you would spend the same money for a worse handling smaller 2 seater with a roof and bought the M3. Takes a very specific need or want for the Z4M coupe. Now 3-4 years ago they were bargain basement M cars few mods and they are sublime motors. Now they are becoming more a cult classic. I absolutely loved mine best looking car and there's not much that it can't keep up with in fact has the same time round Nuremberg as the lambo gallardo mk1. Impressive motor. The E46 slightly heavier and slightly slower but like a go kart so easy to stick the back end out so much fun and feels so involved to drive. The e92 is a little more disconnected in that respect but in a straight line will murder both. Problem is that high revving engine it's impossible to get up to the 6500-8000 because in second your already loosing your licence so hard to work on the road and gets murdered mid range by hot hatches. But when you put your foot down the power just never ends its pulls and pulls and pulls! Incredible engine. Wish they had used it in more than one car, seems like such an oversight. So it depends what you want the M3s are not sports cars they are fast saloons. The Z4M is a typical sports car two seats big engine big bonnet and you sit well back over the rear axel. The M3s make great dailies the e46 is slower but more fun in the twisties and the e92 great in a straight line. The E86 is the rarest, best looking and most special car imo but is more a weekend car although if your a single bloke or only have two people then it can be a great daily too. Sort the suspension and its the best bang for buck money can buy atm. Well it was, like I said the cars are now in worse condition and 3 years older than when I bought mine and looking at 2k more. Depressing how many poor examples are demanding high money.
 
Not when you want another... They might be high priced but who's going to buy them! People aren't stupid.
 
tomscott said:
Not when you want another... They might be high priced but who's going to buy them! People aren't stupid.
Tom, at least all the Z4MCs are S54 models, so you have a wider choice even if many of them are showing signs of heavy use. If you want a low mileage S54 Z3MC there's now little choice and they'll cost you when they come on the market.
 
JayEmm said:
Likewise with engines - as you say Lee, make a high-revving "M" engine and everyone goes "oh, it's got bags of character, but no low down torque"... make it torquey "well it isn't fizzy at the top end like the old engines"

The reality is with the last M3 there were probably a lot of people who would have actually preferred the 335i, but I guess couldn't not have an M.

This is the heart of the issue with the previous and current M3/4. Most people have a preference - either forced induction because of the torque (prepared to trade off high rev antics for instant (or near instant) maximum accelerative force) or normally aspirated, because they love the linear nature of the power delivery (i.e. They want the accelerative force to feel greater in proportion with the rise in with engine revs). There's not much of a happy medium.
 
exdos said:
tomscott said:
Not when you want another... They might be high priced but who's going to buy them! People aren't stupid.
Tom, at least all the Z4MCs are S54 models, so you have a wider choice even if many of them are showing signs of heavy use. If you want a low mileage S54 Z3MC there's now little choice and they'll cost you when they come on the market.

That's a good point and I really can't see Z4MC prices climbing significantly any time soon. I don't think they'll fall a great deal, but good low mileage examples won't consistently break the £20k barrier for some time.
 
StevenH72 said:
exdos said:
tomscott said:
Not when you want another... They might be high priced but who's going to buy them! People aren't stupid.
Tom, at least all the Z4MCs are S54 models, so you have a wider choice even if many of them are showing signs of heavy use. If you want a low mileage S54 Z3MC there's now little choice and they'll cost you when they come on the market.

That's a good point and I really can't see Z4MC prices climbing significantly any time soon. I don't think they'll fall a great deal, but good low mileage examples won't consistently break the £20k barrier for some time.

Yep, it's an interesting point too....I wonder how long that £30k one will be on sale at Hexagon for? Are they a better/more desirable car than a similar age and mileage 997.1 C2S...?
 
One thing I have learned is you would be a wally to apply logic to car prices.

We live in an age of million-pound F40s, £60k Porsche 993s (not even just Turbos), TVRs that cost more than when they were new (Sagaris) and V10 M6s being £15k.... nothing makes much sense.

The Z4MC is a rare car and that will help it.I don't think it will ever be quite as special as a Ferrari but considering the prices of the cheaper Ferraris have now gone through the roof, people are looking for alternatives.

355 prices rising brought 348 prices up, the same will happen with the Z3MC and Z4MC, although to a lesser extent I imagine
 
@JayEmm we do indeed live in strange times, remember when 993s and 964 were 8K!! The Z4M has remained steady and reasonable consistent - you get what you pay for condition wise. In some cases a little ambitious But if I was on the hunt again probably would pay closer to 20k for decent example and I'm sure there will be more like me in years to come!!
 
Was the 993 ever 8K? Pretty sure the 964 was. Everyone seems to be revising their opinion on the 996 now that a 964 isn't cheap anymore.

Same with the 348 - nobody wanted to touch one with a barge pole when a 355 was £35k... now they're twice that suddenly the 348 is a "lost gem".
 
Re: 993 late 90s high mileage in an off colour maybe....but 348 remember how much of a pig they were unreliability etc and now as you say 'lost gem' cant believe what I'm reading about 996s folks forget they were made at a time when Porsche were saving pennies and trying to rebuild a broken brand...
 
JayEmm said:
One thing I have learned is you would be a wally to apply logic to car prices.

