Violent limp mode with DME code 5E19 plus others - Now resolved (I think!)!

[Rossi1001]

Car is an early (March 2003 build date) 2.5i Auto (M54) with 96k miles.

11th November: driving the car on damp / wet(ish) dual carriageway, sports mode ON, I give it some beans and it suddenly lights up like a Christmas tree, EML, DSC, DTC. Power lost instantly and within 10-15 seconds, the car is shaking and jerking horrendously, with RPM bouncing up and down between 1k-3k revs. Even at a stand still in park it shakes violently, so I switch the engine off. After maybe 1 minute parked up, I try to start it and it fires up fine with no issues and I drive it (gently) home OK. Although there are no lights on the dash at this point, I check the code reader once home and I have the following;

• 27C3 DME: Thermal oil-level sensor

• 2746 DME: Misfire, cylinder 2

• 281D DME: BSD generator : signal

• 28A2 DME: Air path:monitoring

• 5E19 CAN data fault from DME/DDE (DSC lamp on as long as error is present)

I mentioned it to enuff_zed and he thinks it could be an DME issue (not good ), though I clear the codes and the car is running fine, so I hope it was just a weird one off.

26th November roads slightly damp to dry, though it's cold and there's salt on the road. Weirdly the same stretch of dual carriageway, doing about 40mph and it changes to national speed limit, so I give it some beans with sport mode ON. Same issue as before and I nearly get rear ended by a van as I pull over. You have maximum 10 seconds or so before the car becomes undriveable. Turn it off, back on again and it's fine, just as before. Codes this time are fewer than previously, they are;

• 27C3 DME: Thermal oil-level sensor

• 28A2 DME: Air path:monitoring

• 5E19 CAN data fault from DME/DDE (DSC lamp on as long as error is present)

Now I should add that the oil level sensor error is always there (I'm assuming the sensor on the bottom of the sump is busted) but I don't think it's this that's creating the issue.

I know the second one (28A2 DME: Air path:monitoring) could be DISA related (plus the DISA was overdue a check anyway - thanks enuff_zed for the advice) so I pulled it out and had a look (short vid below) and all seems OK (though tomorrow I will take it out again, and just check the vacuum with the finger over the hole test).
https://youtube.com/shorts/bEr-pupjRX4?si=MM4nVwmGzKowuvs3

Other forum posts (not necessarily Z4's but still the same M54 engine) have suggested anything from intake leaks, DISA problems to MAF sensor issues for this (28A2 DME: Air path:monitoring) issue. I even found this random BMW service bulletin (link) recommending changing the mass air flow sensor and NOT the DME.

For the 5E19 CAN data fault from DME/DDE code, I found a thread on Bimmerpost for an E92 that is the EXACT same faults / dash lights / violent limp mode (link here) and the fix was replacing and coding the DME :headbang:

I'd be enormously grateful for advice / thoughts as it's pretty scary when it happens. I wouldn't want to be in lane 3/4 on a busy motorway with no hard shoulder with this fault because you have just seconds before the car comes to a halt.

Do I get a mechanic to smoke test the intake system, double and triple check the DISA and go from there, or am I wasting my time and should I just bite the bullet with the DME / coding for it? Is it OK to buy used ones of these? My current DME is part number 12147532140. There are no leaks / visible damage to where it's sited.

I've only owned this car 18 months and have already sunk a lot of money into it (I'm scared to total it up but probably close to £3k now), but we (myself and the Mrs) have some things coming up in 2024 that are going to be expensive, and I really don't have the spare cash to be sinking a load more money into it in the short term. If it's going to be seriously expensive, I'd probably just park it up and SORN it until April, which will (hopefully) be bonus time at work.

Any help / advice from this wonderful forum (a shout out to enuff_zed and wassup particularly!) would be much appreciated.

Cheers, Ross

 

[enuff_zed]

You could disconnect the maf so it runs on a default setting. That may prove or disprove that component. You need to find somewhere safe to test it though.
Is it always when you exceed a certain rev range ?
The DME ones I’m aware of have been over about 4500rpm.
It would be useful to pull the DME to get a pic of the label as in addition to the part number it is good to try to match the software version or find a later version if possible.
[ref]bigwinn[/ref] knows all about coding the DME. I think I’d be leaning towards that as already discussed.
Get a photo of it posted on here and one of us should be able to locate a replacement.

 

[bigwinn]

Ross

Reading your experience I see similarities between my first experience of this happening

Our aged DME are starting to fail like all the other modules on the car and this one is no exception

It’s not the end of the world as finding a donor dme isn’t too expensive (I’ve a couple in the shed) and flashing it to remove the EWS link shouldn’t cost too many beer tokens

Where you based?

