thoughts on this
- Thread starter jamesbond
- Start date
I used to be a fan of the 987 Cayman (particularly the R) but I think they look a bit crap now compared to the 981 Boxster/Cayman. With the advent of the GTS and GT4 I can see these dropping to peanuts over the next few years (literally sub £5k). They look a bit sad now really.
The point people seem to miss about the M's, when they compare them on value-grounds to newer cars that offer similar or better performance, is that it isn't about that for a lot of owners and potential owners. It's about owning a little piece of history - a rare, low-volume car, the likes of which we won't see again. It's not perfect, or the best and most of us would acknowledge that, but it is special to a loyal following. That's why prices are rising. Simple supply and demand - there are more potential owners than sellers.
I've owned mine for over 5 years and unless I get the cash to swap it for an Exige S3 or GT4 it won't be going anywhere. I love it as much as I did when I bought it. I still cherish every drive in it and still look back at it when I've parked it. If that makes me sad then so be it. I don't care what anyone else thinks.
The point people seem to miss about the M's, when they compare them on value-grounds to newer cars that offer similar or better performance, is that it isn't about that for a lot of owners and potential owners. It's about owning a little piece of history - a rare, low-volume car, the likes of which we won't see again. It's not perfect, or the best and most of us would acknowledge that, but it is special to a loyal following. That's why prices are rising. Simple supply and demand - there are more potential owners than sellers.
I've owned mine for over 5 years and unless I get the cash to swap it for an Exige S3 or GT4 it won't be going anywhere. I love it as much as I did when I bought it. I still cherish every drive in it and still look back at it when I've parked it. If that makes me sad then so be it. I don't care what anyone else thinks.
i get it og , totally standard or modded, high miles or low miles,multiple owners or 1 owner , they're all special & a great ownership experience ive not felt since my 964 was in the garage , a work of mechanical engineering most companies could not even get close to , love it 
Mad Professor
Active member
All I'm saying is that I think for that mileage it's a bit rich for a private sale IMHO ,and if I were paying that much I'd be buying from a dealer with some sort of come back ,that's all reallyJAD said:
Now it may well be that it's in perfect mechanical condition with an impeccable service history with all the boxes ticked ,in which case it will indeed sell at that price.
Reference the mileage argument it's interesting what is deemed low/high, I know it's not a direct comparison as it is 5 or so years older, but the E39 M5 is a car I've looked at regularly over the years and for something around a 01-02 plate is considered OK to buy at 100k+ miles with anything under 80k being considered low mileage. So I don't think a Z4M with 60k is really a problem somehow :lol:
Interesting thread.
I hate commenting on people's sale threads, as it influences buyers, however i think in this thread it's too late - so what the hell...
He's put lots of work into the car and it really shows in the pics, and reason for sale should be irrelevant (not saying it is, but it could just be total BS, so it shouldnt factor in at all), in a months time you're not gonna care why its been sold - you're gonna care that you did due diligence and are trouble free. Taste aside, if all checks out - its a great example.
With regards to the other comments - i totally agree there are people on this forum that think Z4M[R|C] is the holy grail of cars, and a stock example with 20k miles, a 10mm lowering and stubby is worth £5mil or something, but its not really relevant to this sale. I also don't think many of that crowd have yet to chime in.
Luckily we don't need to all debate the price, mods (as stock parts are included) and condition, because A. a seller can fill in the information gaps with the buyer, B. there's multiple price/valuation threads on this forum tracking the price, and C. half of the dreamers opinions of 'what its worth' just expect a perfect car (at 10 years old?) with warrantees, services, freebies for no money at all, so can be happily ignored.
GLWTS, if i wanted a roady (hah as if..) i'd buy it.
I hate commenting on people's sale threads, as it influences buyers, however i think in this thread it's too late - so what the hell...
He's put lots of work into the car and it really shows in the pics, and reason for sale should be irrelevant (not saying it is, but it could just be total BS, so it shouldnt factor in at all), in a months time you're not gonna care why its been sold - you're gonna care that you did due diligence and are trouble free. Taste aside, if all checks out - its a great example.
With regards to the other comments - i totally agree there are people on this forum that think Z4M[R|C] is the holy grail of cars, and a stock example with 20k miles, a 10mm lowering and stubby is worth £5mil or something, but its not really relevant to this sale. I also don't think many of that crowd have yet to chime in.
Luckily we don't need to all debate the price, mods (as stock parts are included) and condition, because A. a seller can fill in the information gaps with the buyer, B. there's multiple price/valuation threads on this forum tracking the price, and C. half of the dreamers opinions of 'what its worth' just expect a perfect car (at 10 years old?) with warrantees, services, freebies for no money at all, so can be happily ignored.
GLWTS, if i wanted a roady (hah as if..) i'd buy it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Mad Professor said:
I can appreciate that - but I guess it's the age old adage of "what something is worth". Just looking through the M Market Watch thread, it's clear the prices these cars can demand are on the rise (regardless of how it's inflated, which dealers are offering what etc).