We live in an age of million-pound F40s, £60k Porsche 993s (not even just Turbos), TVRs that cost more than when they were new (Sagaris) and V10 M6s being £15k.... nothing makes much sense.
I love the way you think and your car knowledge/experience is something I really appreciate :thumbsup:

It has always baffled me too in the way the Sagaris went because this was a company that was renowned for making unreliable cars that most people didn't like yet the Sag turned out to be a massive hit and the prices have just ended up rocketing, then on the other hand I remember the first time I saw a M6 in the metal and I was just in awe of it in terms of its performance/cost/engine and the trick carbon roof yet they are now worth very little money so it just doesn't make much sense at all and its hard to get your head around.
 
If there was a fix for the smg box what a car the m6/m5 would be! But it may be that it turns out to be its Achilles heal.....just like the Z4M has its handling..."character"
 
Fast3000 said:
If there was a fix for the smg box what a car the m6/m5 would be! But it may be that it turns out to be its Achilles heal.....just like the Z4M has its handling..."character"
You make a fair point on both counts for me. :thumbsup:
 
My dad is trying to sell his 991 997.1 fully loaded 57 20k turbo wheels struggling to get 30k for it. Worth more to keep but hes found this

WP0ZZZ99ZCS712092@15_w616_x_h462_d811d1bf-1861-44b2-b8f2-32ff6e3cf239.jpg


WP0ZZZ99ZCS712092@4_w616_x_h462_7e2f5a93-4223-42fa-8506-0148934459ce.jpg


:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

Going to look at it this sat, will probs end up buying it depending on trade in. Would have the 997 off him in a heartbeat if i could afford it its imaculate. If you thought mine was immaculate should see this thing almost brand new hell of a car.

1488744_626139312493_608338444_n.jpg


10268605_1374841562802047_4116669679409089740_n.jpg


The 997.2 is heading the same way many 991s are around 60k now the 997.2 GTS is nothing but skyward or staying where it is.
 
I'm sporting massive wood for the new Mk7 Golf R. Not available with 6MT in the states until MY 2016, late this summer. Would love to figure out acceptable financing to allow me to keep the Z4MC and replace the ZHP with one.
 
Fast3000 said:
If there was a fix for the smg box what a car the m6/m5 would be! But it may be that it turns out to be its Achilles heal.....just like the Z4M has its handling..."character"

Pretty sure most of us would say the same.

HOWEVER, I do believe the E60 M5 WAS sold with a manual box in the USA... for whatever reason apparently they had to offer it over there to coax certain buyers. EVO went over there and admitted after saying for a long time "How good would this be with a manual etc..." that actually the manual wasn't much stick and the SMG with 7 ratios probably did suit the car better.

@Lee

If a Sagaris was £25k still, I'd have one in a heartbeat. I've seen one, it is gorgeous, stunning car. BUT underneath is it really that different to a £20K Tuscan? I'm not sure it is, and the Sagaris roof is stuck on, which kills it for me.

@Fast3000

The 996 is a great car, I am definitely biased by having had one and loving it. 8000 trouble free miles (car had done 72K when I bought it, 80 when I sold it - no history of engine rebuild etc). The interior is hardly the last word in refinement or luxury, but neither is a 997.1 by today's standards. Having driven a 996 GT3 I thought the C4 was probably a better car for the roads I drove and the things I did with the car (never tracked it) - the state of roads around here and the liberal attitudes of farmers cleaning up the mess they make mean coming round some corners at speed with no TC and 2WD would seem very silly if you were unlucky. That said, I couldn't be a hooligan like I can with the Zed :)
 
James I see where your coming from about the 996s. For years I lusted over Turbos and C4S widebody versions. Strangly I kind liked the facelift headlights which many Porsche purists hated!! Even today they still look cool. For me its the interior which hasn't aged well and the horror stories.....but I guess its like anything - you hear more about the bad stuff then the good!
 
The plain car looks a little dull, mine had a few additions....

16llgjs.jpg


I had a 993 alongside this for a while (good times) and it really felt like there was a lot more than 3 years between them. You'd have easily said there was at least another generation of car between them.

You gotta feel for the engineers at Porsche. The Boxster and the 996 saved the company, but it required changes so big I don't think anyone was going to love the 996 - like electric steering in the 991 I think people "pre-hated".

The 996 interior does get a lot of stick but, you know what, it isn't the highest quality interior ever put in a sports car but it is miles better than the 993's - which just looks like someone sneezed the dials and buttons everywhere. It made no sense, at all.

My 993...

mkf7ys.jpg
 
The list of "common" problems I had with my 993 (It was not in good nick when I got it, but none of these are unusual problems):

Door check strap bust on driver's side
Rust on several areas
about 75% of the wheel nuts sheared and exploded when I removed them (they are aluminium and not very strong)
Interior light sometimes worked, sometimes didn't
The immobilser receptacle had to be replaced
The boot carpet was impossible to put in neatly
Servicing it was a mare (12 spark plugs, half of which need some of the exhaust off to get to)
Targa roof blind fell apart (although this was due to a previous bodged repair)
Washer jets needed motivating sometimes
Among many other things I have probably now forgotten about.... they are not bomb-proof/bullet-proof/perfect cars. At all.
 
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