Where would you/did you go from an M?

[TomK]

Tom do you have a dyno prinout from your car, do you know what power it is making? Do the Shrick cams make it a bit peakier?

Pretty much the only thing I really enjoyed about the 993 was the step-change in power around 3,000-3,500 rpm when it came on cam - it wasn't exactly fast even then but it felt like a big change. VANOS etc... does a great job of making very fast cars feel rather slow

I don't have the graphs to hand, will post them when back with them mid week. It made 368 iirc on a dyno which I have fairly good reference points for with other s54s. The cams have made at least 12bhp over a stock s54 with csl airbox. The Csl box and associated map gives on average over 15/20 bhp over a fully stock engine.
The Schricks to me are only really noticeable from 6k ish where the engine now really seems to fly, otherwise below this the curve is very similar to stock, I.e. straight.
Agree, the linearity of the acceleration of these engines sometimes makes you feel they are not as powerful as they really are. Trick is to use the full reach of the revs.

 

[TomK]

Looking at the cost of the Schrick Cams and the necessary bits to go with it it seems like an awful lot of expense for very minimal gains, but assume I'm missing something?

No they are not cheap and to most probably not worth it. The airbox and map I would say definitely is.

 

[JayEmm]

Was that 368 at the flywheel? Still pretty damn good for a 3.2L NA.

I would definitely consider the CSL airbox, for the sound more than anything. I've only taken the car to the redline once and given the speed you're carrying when doing that in anything other than 1st or 2nd I'm not worried about more power!

 

[Paulwirral]

The ones that haven't driven a slk 55 amg and have dismissed it as an old ladies car , try one , or try a gtr if you need to go fast , there really isn't much quicker point to point without training , and if you take training you'll know the real worth of an mx5

Ref my comments on the SLK, it wasn't about whether it's a good car (my missus test drove a 350 and said it was surprisingly very good)....it's more the market Mercedes play to with it (slightly middle ageing women) and the social stigma of driving a car like that. There are two very nice 55's in my gym carpark, both driven by the slightly older lady. Wonder what total % of buyers are women 95%...? Ref the Black series, that's just a marketing exercise by Mercedes. Who really bought one ?

Happy to be flamed about it, but I'm surely not the only one on here who wouldn't even consider buying one....???

Nothing wrong with the older lady , especially the ones that drive tasty cars in the gym car park , probably teach the young guns on here a few things

 

[tomscott]

MILF MILF MILF!!!

 

[Angelus666]

haha...to be fair they are both pretty hot looking milf's...maybe I'll get chatting to them next time I see them about their 55's and I'll report back on my findings!

 

[Paulwirral]

It would be strange if you posted back about a good ride in slk :topicclosed:

 

[tomscott]

Good lad

 

[LeeZ4MR]

That was the point.....

The mx5 thrilled with so little power. With one of the turbo kits bolted On they are serious things. We are in a place now where high end turbo and supercharger kits are like oem fitments. Power was never the mx5s problem it was narrow minded people in their tvrs and bmws looking down their snout at it....

Bloody brilliant cars. One of the best drivers cars of the last decade for bang for buck. Slap on a turbo kit and it would reliably spank your cerb all day long and be more fun doing it.

Point taken but as with any car some like them and some don't and thankfully they offer different cars for different tastes.

oh trust me i hear what your saying BUT.... big but... the fundamentals/ingredients of the mx5 should resonate with ANY true petrolhead, your comment about it being a poser car says alot to me, what the hell is poser about a sub 14k mazda roadster with a 1.8 engine that doesn't even look that good????....

The issue for me is some owners think that they are the bees knees though, I even had an old boy take me on at the lights in my V8 M3(I shouldn't blame him really because the M3 is a barge) but that's just embarrassing and I left him for dead even in a lardy 3 series with just a nice engine and body kit and that is an example of why I think they are a posers car with all mouth and no trousers.

I respect that they are a light weight RWD drivers car on paper but as standard they just don't excite me personally one bit, maybe a blast in a turbo version could change my mind though.

 

[LeeZ4MR]

my mom had 650i and it was no-where near as quick as the z4m and the s54 is in another league to the very ordinary v8 power plant found in the 6 series.

The auto boxes blunt them and they are nowhere near as "special" as an S54, but they are not engines to be sniffed at.