Mine was just short of 90k and it had been brilliant in my ownership..
My M car sold for full money. Some people on here offered over £3000 less than the car sold for...
The thing is the S54 is a superb unit... Change its oil and you have a good unit that's powerful and reliable...
BUT anything over 70k and you are in the zone for potential problems...
The S54 suffers headgasket, vanos and rod bearing problems... Cam wear and follower problems can catch you out too...
It's not really a fault of the engine design, just longevity and age will catch up... Don't think any other 300bhp+ engine is any different though... They all have trouble ..
I think our highest mile member had an engine at low miles iirc?
If your unlucky then it could cost you a few grand, chances are it won't though..
The OP's car will sell.... It's just the right person is needed..
My M car sold for full money. Some people on here offered over £3000 less than the car sold for...
The thing is the S54 is a superb unit... Change its oil and you have a good unit that's powerful and reliable...
BUT anything over 70k and you are in the zone for potential problems...
The S54 suffers headgasket, vanos and rod bearing problems... Cam wear and follower problems can catch you out too...
It's not really a fault of the engine design, just longevity and age will catch up... Don't think any other 300bhp+ engine is any different though... They all have trouble ..
I think our highest mile member had an engine at low miles iirc?
If your unlucky then it could cost you a few grand, chances are it won't though..
The OP's car will sell.... It's just the right person is needed..
Any high performance engine with small tolerance will have an issue in its life tho, its wear and tear. All of BMWs high performance engines have had similar issues, same with porsche etc
Its also about luck too, as above there are high milage cars that haven't needed much maintenance.
Its preventative measures and knowledge thats good for new buyers.
No engine is bullet proof and there are plenty of examples of the S54, S65, S85 etc having some pretty catastrophic issues. The S54 is very well built and with proper maintenance is a very very reliable engine. Knowledge is key and you have to be a bit of a geek when it comes to these engines and know a little more than the standard service routine.
Its other components, I would want the rod bearings replaced and the engine mounts at the same time at around the 80k mark just for piece of mind, especially as the cars are reaching the 10 year mark. Its a little pricey at around £1000-1250 depending where you take it. The car could well be fine but if these bearings wear too much say goodbye to that engine and 8k for a new one. These are wearable components, add that to maybe an inspection II at 80k for around £800 and a set of discs and pads all round another £800 your looking at 3-4k depending what else you fancy swapping… Suspension?? Probs not a bad time for a refresh. So add that to the 15.5k mark and your looking at 20k which to me just isn't a good proposition… Not specifically this car but the prices generally.
So fair enough its not high milage for its age but when you start to look at possible maintenance prices can spiral. I also don't think its unreasonable to want a warranty as the above its expensive to sort and its something I would look for. I got a 2 year warranty with mine specifically because I was worried about possible expenses.
Might just be me but I like to air on the more cautious side its hard to know how they have been treated, tracked etc
Its these sort of items that people seem to overlook and these issues would be on top of my list hence my pricey for milage comments.
Yes there are many E46 M3s well into the 150k mark but there will also have been a little bit of work that has been done on them and if there wasn't I would be very very reluctant, tbh I wouldn't even think about looking at an M car with that sort of milage. Very limited market of people that would actually buy them hence why there are so many cheap dogs at that sort of milage knocking about.
I also concur with OG about having something special because it is a very unique car. I expect the prices will tail off soon, the Z4M has had a lot of media attention as a bargain spots car over the last 2 years and there is only so much value in them. They aren't the same sort of bargains atm.
Its also about luck too, as above there are high milage cars that haven't needed much maintenance.
Its preventative measures and knowledge thats good for new buyers.
No engine is bullet proof and there are plenty of examples of the S54, S65, S85 etc having some pretty catastrophic issues. The S54 is very well built and with proper maintenance is a very very reliable engine. Knowledge is key and you have to be a bit of a geek when it comes to these engines and know a little more than the standard service routine.
Its other components, I would want the rod bearings replaced and the engine mounts at the same time at around the 80k mark just for piece of mind, especially as the cars are reaching the 10 year mark. Its a little pricey at around £1000-1250 depending where you take it. The car could well be fine but if these bearings wear too much say goodbye to that engine and 8k for a new one. These are wearable components, add that to maybe an inspection II at 80k for around £800 and a set of discs and pads all round another £800 your looking at 3-4k depending what else you fancy swapping… Suspension?? Probs not a bad time for a refresh. So add that to the 15.5k mark and your looking at 20k which to me just isn't a good proposition… Not specifically this car but the prices generally.
So fair enough its not high milage for its age but when you start to look at possible maintenance prices can spiral. I also don't think its unreasonable to want a warranty as the above its expensive to sort and its something I would look for. I got a 2 year warranty with mine specifically because I was worried about possible expenses.
Might just be me but I like to air on the more cautious side its hard to know how they have been treated, tracked etc
Its these sort of items that people seem to overlook and these issues would be on top of my list hence my pricey for milage comments.
