When the lights go out (Battery & Engine dying)

[davidmudley12]

I had a not so fun experience tonight while driving (car started fine from home), after driving about 5 miles the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree, power steering stopped and the car eventually died (engine and lights). It was a bit of a problem on the dark country lane I was on, but thankfully I had my Noco booster with me so fired it up and made it a mile before the same thing happened. I then managed to do the same one last time but left the Noco attached to the battery which got me a little further before the whole lot shut down again (at least I managed to get onto a safer side road this time).

The car is a 2006 E85 3.0si (N52 engine).

Clearly the battery is knackered (which surprised me), but has anyone else experienced something like this. It is almost as if all the power it being drawn from the battery whether the engine is running or not (possible alternator issue?), until it dies at least.

Any suggestions on diagnosis I can do to identify the culprit?

Thanks all.

P.s. I have searched through many of the battery related issues on here (which are interesting) but I haven't found anything suggesting how I can find the source of the problem.

Many thanks.
David

 

[davidmudley12]

Having just replace the battery with a new one, the battery symbol is still read on the dash, but everything else seems to be working okay now.

 

[ronk]

You have got alternator output????

 

[Mr Tidy]

That must have been a bit scary - glad you managed to get somewhere safer!

I've never experienced a total "shut-down" like that so can't offer any advice, other than testing the alternator. IIRC you want to see more than 14v with the engine running, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be able to help.

 

[Chris_D]

sounds like ur alternator isn't charging your battery. check for voltage when ignition is running if it drops from around 14.1 volts gradually then it's def knackered.

 

[French Connection]

Hi,
I'm a total newbie just registered having found this thread and looking for some help.

I had exactly the same symptoms happen to me on my way home and managed to keep going running on 3 cylinders for a mile before it went back to 6 cylinders. Got home, charged the battery - and I just had the ABS light come on and the rev counter/speedo stuck. The engine started OK.

I disconnected the battery to see if would hold charge, (it held 12.5V) then reconnected. This time the lights all came back, rev counter/speedo back to normal. Now the engine cranks but does not fire - tried 3 times for about 3 secs, no firing at all. Another day on all connected and the battery is at 12.25V. I initially thought that the battery was goosed when I had the what appeared to be a total power loss, then with the charge not dropping massively I thought it was OK.

Now I'm not so sure about the battery - any ideas? There are many threads all suggesting the e85 needs a healthy battery. Current battery is Bosch S5 080 (70Ah) of unknown vintage.

Cheers

 

[ronk]

The above post (French Connection) doesn't sound like a battery problem to me. Have you not got any "At Home" breakdown cover that you could call on?

 

[French Connection]

I have but I’ll check fuses first just in case. Good point...

 

[ph001]

disconnected the battery to see if would hold charge, (it held 12.5V) then reconnected. This time the lights all came back, rev counter/speedo back to normal. Now the engine cranks but does not fire - tried 3 times for about 3 secs, no firing at all. Another day on all connected and the battery is at 12.25V. I initially thought that the battery was goosed when I had the what appeared to be a total power loss, then with the charge not dropping massively I thought it was OK.

Checking all the fuses is a good place to start. You need to measure the voltage drop across each of them with the ignition on ideally.

If no luck I think you will need to put a code reader on it. INPA from somewhere like Bcables.com if you are handy with a computer or a C310+ from Amazon if you are not.

 

[Chippie]

I had a not so fun experience tonight while driving (car started fine from home), after driving about 5 miles the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree, power steering stopped and the car eventually died (engine and lights). It was a bit of a problem on the dark country lane I was on, but thankfully I had my Noco booster with me so fired it up and made it a mile before the same thing happened. I then managed to do the same one last time but left the Noco attached to the battery which got me a little further before the whole lot shut down again (at least I managed to get onto a safer side road this time).

The car is a 2006 E85 3.0si (N52 engine).

Clearly the battery is knackered (which surprised me), but has anyone else experienced something like this. It is almost as if all the power it being drawn from the battery whether the engine is running or not (possible alternator issue?), until it dies at least.

Any suggestions on diagnosis I can do to identify the culprit?

Thanks all.

P.s. I have searched through many of the battery related issues on here (which are interesting) but I haven't found anything suggesting how I can find the source of the problem.

Many thanks.
David

Sounds like the alternator has failed, It’s not charging battery which is why the car dies, and then runs a little once you have put your booster pack on.

 

[brillomaster]

definitely sounds like alternator has failed. Had the exact same symptoms on a donington trackday a few years back. That was fun, trying to drive some hot laps while all the electronic systems are shutting down around you!