Don't forget they are torquier than an E92 M3 in a package that actually weighs a similar amount. What they are missing is the top-end rush of an M motor, and the soundtrack.

Edit: BMW 650i = 367hp @ 6300rpm, 360ft lb @ 3400 rpm, weight approx 1700 KG in coupe form

E92 M3 = 414bhp @ 8300 rpm, 295 ft lb @ 3900 rpm, weight approx 1600kg in coupe form

That's 20% more torque for about 5% more weight

I agree and for me the V8 4.8 in my old X5 is still my personal favourite engine that I have owned and don't get me wrong it wasn't fast at all because of its weight but I thought it was very smooth and had a great sound and it actually had some torque...on the other hand the V8 in my M3 drove me mad because nothing happened below 6k revs and you had to cane the life out of it to make it feel fast and BMW just forgot to give the engine any torque.

They have given the M4 plenty of torque now though and that struggles to put its power down so you just cant win really, so different engines just suit different people I think.

 

[JayEmm]

They have given the M4 plenty of torque now though and that struggles to put its power down so you just cant win really, so different engines just suit different people I think.

Exactly. I often wonder if Porsche hadn't told any journos that the new 911 has electric steering, how many would have picked up on it?

It might not have been as feelsome as the 997 (I have driven neither a 997 or 991 to know) but I wonder if many would have driven 200 yards and gone "This steering is ELECTRIC! Be gone Satan!"

Likewise with engines - as you say Lee, make a high-revving "M" engine and everyone goes "oh, it's got bags of character, but no low down torque"... make it torquey "well it isn't fizzy at the top end like the old engines"

The reality is with the last M3 there were probably a lot of people who would have actually preferred the 335i, but I guess couldn't not have an M.

 

[LeeZ4MR]

They have given the M4 plenty of torque now though and that struggles to put its power down so you just cant win really, so different engines just suit different people I think.

Exactly. I often wonder if Porsche hadn't told any journos that the new 911 has electric steering, how many would have picked up on it?

It might not have been as feelsome as the 997 (I have driven neither a 997 or 991 to know) but I wonder if many would have driven 200 yards and gone "This steering is ELECTRIC! Be gone Satan!"

Likewise with engines - as you say Lee, make a high-revving "M" engine and everyone goes "oh, it's got bags of character, but no low down torque"... make it torquey "well it isn't fizzy at the top end like the old engines"

The reality is with the last M3 there were probably a lot of people who would have actually preferred the 335i, but I guess couldn't not have an M.

Yes it is a tough one because don't get me wrong the M3 from 6k revs to 8400rpm is highly enjoyable and it really does get a shift on then,but now I have experienced a car in the 640d with an abundance of low down torque there is plenty of low down punch but just no reward as it just gets on and does it and makes the engine in the M3 seem very characterful.

I would imagine the M4 to be a bit like a big diesel to drive with all low down pull and not much on the top end and it seems no matter what BMW offer some of us will moan and I include myself it that so its been a case of be careful what you wish for with the new M4.

 

[JayEmm]

What I do like with my motors is having something "in reserve"... I have driven quite a few diesels that feel like they're pretty sprightly in daily driving. Then, when it comes time to play and I bury my foot I find that what it was giving me was actually everything that it had.

It's something I do enjoy with revvy motors like the Z4 M - it is perfectly quick enough below 5,000rpm for most driving, but if I need everything - hold on and have fun I remember that the first time I gunned a 355 - thought surely I have to change up now, looked down and there was another 2000rpm to go before the redline.... mmmm :exitright:

 

[Angelus666]

It's an interesting thread...so, are we summarising by saying that it's very difficult to replace the Z for the same money they are selling at right now.

Given the chance, who would do a straight swap for a decent e92....? I know it's a better car in every way, but I value the rarity of the MC, so honestly I don't think I would.

 

[Stark]

It's an interesting thread...so, are we summarising by saying that it's very difficult to replace the Z for the same money they are selling at right now.

Given the chance, who would do a straight swap for a decent e92....? I know it's a better car in every way, but I value the rarity of the MC, so honestly I don't think I would.

No we are saying that a Ford Street Ka is the next best thing

 

[LeeZ4MR]

What I do like with my motors is having something "in reserve"... I have driven quite a few diesels that feel like they're pretty sprightly in daily driving. Then, when it comes time to play and I bury my foot I find that what it was giving me was actually everything that it had.