Yes there are many E46 M3s well into the 150k mark but there will also have been a little bit of work that has been done on them and if there wasn't I would be very very reluctant, tbh I wouldn't even think about looking at an M car with that sort of milage. Very limited market of people that would actually buy them hence why there are so many cheap dogs at that sort of milage knocking about.
I also concur with OG about having something special because it is a very unique car. I expect the prices will tail off soon, the Z4M has had a lot of media attention as a bargain spots car over the last 2 years and there is only so much value in them. They aren't the same sort of bargains atm.
Steve_R1979
Member
Z4M-2006 said:
This.
Mad Professor
Active member
Tom makes some valid points there about mileage, luck and detailed knowledge of previous maintenance work -ie rather than merely a stamp in the book which is rather meaningless .
I fully appreciate that Z4M's are apparently selling for strong money right now in the summer -so there is clearly a buoyant market out there which is good news for people who already own one including me -but like Tom I honestly don't see a 9 yo car at 15.5k with 70k miles representing any kind of bargain . I just wonder how for example a Boxster S of the same vintage and mileage might stack up in terms of money -its been a while since i looked but I'm guessing significantly less ?
I fully appreciate that Z4M's are apparently selling for strong money right now in the summer -so there is clearly a buoyant market out there which is good news for people who already own one including me -but like Tom I honestly don't see a 9 yo car at 15.5k with 70k miles representing any kind of bargain . I just wonder how for example a Boxster S of the same vintage and mileage might stack up in terms of money -its been a while since i looked but I'm guessing significantly less ?
Yes but you see that's missing the point again. Most buyers of these cars are not buying with a shopping list of potential alternatives. They want the Z4M. The same way people are paying mega bucks for an M3 CSL or an M Coupe or an E30 M3 Evo. The fact that there are better or more reliable or faster cars for the same money is a total irrelevance to those people.
So normal rules about mileage and "value" just don't apply here.
So normal rules about mileage and "value" just don't apply here.
mattwaltersz4m
Member
Mad Professor said:
Less money and as said before an engine which is made of cheese! The Z4 is fairly well underpinned in price due to not many being made. The market is flooded with Porsche models so naturally down they go.
You can get similar aged Boxster S sub 40k for 12k upward. Caymans are still holding their value ok but less than the Zs now 16kish for a decent one.
Theres no arguing there OG but this is a recent case like I said 3-4 years ago they were rock bottom a 4 yo coupe could be had with sub 45k for 17.5k. Thats what I payed anyway. Milage and value most certainly did apply especially if its going to be an appreciating asset, I agree with you when looking at the coupe but not a roadster as its not a unique recipe and there are still NA roady competitors. The only Coupe competitor is the Cayman.
Struggle to find coupes with spec above now for 22k many cases more, just seen Knights have a coupe with 25k for 25k. The Coupe was always a strange one, the M3 was a better car in many ways and they were similar prices and the M3 ride was a lot better 2 more seats etc but wasn't a true sports car, but the M3 seemed a better purchase, so many coupes didn't sell and people that bought Z4Ms were a very specific unique buyers leaving the UK with 550ish total. People that wanted a sports car usually wanted a car that did more so they bought the roadster as roof down is selling feature, which is why twice as many were sold.
We are talking different cars with the CSL tho and the M3 evo. The evo started it all nostalgia for many and historic pedigree, the CSL was supposed to be a limited run the Z4M wasn't, It was just unpopular at the time.
As we've all said if BMW had made the E89 with the V8 it would have been a good seller and we would be having a different conversation.
I love the Z4M but after owning one and selling it for a good price I would need a lot more to buy one and I don't think I would be looking at another with current prices.
Theres no arguing there OG but this is a recent case like I said 3-4 years ago they were rock bottom a 4 yo coupe could be had with sub 45k for 17.5k. Thats what I payed anyway. Milage and value most certainly did apply especially if its going to be an appreciating asset, I agree with you when looking at the coupe but not a roadster as its not a unique recipe and there are still NA roady competitors. The only Coupe competitor is the Cayman.
Struggle to find coupes with spec above now for 22k many cases more, just seen Knights have a coupe with 25k for 25k. The Coupe was always a strange one, the M3 was a better car in many ways and they were similar prices and the M3 ride was a lot better 2 more seats etc but wasn't a true sports car, but the M3 seemed a better purchase, so many coupes didn't sell and people that bought Z4Ms were a very specific unique buyers leaving the UK with 550ish total. People that wanted a sports car usually wanted a car that did more so they bought the roadster as roof down is selling feature, which is why twice as many were sold.
We are talking different cars with the CSL tho and the M3 evo. The evo started it all nostalgia for many and historic pedigree, the CSL was supposed to be a limited run the Z4M wasn't, It was just unpopular at the time.
As we've all said if BMW had made the E89 with the V8 it would have been a good seller and we would be having a different conversation.
I love the Z4M but after owning one and selling it for a good price I would need a lot more to buy one and I don't think I would be looking at another with current prices.