Stuart

 

[enuff_zed]

Ross

Reading your experience I see similarities between my first experience of this happening

Our aged DME are starting to fail like all the other modules on the car and this one is no exception

It’s not the end of the world as finding a donor dme isn’t too expensive (I’ve a couple in the shed) and flashing it to remove the EWS link shouldn’t cost too many beer tokens

Where you based?

Stuart

Stuart, I've just read another post with someone who's Sport button doesn't work, after replacing the DME. Apparently it may be to do with 'options' set for the donor vehicle?
Not sure if those can be addressed, but maybe worth making sure any DME we source for Ross comes from a car with a Sport button in it.

 

[Rossi1001]

Thanks both, you're putting my mind at ease slightly!

You could disconnect the maf so it runs on a default setting. That may prove or disprove that component. You need to find somewhere safe to test it though.
Is it always when you exceed a certain rev range ?
The DME ones I’m aware of have been over about 4500rpm.

I'd say it was beyond 4,500rpm maybe 5,500rpm but it's hard to be sure.

....It’s not the end of the world as finding a donor dme isn’t too expensive (I’ve a couple in the shed) and flashing it to remove the EWS link shouldn’t cost too many beer tokens

Where you based?

Stuart

I'm in Rayleigh, South Essex.

I'm going to try punching it again on a quiet road later tonight (when the roads are quiet), but this time without sport mode switched on, as chatting to Martin (enuff_zed) that could confirm it's a DME issue, before I go down the route of getting smoke tests etc carried out on the intake system.

Photos are below of the DME unit. These are at an angle, as other wires that didn't seem to move (and I couldn't find the ends of) were not allowing me to pull the DME unit out any further than this. You can just about read all the numbers though.

Pictures below, but label numbers are as follows (in approximately the same layout as the label, ignore the hyphens, that's just to get the layout right as the forum ignores lots of space!);

DME MS45.0 -------------------- 7 532 140
5WK93010 Index 01 ---------- Made in Germany
----------------------------------------------------11.03.03/2
----------------------------------------------------30333030

Let me know if you need the Vin number as well.

For sure I am nervous about driving long distance and on motorways with it at the moment, though maybe if I just keep in lane 1 and under 60mph the whole time I'll be safe. I have free Green Flag rescue cover as a work perk in the worst case scenario.

Very roughly how much all in do you think we're talking for replacing the DME and a bit of coding please, just a very rough ballpark? So I can beg for permission on holiday next week with the Mrs!!

I'm on holiday from this coming Tuesday, returning 9th December, so won't be able to do much more until then, though i'll check in here when I can.

 

[bigwinn]

I’ll grab the oem numbers off the dme I have

 

[bigwinn]

 

[bigwinn]

Thanks both, you're putting my mind at ease slightly!

You could disconnect the maf so it runs on a default setting. That may prove or disprove that component. You need to find somewhere safe to test it though.
Is it always when you exceed a certain rev range ?
The DME ones I’m aware of have been over about 4500rpm.

I'd say it was beyond 4,500rpm maybe 5,500rpm but it's hard to be sure.

....It’s not the end of the world as finding a donor dme isn’t too expensive (I’ve a couple in the shed) and flashing it to remove the EWS link shouldn’t cost too many beer tokens

Where you based?

Stuart

I'm in Rayleigh, South Essex.

I'm going to try punching it again on a quiet road later tonight (when the roads are quiet), but this time without sport mode switched on, as chatting to Martin (enuff_zed) that could confirm it's a DME issue, before I go down the route of getting smoke tests etc carried out on the intake system.

Photos are below of the DME unit. These are at an angle, as other wires that didn't seem to move (and I couldn't find the ends of) were not allowing me to pull the DME unit out any further than this. You can just about read all the numbers though.

Pictures below, but label numbers are as follows (in approximately the same layout as the label, ignore the hyphens, that's just to get the layout right as the forum ignores lots of space!);

DME MS45.0 -------------------- 7 532 140
5WK93010 Index 01 ---------- Made in Germany
----------------------------------------------------11.03.03/2
----------------------------------------------------30333030

Let me know if you need the Vin number as well.

For sure I am nervous about driving long distance and on motorways with it at the moment, though maybe if I just keep in lane 1 and under 60mph the whole time I'll be safe. I have free Green Flag rescue cover as a work perk in the worst case scenario.

Very roughly how much all in do you think we're talking for replacing the DME and a bit of coding please, just a very rough ballpark? So I can beg for permission on holiday next week with the Mrs!!

I'm on holiday from this coming Tuesday, returning 9th December, so won't be able to do much more until then, though i'll check in here when I can.

We have a winner!

 

[Rossi1001]

That first one looks identical to mine apart from the date / number below that! Though what's the other label top left with different part numbers on it? Should this work as a replacement? I'll PM you re monies!