It's something I do enjoy with revvy motors like the Z4 M - it is perfectly quick enough below 5,000rpm for most driving, but if I need everything - hold on and have fun I remember that the first time I gunned a 355 - thought surely I have to change up now, looked down and there was another 2000rpm to go before the redline.... mmmm :exitright:

I always felt very similar to that with my TVR because it always felt pretty quick without really caning it but you knew when you fancied revving it to the redline(only 7500rpm though) it would just go ballistic and I always felt I had a little "in reserve" with that.

As you say a diesel has only one hand and that's short and sharp and if anything the 640d has made me appreciate the 330i more because although it isn't a quick car there is more reward from just working the engine not to mention a far better sound too.

You are making me want another quick car again!

 

[JayEmm]

It's an interesting thread...so, are we summarising by saying that it's very difficult to replace the Z for the same money they are selling at right now.

Given the chance, who would do a straight swap for a decent e92....? I know it's a better car in every way, but I value the rarity of the MC, so honestly I don't think I would.

Are you talking about the E92 M3?

If so I would definitely consider it, but I would need to have a good drive of one. I love the look of them, but I worry that they would be too large to enjoy on the roads around me and I wonder if the lower torque-weight ratio would mean it feels slower than the Z4 in daily driving.

However, I don't think it might ever feel as "special" as the Zed, and as I don't need (or want in a second car) back seats, the M3 seems a tad unnecessary.

In Melbourne Red though, with a sports exhaust... mmm...

 

[Bing]

It's something I do enjoy with revvy motors like the Z4 M - it is perfectly quick enough below 5,000rpm for most driving, but if I need everything - hold on and have fun I remember that the first time I gunned a 355 - thought surely I have to change up now, looked down and there was another 2000rpm to go before the redline.... mmmm :exitright:

This is something that constantly surprises and delights me about the S54. Like you, I rarely break 5,000 RPM most of the time - it's just not necessary day-to-day except for maybe quick overtaking. One of my mates, an ex 3.0 Z owner, couldn't believe what I was saying when I told him this, but quickly understood when I took him out in it. It's great having another 3,000 RPM 'for fun'... Or for 'positively asserting your road presence' when necessary :evil:

It's also ace that those 3,000 RPM sound completely different to the first 5,000 8)

 

[LeeZ4MR]

It's an interesting thread...so, are we summarising by saying that it's very difficult to replace the Z for the same money they are selling at right now.

Given the chance, who would do a straight swap for a decent e92....? I know it's a better car in every way, but I value the rarity of the MC, so honestly I don't think I would.

Are you talking about the E92 M3?

If so I would definitely consider it, but I would need to have a good drive of one. I love the look of them, but I worry that they would be too large to enjoy on the roads around me and I wonder if the lower torque-weight ratio would mean it feels slower than the Z4 in daily driving.

However, I don't think it might ever feel as "special" as the Zed, and as I don't need (or want in a second car) back seats, the M3 seems a tad unnecessary.

In Melbourne Red though, with a sports exhaust... mmm...

I have had both and the E92 M3 does feel heavy and numb at slow speeds but strangely when you grab it by the scruff of the neck it does feel pretty nimble for its size when you blast around back roads, for me they need a bit of modding to make the best of them the brakes don't cope well and the noise in standard form is a let down and when pottering its just like being in any other 3 series which bugged me.

You are spot on regards the Z4M feeling far more special though and being sat over the rear wheels and it only having two seats really adds to the appeal of them.

 

[JayEmm]

The view out the Z4 is very special too - that long bonnet

I was very disappointed when I sat in an Aston that I couldn't see the bonnet at all, just like in my six series - huge bonnet totally wasted

My main gripe with the 645 was always that it never sounded like I had a 4.4l V8 under the bonnet until I was thrashing it, and even then it was a bit quiet. I don't think it would have hurt them to make it a little more vocal, but then I guess the businessmen cruising on the autobahn need to be able to have a conversation at the 155mph limiter.

One of my reasons for not wanting to buy a Cerbera (as tempting as it was) was the fact it had rear seats and a fixed roof - hence me being more a Tuscan man, although the AJP V8 is a mighty thing