Thinking of a changing the z4m for a cayman s

[Vanne]

When I bought my Mcoupe, it was either that or a 2008 Cayman S. Took many Caymans for a test drive as there are lots about.. took one Mcoupe for a test drive and was immediately sold.
That said, your itch may vary, go drive a few, buy one, see how you go. You can always comeback.

 

[Vanne]

And unless you going for a newer one I really think the rear end and rear spoiler look a bit ugly

Yup I agree, our coupe is pretty timeless actually.. I especially get that when I see the older (same age as our cars) Caymans and Boxters.

 

[SpiketheBike]

Anyone have a non biased experience of both

cayman in question

On a Z4 Forum? :rofl: :rofl:
Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[nickw6666]

Just to add a comment or two.

I posted recently on moving to a 2007 Porsche 997.11 911 C2S which I have now purchased. I also have a 2007 Z4M coupe that I have owned for 9 years which I was going to sell when I got the 911.

Well I still own the Z4M coupe as I can't bring myself to sell it after finding that actually I prefer it to the 911.

Some may think I'm nuts, but like many on this forum, I understand what makes the Z4M a very special car. It's just so much more exciting than either the 911 to Cayman S, thanks mainly to that sensational S54 engine. The M97 family engines from Porsche are simply not as good let alone as reliable.

Some time ago I nearly swapped my Z4MC for a Cayman, but passed when I realised that the Cayman was so well balanced and smooth, that it was as challenging to drive as a Focus.

So my thoughts are, be careful about moving on from your Z4M until you are absolutely sure you're moving to something you will enjoy more.

The Z4M is a relatively rare car and if you have a good one, you may struggle to find one as good if you want to buy back in at a later date.

I'm in a position that I can hang onto both of my cars cars for now so am enjoying both, but I know that the Z4M is the one that will be harder to replace. The 911 and Cayman are plentiful...

As a daily driver, the Porsche's are a bit more benign and simple to live with, but they just dont thrill in the same way as the Z4M.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[mmm-five]

I'll happily own either.

The final decider for me at the time was that the Z4MC was much cheaper (£25k vs £34k) to an equivalent spec/age Cayman S.

My only proper driving of a Cayman S was at/around the Nurburgring, but that was abut 2 year after I'd already bought the Z4MC.

Brakes on the Cayman S were much better than the Z4MC, I found the seats held me better, and it didn't punish you as much if I'd got slightly off line on a fast corner (i.e. not as twitchy).

 

[RedUn]

I came the opposite way from a Cayman S to the Z4M.

I never found it exciting at all unless you were in serious licence loosing territory...

 

[Vanne]

You can swap brakes and seats in the Z4M

 

[Anonymous]

I had a Cayman S. My recent car history is as follows:

Bought a Z4MR as my weekend car
Sold Z4MR to buy a house
Bought Z4 3.0i as my all round everyday and weekend car
Sold the Z4 3.0i as I found it dull
Bought a TVR Chimaera as my weekend car and got lifts in work for a while
Bought a Cayman S as my everyday car and kept my TVR for weekends
Sold the Cayman S as it was becoming a money pit
Bought back my old Z4MR
Sold the Chimaera and bought a TVR Griffith

I now have two weekend cars! Haha!

The Cayman S was a great car, but I don't regret swapping it for the Z4MR. The Cayman was becoming a bit of a money pit. Loads of things went wrong with it, it rattled, the engine noise wasn't anywhere near as nice as the Z4M and it lacked the element of fun.

The main thing I didn't like on the car was the gear change. I could never get it to feel right. My car had done 60k miles, so not loads. It had masses of play in the shifter and it was often difficult to engage gears. It wasn't tight and precise like the BMW one (which I admit you do need to be careful with and rev match) it just felt worn out. I did replace all the bushes and various shifter parts with a metal bearing kit from the USA and it improved the feel no end, but it was still awful shifting into first and second. I hated it. That's the downside of long gear shift cables I guess.

It handled amazingly well, but it was all a bit too precise. It wasn't mad enough to be fun, whereas the Z4M is. The Z4M is much more happy being a lout! The Porsche is much more composed. I also missed the convertible roof on the Z4MR, although that's a non argument as you can get both cars in both guises (Cayman/Boxster - Z4MC/Z4MR). I did like the way I could fit standard Thule roof bars to the Cayman, so I could take my bike or kayak out. But now I just use my girlfriend's M135i instead.

I did seriously consider changing my 987.1 Cayman S for a 987.2 Cayman S with PDK and Sport Chrono. That was the reason I sold it initially. But then the opportunity to buy my old Z4MR came up, so I did.

I would seriously consider whether you can afford to go for the 987.2. The 987.1 was plagued with various engine problems which were sorted on the facelift. And it looks so much better. It's more money, but I think it will also hold its value better. And it will cost less in the long run. I was always scared that my 987.1 was going to cost me another bucket load of money, which took away from the enjoyment. I just don't have that worry in my Z4M.

In summary, the Cayman S is a very very good car, but not without its problems. It doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the BMW and really needs to be revved to get the power out of it. But it's precise and handles incredibly well.

Common issues:

Suspension bushes are terrible. Budget to have them all replaced. And ball joints. Mine all needed doing after 60k miles.
Gear shift bushes, cables and synchros. Test the gearbox properly.
Engine noise and oil consumption. Check for smoke and rattles. Do get a borescope check done by a specialist. Scored bores will cost you thousands to sort. The 987.2 won't suffer from scored bores as it has the later DFI engine with different liners.
Electric windows. They love to break regulators and motors. Mine did. £1000 per side!
Air con. Really check it works. Although it's not a difficult or expensive job, it's still a cost. The condensors get battered at the front of the car. I replaced mine myself. About £100 in parts for both sides, plus the cost for a professional to come in, vacuum and system and regas. £200 in total.
Clutches. They don't last long. Neither do flywheels. I think my car had lived in a town or city all its life prior to me owning it as it had had two clutch and flywheel changes in 65k miles! Not cheap! The clutch isn't the easiest thing to use on the Cayman. It's easy to ride the clutch and very easy to stall.
Rusting exhausts and loose heatshields. The exhausts are rubbish on them. Mine looked terrible, really rusty and the heatshields were loose as the fixing bolts had pulled through the heatshield. Used to rattle like mad!


I hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more info.

I would make sure you get a good extended test drive. Make sure you like it. I really liked mine and would get another, but I'd get a 987.2 PDK if I do it again.

Dan

Hi Dan,

On the subject of your car history, I'd be interested to know more about your Chim. A friend picked up a Cerb at the weekend - we drove to Bristol to get it and on the way back my ///M really paled into insignificance against something like a TVR. I'm not the quickest A-B driver, so prefer sound/looks/fun of the Chim/Cerb... debating putting my Zed up for sale therefore.

 

[ocrx8]

I had a Cayman S. My recent car history is as follows:

Bought a Z4MR as my weekend car
Sold Z4MR to buy a house
Bought Z4 3.0i as my all round everyday and weekend car
Sold the Z4 3.0i as I found it dull
Bought a TVR Chimaera as my weekend car and got lifts in work for a while
Bought a Cayman S as my everyday car and kept my TVR for weekends
Sold the Cayman S as it was becoming a money pit
Bought back my old Z4MR
Sold the Chimaera and bought a TVR Griffith

I now have two weekend cars! Haha!

The Cayman S was a great car, but I don't regret swapping it for the Z4MR. The Cayman was becoming a bit of a money pit. Loads of things went wrong with it, it rattled, the engine noise wasn't anywhere near as nice as the Z4M and it lacked the element of fun.

The main thing I didn't like on the car was the gear change. I could never get it to feel right. My car had done 60k miles, so not loads. It had masses of play in the shifter and it was often difficult to engage gears. It wasn't tight and precise like the BMW one (which I admit you do need to be careful with and rev match) it just felt worn out. I did replace all the bushes and various shifter parts with a metal bearing kit from the USA and it improved the feel no end, but it was still awful shifting into first and second. I hated it. That's the downside of long gear shift cables I guess.