Looks like a trip (fingers crossed I make it!) to Lincoln might be required :driving:

 

[enuff_zed]

That first one looks identical to mine apart from the date / number below that! Though what's the other label top left with different part numbers on it? Should this work as a replacement? I'll PM you re monies!

Looks like a trip (fingers crossed I make it!) to Lincoln might be required :driving:

See I told you we could sort it.
Not sure on who wants to drive where, but potentially meet in the middle at mine and we can do the roof motor at the same time?

 

[Rossi1001]

:ilz4f:

This thread is the correct use of this emoji / smilie! Thank you so much both of you.

 

[bigwinn]

:driving:

 

[Rossi1001]

So for the benefit of other forum members (bigwinn (Stuart) and enuff_zed (Martin) know what's been happening and I'm eternally grateful for their help!), I'd arranged to drive up to Lincoln with the plan being for Stuart to work on my Z4 back in mid December, though sadly 1.5 hours into the journey, my exhaust (at least we're reasonably sure it's that) decided it did not want to expel exhaust gases out of the back end of the car anymore!

It was odd at first, with the (very loud! ) blowing sound only happening at 50mph plus speeds and once the engine was warm / exhaust hot. I tried two fast fit exhaust centres that were nearby, however they were both clueless (although neither had their usual exhaust fitters present, it was a Sunday), so tail between my legs, I limped (very loudly!) back home.

Once home, a serious / sudden illness happened with a member of my immediate family (they're OK now), then it was Christmas and New Year, so the car kind of just got left broken, though I thought I'd explore the air intake assembly further over the holidays. The lower intake rubber boot (the bit that connects to the engine block) looked like it had electrical tape around the smaller rubber pipe and well, pulling the tape off (not that this covered all the holes!) you could see why......(see image below)!

So I put it all back together with a new intake boot earlier today (the intake boot is £35 from BMW), but decided to put back the old BMW MAF sensor, after cleaning it up with some electrical contact cleaner, rather than use the cheap new Ridex aftermarket one I bought just before Christmas. Well, the car did not like that at all! Even at stationary idle I was getting DME errors and a cylinder 2 misfire.

So I switched the MAF back over to the new Ridex aftermarket one and the car worked fine and albeit only on a very short drive (given the exhaust noise) the car felt much more responsive and like it had more power, plus it didn't throw any codes (I think the cyclinder 2 misfire is a separate, intermittent issue and possibly a coil pack, on Martin's advice I'm going to swap these around to test this theory).

So possibly (and it's a big IF right now), the limp mode issues may have stemmed from a (bad) air intake leak, combined with a broken MAF sensor, however given my exhaust woes, I've not had the opportunity to really test the car at anywhere near full throttle / higher speeds (it is SO LOUD right now!), so I don't want to count my chickens as they say on having resolved this just yet.

The car is off to my local independent mechanic to hopefully find / fix the exhaust leak next week (I'm pretty sure it's near the engine end of the car and possibly the manifold itself), so once that's fixed, I'll give it a decent test drive and see if the limp mode problem is resolved and I'll report back on this thread. If it's still there, at least I'll know for sure it's definitely a DME issue given the air intake / MAF are all new and definitely has no leaks present.

 

[enuff_zed]

That is possibly the worst example of that pipe I have seen!
Fingers crossed you are getting somewhere at last.

 

[tiglon]

I had similarly bad intake cracks on an Alfa 156 - when you accelerated the engine would rock back, opening the cracks and losing all power, causing the engine to rock back forwards closing the cracks and restoring power. And repeat every couple of seconds.

Very confusing at first, but thankfully an easy fix! I hope you've got yours sorted now!

 

[Rossi1001]

So I thought it was worth updating this for the benefit of other forum members with perhaps a similar issue on their Z4.

The broken exhaust manifold was finally fixed last week (a family bereavement and my original mechanic being seriously unwell too, meant this was delayed for some considerable time). Though annoyinly in the process of welding, the garage have busted one of the O2 sensors. It's going back to fix that next week.

Whilst in for the exhaust work, I also got the garage to change my broken oil level sensor.

I've given it a good drive, including full throttle on both normal and sport mode several times, and although it's still (from cold on start up) throwing the intermittent cylinder 2 misfire (and now the 02 sensor) codes, I've not had the codes below, nor the violent limp mode, that I had prior to fixing the air intake, changing the MAF and replacing the oil level sensor.

• 27C3 DME: Thermal oil-level sensor

• 281D DME: BSD generator : signal

• 28A2 DME: Air path:monitoring

• 5E19 CAN data fault from DME/DDE (DSC lamp on as long as error is present)

I don't want to count my chickens just yet (and will report back if things change), but (fingers crossed!!) this horible violent limp mode problem is now fixed, with the cause of the issue having been a combination of a broken MAF sensor, along with a completely knackered air intake boot.