Tyranny in Aus

[Flyingfifer]

That's just your opinion, doesnt make it right, and not sure how helping people is tyranny....quite the opposite in fact. A !ow risk is still a risk and as RD said it's not as though there are hospitals with all the staff and equipment needed to look after them down the road. Sometimes folk need saving from themselves.

You're assuming that everyone effected by this is happy and willing to have their government by punishment of force or penalty restrict their lives almost completely, they are not permitted to leave their properties, they cant even go for a walk ffs.

Take the logic of your argument that risk should be avoided, the gov should stop everyone driving, moving, eating what they want, sex, swimming, cycling, travelling, smoking, drinking.... the list goes on. Life IS risk. You cannot live without risk its basically impossible. The problem here is that tyrannical governments have decided that they are the arbiters of what is and isn't acceptable risk in peoples lives, its oppressive government plain and simple.

Do you think the Chinese government is tyrannical? Or the North Korean government? They are just protecting their citizens from what they classify as risk after all. They are just saving them from themselves after all.

Mindboggling

 

[john-e89]

That's just your opinion, doesnt make it right, and not sure how helping people is tyranny....quite the opposite in fact. A !ow risk is still a risk and as RD said it's not as though there are hospitals with all the staff and equipment needed to look after them down the road. Sometimes folk need saving from themselves.

You're assuming that everyone effected by this is happy and willing to have their government by punishment of force or penalty restrict their lives almost completely, they are not permitted to leave their properties, they cant even go for a walk ffs.

Take the logic of your argument that risk should be avoided, the gov should stop everyone driving, moving, eating what they want, sex, swimming, cycling, travelling, smoking, drinking.... the list goes on. Life IS risk. You cannot live without risk its basically impossible. The problem here is that tyrannical governments have decided that they are the arbiters of what is and isn't acceptable risk in peoples lives, its oppressive government plain and simple.

Do you think the Chinese government is tyrannical? Or the North Korean government? They are just protecting their citizens from what they classify as risk after all. They are just saving them from themselves after all.

Mindboggling

Once again... :roll: ....geographical extremes forces the issue, how many times do you need to be told it's not normal civilisation up there, also how much do you know of the Aboriginals knowledge of covid..? F..k all I'd imagine. Saving people is not tyranny. They will be taken back once all risk has been eliminated and looked after very well while away imagine.

Do you have to end every point with mock of some sort...? You'd make a fabulous spin doctor for the arrogant know it all but really not party.

 

[mr.tourette]

More valid comparison
UK 2,117 deaths/million population
Australia 75

Again, your point?

Id rather live my life with a tiny bit of risk than be locked in my house for weeks and months because 4 people in the region get ill. :roll:

I'm sure you would, the 144000 families mourning loved ones probably feel a little different

 

[Flyingfifer]

Once again... :roll: ....geographical extremes forces the issue, how many times do you need to be told it's not normal civilisation up there, also how much do you know of the Aboriginals knowledge of covid..? F..k all I'd imagine. Saving people is not tyranny. They will be taken back once all risk has been eliminated and looked after very well while away imagine.

Do you have to end every point with mock of some sort...? You'd make a fabulous spin doctor for the arrogant know it all but really not party.

What do you mean by "how much do you know of the Aboriginals knowledge of covid..?" are you suggesting they dont know about it or dont understand it?
The reason Aboriginals are in a unique position is because of biology, specifically around the lack of ancestral exposure to cold/flu/corona viruses.

I am well aware the the nearest major hospital is Darwin which is about 330km away from their local hospital which requires a flight in an emergency. That still doesnt justify locking everyone in their homes.

You know, the bad guys from WW2 thought they were saving Germany and its people... was that not tyranny because "Saving people is not tyranny"?

I'm sure you would, the 144000 families mourning loved ones probably feel a little different

That's very presumptuous, I could be a member of one of those families and there are others on the forum who have advised that they too have lost loved ones yet still do not want to be locked in their houses (de facto prisons) for weeks and months on end.

If people CHOOSE to stay at home and lock themselves away thats entirely their right and choice to do so, thats a personal decision made by them. FORCING people to remain in their homes under threat of force or penalty by the government is absolutely tyrannical by definition.

 

[john-e89]

Once again... :roll: ....geographical extremes forces the issue, how many times do you need to be told it's not normal civilisation up there, also how much do you know of the Aboriginals knowledge of covid..? F..k all I'd imagine. Saving people is not tyranny. They will be taken back once all risk has been eliminated and looked after very well while away imagine.

Do you have to end every point with mock of some sort...? You'd make a fabulous spin doctor for the arrogant know it all but really not party.

What do you mean by "how much do you know of the Aboriginals knowledge of covid..?" are you suggesting they dont know about it or dont understand it?
The reason Aboriginals are in a unique position is because of biology, specifically around the lack of ancestral exposure to cold/flu/corona viruses.

I am well aware the the nearest major hospital is Darwin which is about 330km away from their local hospital which requires a flight in an emergency. That still doesnt justify locking everyone in their homes.

You know, the bad guys from WW2 thought they were saving Germany and its people... was that not tyranny because "Saving people is not tyranny"?

I'm sure you would, the 144000 families mourning loved ones probably feel a little different

That's very presumptuous, I could be a member of one of those families and there are others on the forum who have advised that they too have lost loved ones yet still do not want to be locked in their houses (de facto prisons) for weeks and months on end.

If people CHOOSE to stay at home and lock themselves away thats entirely their right and choice to do so, thats a personal decision made by them. FORCING people to remain in their homes under threat of force or penalty by the government is absolutely tyrannical by definition.

I'm suggesting that the Aboriganies may well not fully understand covid yes, what's wrong with that..? Fact is neither you nor I know either, so I may be right, I may be wrong, so I'll have to go with what people that do know get on with it, like you'll have to. When was the last time in history the Aboriganies had covid as per your biology analogy for you to declare theyre in a unique position it seems suggesting they can't get it...? I don't see it as tyranny, Letting people die without doing anything is.

You're analogy with WW2 is too stupid to respond to.

 

[Ian J]

the 144,000 families mourning loved ones probably feel a little different

I don't want to get involved in this argument but I would make the point that every country seems to register covid deaths differently.

England's statistics are deaths for any reason for people who have tested positive in the previous 30 days and that includes death by being run over by a bus.

My wife is a nurse in a large regional hospital and their staff have been told to put covid on the death certificate as often as possible. She nursed a 94 year old man with terminal heart disease who had come in to the hospital to die. Unfortunately he contracted covid whilst in hospital and when he died as expected his death was put down to covid

 

[Flyingfifer]

I'm suggesting that the Aboriganies may well not fully understand covid yes, what's wrong with that..? Fact is neither you nor I know either, so I may be right, I may be wrong, so I'll have to go with what people that do know get on with it, like you'll have to. When was the last time in history the Aboriganies had covid as per your biology analogy for you to declare theyre in a unique position it seems suggesting they can't get it...? I don't see it as tyranny, Letting people die without doing anything is.

You're analogy with WWW2 is too stupid to respond to.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooof. Thats a nuclear hot spicy take.
Personally I'm not going to call into question the intelligence of Aboriginal people, you can have that all to yourself.
Also how on earth did you surmise that I was suggesting they couldn't get it???
For clarity, my point was that (as far as I have read) they do not have the long ancestral (hundreds of generations) exposure to corona/flu/cold viruses that for example Europeans do, that gives them a far higher risk of developing serious symptoms and a higher risk of death.

So your argument is that not doing anything and allowing people to make their own decisions and take their own risks IS tyrannical but that enforcing the governments will on people without their consent, locking them in their homes (in 40+ degree heat btw) forbidding them to leave their homes even for a walk on punishment of force or penalty is not tyrannical......? Thats your position? Really? Do you know what tyranny means?

Based on your spicy take on Aboriginals I'm not that surprised you can see similar logic to the WW2 bad guys.

 

[mr.tourette]

Whatever..I wish I never stepped in here either tbh , the thread started out as a reident Aussie trying to put some real world experience and context into the current situation over there but its been derailed by the covid crew as usual so I'll bid this thread a farewell :surrender:

 

[ronk]

Are you still working from home Mr Fifer?

 

[john-e89]

I'm suggesting that the Aboriganies may well not fully understand covid yes, what's wrong with that..? Fact is neither you nor I know either, so I may be right, I may be wrong, so I'll have to go with what people that do know get on with it, like you'll have to. When was the last time in history the Aboriganies had covid as per your biology analogy for you to declare theyre in a unique position it seems suggesting they can't get it...? I don't see it as tyranny, Letting people die without doing anything is.

You're analogy with WWW2 is too stupid to respond to.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooof. Thats a nuclear hot spicy take.
Personally I'm not going to call into question the intelligence of Aboriginal people, you can have that all to yourself.
Also how on earth did you surmise that I was suggesting they couldn't get it???
For clarity, my point was that (as far as I have read) they do not have the long ancestral (hundreds of generations) exposure to corona/flu/cold viruses that for example Europeans do, that gives them a far higher risk of developing serious symptoms and a higher risk of death.

So your argument is that not doing anything and allowing people to make their own decisions and take their own risks IS tyrannical but that enforcing the governments will on people without their consent, locking them in their homes (in 40+ degree heat btw) forbidding them to leave their homes even for a walk on punishment of force or penalty is not tyrannical......? Thats your position? Really? Do you know what tyranny means?

Based on your spicy take on Aboriginals I'm not that surprised you can see similar logic to the WW2 bad guys.

Covid is already up there hence the discussion....!! And you have no idea what the outcome will be, nor do I.

Usual spin on things, make a far too bigger point of something so you have something to cling to. I'm not questioning Aborigines intelligence,I'm suggesting they might not know as much as the rest of Oz about it due to how they choose to live up there and the remoteness, as I said I may be wrong so cut the stupid spin, it smacks of desperation.

Again, your WW2 analogy is too stupid to respond to.

 

[Flyingfifer]

Covid is already up there hence the discussion....!! And you have no idea what the outcome will be, nor do I.

Usual spin on things, make a far too bigger point of something so you have something to cling to. I'm not questioning Aborigines intelligence,I'm suggesting they might not know as much as the rest of Oz about it due to how they choose to live up there and the remoteness, as I said I may be wrong so cut the stupid spin, it smacks of desperation.

Again, your WW2 analogy is too stupid to respond to.

You get they live in a village right? Both Binjari and Rockhole are about 10miles from a nearby town Katherine which is the 4th largest in the territory, its not the middle of the outback these people are in where the nearest "normal civilisation" as you put it is hundreds of miles away, they have a McDonalds and a Dominoes within a 15min drive.

 

[john-e89]

Covid is already up there hence the discussion....!! And you have no idea what the outcome will be, nor do I.

Usual spin on things, make a far too bigger point of something so you have something to cling to. I'm not questioning Aborigines intelligence,I'm suggesting they might not know as much as the rest of Oz about it due to how they choose to live up there and the remoteness, as I said I may be wrong so cut the stupid spin, it smacks of desperation.

Again, your WW2 analogy is too stupid to respond to.

You get they live in a village right? Both Binjari and Rockhole are about 10miles from a nearby town Katherine which is the 4th largest in the territory, its not the middle of the outback these people are in where the nearest "normal civilisation" as you put it is hundreds of miles away, they have a McDonalds and a Dominoes within a 15min drive.

Ahhhhhhh ok sorry, I didn't realise that....why didn't you tell me before....?? My apologies...


They can eat themselves to death before covid kills them.....luck lucky lucky.....

 

[Flyingfifer]

Ahhhhhhh ok sorry, I didn't realise that....why didn't you tell me before....?? My apologies...

They can eat themselves to death before covid kills them.....luck lucky lucky.....

My apologies as well I assumed you knew these weren't in the middle of nowhere.

We can joke about the obesity but its 74% overweight and 45% obese for Aboriginal, thats worse than Scotland and the US which means its REALLY bad

 

[Nanu]

Perhaps time for moderators to close. Suspect the subject may arise again in another thread but until then?

 

[Old-Duckman]

Perhaps time for moderators to close. Suspect the subject may arise again in another thread but until then?

I followed this thread a bit in the beginning and picked it up when the Aborigines part started.

I’ve seen no reason to close the thread, no one seems to be getting nasty with one another, just spirited discussion. Conversations evolve as do threads on forums. Closing those that, for whatever reason, have gone off of the original subject some seems too much like the cancel culture attitude. Keep it going until it devolves into ad hominem attacks or similar distasteful directions.

 

[Flyingfifer]

Perhaps time for moderators to close. Suspect the subject may arise again in another thread but until then?

I followed this thread a bit in the beginning and picked it up when the Aborigines part started.

I’ve seen no reason to close the thread, no one seems to be getting nasty with one another, just spirited discussion. Conversations evolve as do threads on forums. Closing those that, for whatever reason, have gone off of the original subject some seems too much like the cancel culture attitude. Keep it going until it devolves into ad hominem attacks or similar distasteful directions.

Agreed, all the discussion imo has revolved around the tyranny currently being displayed in Aus and has not descended (yet) into mud slinging by those that are intellectually incapable of engaging in discussion/debate.

Dont like it, dont read it. I hate the show Star Trek Discovery, I dont watch it, simples.

 

[r2uzenblot]

I think the big mistake in this whole discussion was talking about the tyranny in Aus. It was only after about three days I realised Aus meant Australia and not Austria......... :lol:

 

[john-e89]

I think the big mistake in this whole discussion was talking about the tyranny in Aus. It was only after about three days I realised Aus meant Australia and not Austria......... :lol:

You know the rest blot.... :wink:

 

[Flyingfifer]

I think the big mistake in this whole discussion was talking about the tyranny in Aus. It was only after about three days I realised Aus meant Australia and not Austria......... :lol:

I mean that's understandable considering the even worse tyranny that Austria are implementing, wonder how long it will take till the unvaccinated need to wear gold stars or maybe a gold syringe?

 

[ronk]