It handled amazingly well, but it was all a bit too precise. It wasn't mad enough to be fun, whereas the Z4M is. The Z4M is much more happy being a lout! The Porsche is much more composed. I also missed the convertible roof on the Z4MR, although that's a non argument as you can get both cars in both guises (Cayman/Boxster - Z4MC/Z4MR). I did like the way I could fit standard Thule roof bars to the Cayman, so I could take my bike or kayak out. But now I just use my girlfriend's M135i instead.

I did seriously consider changing my 987.1 Cayman S for a 987.2 Cayman S with PDK and Sport Chrono. That was the reason I sold it initially. But then the opportunity to buy my old Z4MR came up, so I did.

I would seriously consider whether you can afford to go for the 987.2. The 987.1 was plagued with various engine problems which were sorted on the facelift. And it looks so much better. It's more money, but I think it will also hold its value better. And it will cost less in the long run. I was always scared that my 987.1 was going to cost me another bucket load of money, which took away from the enjoyment. I just don't have that worry in my Z4M.

In summary, the Cayman S is a very very good car, but not without its problems. It doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the BMW and really needs to be revved to get the power out of it. But it's precise and handles incredibly well.

Common issues:

Suspension bushes are terrible. Budget to have them all replaced. And ball joints. Mine all needed doing after 60k miles.
Gear shift bushes, cables and synchros. Test the gearbox properly.
Engine noise and oil consumption. Check for smoke and rattles. Do get a borescope check done by a specialist. Scored bores will cost you thousands to sort. The 987.2 won't suffer from scored bores as it has the later DFI engine with different liners.
Electric windows. They love to break regulators and motors. Mine did. £1000 per side!
Air con. Really check it works. Although it's not a difficult or expensive job, it's still a cost. The condensors get battered at the front of the car. I replaced mine myself. About £100 in parts for both sides, plus the cost for a professional to come in, vacuum and system and regas. £200 in total.
Clutches. They don't last long. Neither do flywheels. I think my car had lived in a town or city all its life prior to me owning it as it had had two clutch and flywheel changes in 65k miles! Not cheap! The clutch isn't the easiest thing to use on the Cayman. It's easy to ride the clutch and very easy to stall.
Rusting exhausts and loose heatshields. The exhausts are rubbish on them. Mine looked terrible, really rusty and the heatshields were loose as the fixing bolts had pulled through the heatshield. Used to rattle like mad!


I hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more info.

I would make sure you get a good extended test drive. Make sure you like it. I really liked mine and would get another, but I'd get a 987.2 PDK if I do it again.

Dan

Hi Dan,

On the subject of your car history, I'd be interested to know more about your Chim. A friend picked up a Cerb at the weekend - we drove to Bristol to get it and on the way back my ///M really paled into insignificance against something like a TVR. I'm not the quickest A-B driver, so prefer sound/looks/fun of the Chim/Cerb... debating putting my Zed up for sale therefore.

I think that's what a V8 does to you. My M feels somewhat 'thin' after driving an AMG V8.

 

[Anonymous]

I think that's what a V8 does to you. My M feels somewhat 'thin' after driving an AMG V8.

Are you talking SLK and SL? Not driven either yet actually. I've driven E and C class 63s, they really didn't give me the same feeling as the Chim/Cerbs nor the Zed.

 

[nickw6666]

As per my last post, I bought a 911 997 Gen 1 C2S recently to replace my beloved Imola Red Z4MC and frankly I've been disappointed with it in comparison with the Z4M. The Cayman S is a great handler but some of the issues I have with the 911 also apply to the Cayman. The Porsche's squeak and rattle more than they should and although the brakes are very good, the rest of the car is very anodyne compared to the Z4MC, which is so exciting to drive even if it is unruly at times.
The S54 engine in the Z4M is a masterpiece as we've all said before and far more exciting to rev and drive than the Porsche M96/M97 engines even though the power outputs are similar.
So for me I would say the Cayman S would be an easier car to live with day-to-day than the Z4M, but not as challenging or rewarding to drive as it so well balanced you feel that your granny could take it to a track day and hoon around with no mishaps.
I have to decide now whether to sell my Z4MC or 911C2S as I need to drop down to one weekend car (335i coupe as daily driver!) which is not easy. Think hard before moving that Z4M on as there are so few around that buying back in won't be easy.

 

[RedUn]

Nick I'm sure you owe me a pint for helping saving your z4mc last time oke:

 

[nickw6666]

Nick I'm sure you owe me a pint for helping saving your z4mc last time oke:
[/quote

RedUn - I think you're right there!

You helped make sure I didn't sell it and can still do some :driving:

Thing is now though will only have 1x garage space by end of June so will have to sell one of the cars or put one of them into storage! But of a dilemma! :?

Might need your advice again here! :roll:

 

[dgm]

I haven't driven a Cayman for years but yesterday I had a decent drive in a Boxster 987.2 back to back with my own car. Very different feel and power delivery but I wouldn't be turning my nose up at the Porsche over the Z4M, it's a very quick and capable car. Also it seemed to have plenty of character to me unlike the 997.2 I've previously driven which, although rapid with superb handling, felt very clinical and almost too easy to drive quickly.

 

[dan yeates]

I had a Cayman S. My recent car history is as follows:

Bought a Z4MR as my weekend car
Sold Z4MR to buy a house
Bought Z4 3.0i as my all round everyday and weekend car
Sold the Z4 3.0i as I found it dull
Bought a TVR Chimaera as my weekend car and got lifts in work for a while
Bought a Cayman S as my everyday car and kept my TVR for weekends
Sold the Cayman S as it was becoming a money pit
Bought back my old Z4MR
Sold the Chimaera and bought a TVR Griffith

I now have two weekend cars! Haha!

The Cayman S was a great car, but I don't regret swapping it for the Z4MR. The Cayman was becoming a bit of a money pit. Loads of things went wrong with it, it rattled, the engine noise wasn't anywhere near as nice as the Z4M and it lacked the element of fun.

The main thing I didn't like on the car was the gear change. I could never get it to feel right. My car had done 60k miles, so not loads. It had masses of play in the shifter and it was often difficult to engage gears. It wasn't tight and precise like the BMW one (which I admit you do need to be careful with and rev match) it just felt worn out. I did replace all the bushes and various shifter parts with a metal bearing kit from the USA and it improved the feel no end, but it was still awful shifting into first and second. I hated it. That's the downside of long gear shift cables I guess.

It handled amazingly well, but it was all a bit too precise. It wasn't mad enough to be fun, whereas the Z4M is. The Z4M is much more happy being a lout! The Porsche is much more composed. I also missed the convertible roof on the Z4MR, although that's a non argument as you can get both cars in both guises (Cayman/Boxster - Z4MC/Z4MR). I did like the way I could fit standard Thule roof bars to the Cayman, so I could take my bike or kayak out. But now I just use my girlfriend's M135i instead.

I did seriously consider changing my 987.1 Cayman S for a 987.2 Cayman S with PDK and Sport Chrono. That was the reason I sold it initially. But then the opportunity to buy my old Z4MR came up, so I did.

I would seriously consider whether you can afford to go for the 987.2. The 987.1 was plagued with various engine problems which were sorted on the facelift. And it looks so much better. It's more money, but I think it will also hold its value better. And it will cost less in the long run. I was always scared that my 987.1 was going to cost me another bucket load of money, which took away from the enjoyment. I just don't have that worry in my Z4M.

In summary, the Cayman S is a very very good car, but not without its problems. It doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the BMW and really needs to be revved to get the power out of it. But it's precise and handles incredibly well.

Common issues:

Suspension bushes are terrible. Budget to have them all replaced. And ball joints. Mine all needed doing after 60k miles.
Gear shift bushes, cables and synchros. Test the gearbox properly.
Engine noise and oil consumption. Check for smoke and rattles. Do get a borescope check done by a specialist. Scored bores will cost you thousands to sort. The 987.2 won't suffer from scored bores as it has the later DFI engine with different liners.
Electric windows. They love to break regulators and motors. Mine did. £1000 per side!
Air con. Really check it works. Although it's not a difficult or expensive job, it's still a cost. The condensors get battered at the front of the car. I replaced mine myself. About £100 in parts for both sides, plus the cost for a professional to come in, vacuum and system and regas. £200 in total.
Clutches. They don't last long. Neither do flywheels. I think my car had lived in a town or city all its life prior to me owning it as it had had two clutch and flywheel changes in 65k miles! Not cheap! The clutch isn't the easiest thing to use on the Cayman. It's easy to ride the clutch and very easy to stall.
Rusting exhausts and loose heatshields. The exhausts are rubbish on them. Mine looked terrible, really rusty and the heatshields were loose as the fixing bolts had pulled through the heatshield. Used to rattle like mad!


I hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more info.

I would make sure you get a good extended test drive. Make sure you like it. I really liked mine and would get another, but I'd get a 987.2 PDK if I do it again.

Dan

Hi Dan,

On the subject of your car history, I'd be interested to know more about your Chim. A friend picked up a Cerb at the weekend - we drove to Bristol to get it and on the way back my ///M really paled into insignificance against something like a TVR. I'm not the quickest A-B driver, so prefer sound/looks/fun of the Chim/Cerb... debating putting my Zed up for sale therefore.

Hi JAD,

Sorry for the late reply. I've not been on here much, been so busy with work!

The Chimaera was great. I loved that car. It wasn't that fast, but plenty quick enough in reality. It didn't handle like a modern sports car, but it was great fun. The Cerbera is a different beast. With the more powerful engines, they are seriously quick. But also pretty scary!

My Griffith is now running the LS3 engine and it produces around 530hp. It's terrifyingly quick! You can't relax while you're driving it, you're always aware that it's more of a racing car, than a road car.

TVRs are great though. I love the community around the brand. The owners club is fantastic, there are events most weekends and it's really social. It makes the ownership more special. I would struggle to be without a TVR now. They are trying at times. They are plagued with electrical niggles, and obviously they're getting pretty old now, so they will have various problems. But they're usually pretty easy to maintain, access to most things is pretty good, given that they were handbuilt and parts are usually just old Ford, Vauxhall or Rover.

Happy to help with any specific questions you might have.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi JAD,

Sorry for the late reply. I've not been on here much, been so busy with work!

The Chimaera was great. I loved that car. It wasn't that fast, but plenty quick enough in reality. It didn't handle like a modern sports car, but it was great fun. The Cerbera is a different beast. With the more powerful engines, they are seriously quick. But also pretty scary!

My Griffith is now running the LS3 engine and it produces around 530hp. It's terrifyingly quick! You can't relax while you're driving it, you're always aware that it's more of a racing car, than a road car.

TVRs are great though. I love the community around the brand. The owners club is fantastic, there are events most weekends and it's really social. It makes the ownership more special. I would struggle to be without a TVR now. They are trying at times. They are plagued with electrical niggles, and obviously they're getting pretty old now, so they will have various problems. But they're usually pretty easy to maintain, access to most things is pretty good, given that they were handbuilt and parts are usually just old Ford, Vauxhall or Rover.

Happy to help with any specific questions you might have.

Not a problem, appreciate the response.

Interesting you say about the club - that's another big draw. I go to most of the classic car shows each year either in my Zed or in a few classics we/friends/my father has.

I think my ideal would be a 4.5 Chim, or even the 500. Like I say, it needs to be something rarer like the ///M over the standard E85, so my money is relatively well placed. I've been speaking to Amore Autos as the gents there are very helpful, having discussed various cars when we picked up the Cerb.

Any pointers on how best to go about buying would be great - my thoughts were to visit quite a few specialist dealerships like Amore to drive the cars, rather than dealing with GenPub, then widen my search. I think I'd rather have the back up of some sort of warranty, even if it's not the BMW/VW/Audi approved used I'm used to.

 

[dan yeates]

Hi JAD,

Sorry for the late reply. I've not been on here much, been so busy with work!

The Chimaera was great. I loved that car. It wasn't that fast, but plenty quick enough in reality. It didn't handle like a modern sports car, but it was great fun. The Cerbera is a different beast. With the more powerful engines, they are seriously quick. But also pretty scary!

My Griffith is now running the LS3 engine and it produces around 530hp. It's terrifyingly quick! You can't relax while you're driving it, you're always aware that it's more of a racing car, than a road car.

TVRs are great though. I love the community around the brand. The owners club is fantastic, there are events most weekends and it's really social. It makes the ownership more special. I would struggle to be without a TVR now. They are trying at times. They are plagued with electrical niggles, and obviously they're getting pretty old now, so they will have various problems. But they're usually pretty easy to maintain, access to most things is pretty good, given that they were handbuilt and parts are usually just old Ford, Vauxhall or Rover.

Happy to help with any specific questions you might have.

Not a problem, appreciate the response.

Interesting you say about the club - that's another big draw. I go to most of the classic car shows each year either in my Zed or in a few classics we/friends/my father has.

I think my ideal would be a 4.5 Chim, or even the 500. Like I say, it needs to be something rarer like the ///M over the standard E85, so my money is relatively well placed. I've been speaking to Amore Autos as the gents there are very helpful, having discussed various cars when we picked up the Cerb.

Any pointers on how best to go about buying would be great - my thoughts were to visit quite a few specialist dealerships like Amore to drive the cars, rather than dealing with GenPub, then widen my search. I think I'd rather have the back up of some sort of warranty, even if it's not the BMW/VW/Audi approved used I'm used to.

The Chimaera 450 is a really great car. Definitely a great place to put some money right now. They’ve not quite managed to rise up to the Chimaera 500 and Griffith values, but are starting to rise quite quickly now. Often referred to as the best engine choice out of them all too.

The Chimaera 400 was produced in much higher numbers, so the values aren’t rising quite as quickly as the 450 and 500.

They’re really very basic cars. Common pitfalls...chassis. Even if they look solid from underneath, the tops of the outriggers will be rotten. There’s very little chance any cars with original chassis’ are going to make it much more than 20 years. They weren’t very well prepared at the factory. If it’s on the original chassis with no welding or repainting, then budget at least for outriggers (£1500 ish) or a body off chassis restoration if you want to do it properly. Then you’re replacing all the bushes, suspension, fuel hoses, etc and it all starts to add up.

Otherwise it’s the usual electrical niggles. Check hot starting, electric window speed, boot release, gauges working properly, interior lights working etc.

Also check how smooth the car is to drive t lower revs. Around 1200 to 2000 RPM. They do sometimes have shunting issues.

Check the starter motor. They can fail as they’re close to the exhaust and also the wheelarch so get covered in muck which is then baked on. But they’re cheap to replace. Check condition of battery leads.

Check the condition of the roof and carpets. Nothing on them is particularly expensive and there are loads of specialists around. If you want a warranty, buy from a TVR specialist, and make sure the warranty is in-house and not a third party warranty.

 

[Anonymous]

List

A brilliant pointer, Dan - many thanks. Will let you know how I get on in my search.

 

[abar121]

The Chimaera are lovely cars. I certainly enjoyed those that I have driven. Such a wonderful engine note and a really old school feel to them that belies their age.

Great to cruise around in and enjoy that engine note. Just don't jack up one corner and look at the body lines. The flex is quite alarming!

 

[Beedub]

The Chimaera are lovely cars. I certainly enjoyed those that I have driven. Such a wonderful engine note and a really old school feel to them that belies their age.

Great to cruise around in and enjoy that engine note. Just don't jack up one corner and look at the body lines. The flex is quite alarming!

cant be that bad surely? don't think in all my years i ever read a comment about body flex on the TVRs....