AA man came and put a donor battery in, which then lasted 45 minutes attempting to drive home before it lost all electrical power again.

Fortunately, once the alternator was fixed, the battery was still absolutely fine afterwards.

PS the red battery light on the dash means there is a fault with the alternator.

 

[enuff_zed]

Agreed it is pointing towards no alternator output.
Have you been rummaging around the engine bay recently?
It's a wild stab in the dark, but always worth checking all the connections first.

 

[davidmudley12]

Thanks for all the inputs, I agree it certainly sounds alternator related. I had a go at testing the alternator this morning (took the airbox out, disconnected the battery and checked the positive terminal from the alternator and then switched the multimeter around to check that it was only reading current in one direction). Things seem to be good in that regard.

However I also checked the voltage at the battery (new battery) first with the ignition off and it read 12.8 vaults (which seems good), and then again with the engine running and it was reading roughly 12 faults which clearly doesn’t look good and may explain the discharge of the battery). This again points me towards a suspect alternator in my mind, it would be helpful to know what and how people check the alternator to ensure I’m doing it correctly. Are there any good guides that you would recommend?

 

[davidmudley12]

Agreed it is pointing towards no alternator output.
Have you been rummaging around the engine bay recently?
It's a wild stab in the dark, but always worth checking all the connections first.

Good question, kind of. I recently had the bumper off to repair the engine Splash guards and remove the fog lights (for blanking plates). While I was doing this I removed the driver-side headlight units to dries out and replaced the bulbs with new OSRAM halogen bulbs. The only part of the work that I did that makes me suspicious it relates to the fog lights, I removed the foglight units but still have the wiring and bulbs wired in (although cable tied within the front bumper so that they are not bouncing around, so technically they would still work albeit no one would see them). Do you think any of this maybe creating a draw on the battery?

 

[enuff_zed]

Agreed it is pointing towards no alternator output.
Have you been rummaging around the engine bay recently?
It's a wild stab in the dark, but always worth checking all the connections first.

Good question, kind of. I recently had the bumper off to repair the engine Splash guards and remove the fog lights (for blanking plates). While I was doing this I removed the driver-side headlight units to dries out and replaced the bulbs with new OSRAM halogen bulbs. The only part of the work that I did that makes me suspicious it relates to the fog lights, I removed the foglight units but still have the wiring and bulbs wired in (although cable tied within the front bumper so that they are not bouncing around, so technically they would still work albeit no one would see them). Do you think any of this maybe creating a draw on the battery?

In your case, no I doubt it. With the engine running the alternator would be able to compensate for that.
The fact it dies means the alternator is not giving any output and therefore the car is running off battery power alone.

I was alluding to the possibility the alternator had become disconnected, but this doesn't sound likely if you've not been near it.

 

[davidmudley12]

In your case, no I doubt it. With the engine running the alternator would be able to compensate for that.
The fact it dies means the alternator is not giving any output and therefore the car is running off battery power alone.

I was alluding to the possibility the alternator had become disconnected, but this doesn't sound likely if you've not been near it.

I haven’t been doing anything with the engine/alternator but will double check the connections (the alternator connection was nicely tight when I took it off), I’ll also look up some other ways to check the alternator, the video I followed was this one: https://youtu.be/C2sU0jdop6o

 

[brillomaster]

if the alternator is working, the reading across the battery should be 13.5 - 14V. if theres no noticeable increase in voltage across the battery with the engine running then its the alternator for sure.

 

[davidmudley12]

if the alternator is working, the reading across the battery should be 13.5 - 14V. if theres no noticeable increase in voltage across the battery with the engine running then its the alternator for sure.

:happyclap: Thanks

 

[French Connection]

Checking all the fuses is a good place to start. You need to measure the voltage drop across each of them with the ignition on ideally.

If no luck I think you will need to put a code reader on it. INPA from somewhere like Bcables.com if you are handy with a computer or a C310+ from Amazon if you are not.

Thanks for this Ph001 I’m going to look into that. I charged the battery back to 12.7V, no change, nice strong crank speed but no fire. Must be code/fuse.

 

[davidmudley12]

In my digging around to double check the alternator last night I noticed a rogue wire in the engine bay, I tried to track it back to see where it is coming from but to no avail as it disappears into a bunch of wrapped wires.






Does anyone have any idea what it is? I assume its nothing to do with my alternator / battery issue given its location, but i couldn't for the life of me find anything for it to plug into in and around that area where it is.

I also took a picture of my drive belt tensioner pulley as I was trying to see where the point is to take the tension off when removing the belt, it turns out it looks quite knackered so I've ordered a replacement: