The jab ..

[AlienZed]

Well i just had the astra zenica vaccine ,just need the second dose ,hopefully before 12 weeks time.
Roll on spring

 

[Z4C_er]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-to-talk-to-coronavirus-skeptics

Thanks for this. I started reading this article, and when I got to this point, I had to break out and comment on it.

The thing is, I don't trust big pharma, because nearly every counter argument or shred of evidence against these corporations is these days, either shut down or discredited out of hand. You have people dying soon after receiving the vaccine, but out comes the Jedi hand wave, and "it has nothing to do with the vaccine". I really can't believe what I read. Do they think people are that gullible? Others who dare to speak out and put themselves on a public forum are genuinely worried for their lives. Is that right? Who are they scared of? Some kook, or some corporation that wants to silence them? Look up Judy Mikovits. She spoke out and was jailed. When she emerged she was told to shut up or she'd be back behind bars. Why? Didn't matter they said. We'd make something up.
YouTube shuts down any counter argument against vaccine. That's not free speech, it's neither a discussion. It means the other side are either scared or have something to hide. These are fundamental, basic rules. I've said this many times before. When you shut down the opposing side in an argument or discussion, it's dictatorship.
So does Farcebook, so does Twatter. Is that right? Is this a democracy?
So when this happens, is it not fair for people to question what is going on and why?
...I could go on and on, but I'd be repeating most of what I've said on these pages.
Lastly, the title of the article is condescending and patronising. It puts anyone off. I don't deny that the Coronavirus exists, I question the mechanisms that have been put in place that go against a normal persons view of logic and reasonable amounts of governance.

 

[exdos]

I don't deny that the Coronavirus exists, I question the mechanisms that have been put in place that go against a normal persons view of logic and reasonable amounts of governance.

So are you saying that all the experts' advice and knowledge which have gone into the production of various vaccines and the strategic management of the pandemic (i.e. lockdown, mass vaccination etc.) is illogical to what you consider be the "normal person" (I assume you give yourself that description)?

 

[ronk]

I think no matter what academic evidence is given for the vaccine- the anti vax brigade have made their decision and they won’t be convinced otherwise

I give up !

PVR posted the the question:-

Will you take the COVID jab
Tö Date 72% have said YES
And only 11% have said NO

 

[Z4C_er]

I think no matter what academic evidence is given for the vaccine- the anti vax brigade have made their decision and they won’t be convinced otherwise

I give up !

PVR posted the the question:-

Will you take the COVID jab
Tö Date 72% have said YES
And only 11% have said NO

That's OK! Most people blindly trust what's going on. I don't.
...and don't label me 'anti-vax'. I am questioning a rushed roll-out of a vaccine that is supposed to save the world from a virus that has a 99.97% survival rate!
That, to me, is absurd. And when people won't see this point of view, I too go

 

[Z4C_er]

I don't deny that the Coronavirus exists, I question the mechanisms that have been put in place that go against a normal persons view of logic and reasonable amounts of governance.

So are you saying that all the experts' advice and knowledge which have gone into the production of various vaccines and the strategic management of the pandemic (i.e. lockdown, mass vaccination etc.) is illogical to what you consider be the "normal person" (I assume you give yourself that description)?

I have a question for you: if I blocked you from responding to me and refused to discuss anything with you, what would you think of me?
Worse, if I threatened you for having a different point of view, what then?

In answer to your question: I think the response to the pandemic is strategic in only one way. To get us to take a vaccine. Every offering of any alternative treatment has been summarily shut down. I have raised this a couple of times. Does anyone out there think it not even a little bit strange that after all the pro-vaccine propaganda the World Health Organisation re-writes the rules of what herd immunity means? After 100's of years of consensus by most of the doctors in the free world, it just overnight changes a definition in the middle of a pandemic, to suit the roll out of a vaccine!

 

[Nanu]

I’m not planning any substantial holiday wise until late summer - I’d like to know that I’m well jabbed up before I go away from my own home.

Looks like day trips only In early days.

Suspect that unless you are "jabbed up" you won't be able to go on a substantial holiday. Certainly not on a plane or a cruise anyway. Like you planning driving "down south" for long country house weekends looking for somewhere to move to.

It's OK, I will offer to wear a mask whilst on the plane.
Wait......... are you going to tell me masks are useless now?

Sorry but anticipate no vaccine no fly.

 

[Nanu]

Watched Van Tam explaining this a couple of weeks ago. He has a great knack of keeping things very simple. He asked if you had 2 elderly people and 2 doses of vaccine what would you do? Give both doses to one person giving them for instance 90% protection and the other nil. Or would you give one dose to each giving both 70% protection? He didn't answer as the choice is so obvious.

 

[Z4C_er]

Suspect that unless you are "jabbed up" you won't be able to go on a substantial holiday. Certainly not on a plane or a cruise anyway. Like you planning driving "down south" for long country house weekends looking for somewhere to move to.

It's OK, I will offer to wear a mask whilst on the plane.
Wait......... are you going to tell me masks are useless now?

Sorry but anticipate no vaccine no fly.

You sound like a bouncer at the door of a night club.
I anticipate that as well. Another reason why I believe there is an ulterior motive to this. When someone can explain to me and give me a logical reason why a mask is no longer satisfactory, then I may understand.

 

[Nictrix]

So do they have information on a difference of 12 weeks between doses now or is everybody that is part of the group that are being given doses 12 weeks apart part of the testing.
Unless I am missing something this info is not available yet as we are not 12 weeks into the program.

"What do the manufacturers say?
In a joint statement Pfizer and BioNTech said, “The safety and efficacy of the vaccine has not been evaluated on different dosing schedules as the majority of trial participants received the second dose within the window specified in the study design . . . There is no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days.”

The European Medicines Agency has said that the gap between the first and second doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine should not exceed 42 days. “Any change to this would require a variation to the marketing authorisation as well as more clinical data to support such a change, otherwise it would be considered as ‘off-label use,’” the agency said."

I do hope for everybody relying on the vaccines that this approach is not a waste of time, effort and money.

See: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n18
It states:
"The trials of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine did include different spacing between doses, finding that a longer gap (two to three months) led to a greater immune response, but the overall participant numbers were small. In the UK study 59% (1407 of 2377) of the participants who had two standard doses received the second dose between nine and 12 weeks after the first."

The government advisers aren't just making this stuff up: they're experts in their fields with specialist knowledge. Of course the C-19 in humans is novel, but the experts can see the data and compare it to the behaviours and patterns of all other known viruses and act accordingly. This is how scientific advances are made: they're not just blind leaps into the dark.

And this: https://assets.publishing.service.g...n-spc-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-reg174.pdf

And in that same report it states that
"the chief medical officers said that vaccine shortages were a major reason for the shift in approach"
This to me says that the experts with specialist knowledge are letting the government change the dosing spacing to suit the stock of vaccines and not changing it due to new information.
And then they seem to come up with a reason that fits this rather than sticking with what they started out doing.

 

[exdos]

I think no matter what academic evidence is given for the vaccine- the anti vax brigade have made their decision and they won’t be convinced otherwise

I give up !

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

 

[TitanTim]

The worrying thing for me is the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching Covid or passing it on and from the reaction I've seen of people who have received their first jab it's smiles and thumbs up thinking life will be back to normal soon. Question is will it. What happens if you've had the jabs and you're let loose back into society and you give the virus to someone who hasn't had the jab, regardless of age or their circumstances for not having the jab and that person dies from you passing it on. It might be someone in your family or whatever. So how does all this work out looking into the future.


Tim.

 

[Argyll Andy]

The worrying thing for me is the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching Covid or passing it on and from the reaction I've seen of people who have received their first jab it's smiles and thumbs up thinking life will be back to normal soon. Question is will it. What happens if you've had the jabs and you're let loose back into society and you give the virus to someone who hasn't had the jab, regardless of age or their circumstances for not having the jab and that person dies from you passing it on. It might be someone in your family or whatever. So how does all this work out looking into the future.


Tim.

Tim, I’ve just come off the phone to someone and he was asking about when I was getting the vaccine. I said soon but I’m really unsure what difference it’ll make. I concluded by saying by the looks of it , it’s going to make very little difference in what I can do or who I can mix with.

It’ll just hopefully give me a much better chance of survival than if I didn’t get it but I’ll still be surrounded by people who won’t get the vaccine, including my partner because they’re not in a risk category.

Using the calculator, she’s September until she’s due hers.

 

[Deleted member 32480]

The worrying thing for me is the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching Covid or passing it on and from the reaction I've seen of people who have received their first jab it's smiles and thumbs up thinking life will be back to normal soon. Question is will it. What happens if you've had the jabs and you're let loose back into society and you give the virus to someone who hasn't had the jab, regardless of age or their circumstances for not having the jab and that person dies from you passing it on. It might be someone in your family or whatever. So how does all this work out looking into the future.


Tim.

I look at the figures (including the age's of the people that die) every day Tim. My honest assessment is that there are so little deaths under the age of 40 that the chances of you killing a heathy younger family member (vaccine or no vaccine) are very very small. (Todays figures of under 40's that died in hospital was 3 people- they were aged between 20-39 - none were under 19).

I bet they thought the same back in 1918 when we had the last major incident but life went on. Life will go back to normal- probably not as soon as you want it too but it will none the less.

 

[Stevo1987]

The worrying thing for me is the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching Covid or passing it on and from the reaction I've seen of people who have received their first jab it's smiles and thumbs up thinking life will be back to normal soon. Question is will it. What happens if you've had the jabs and you're let loose back into society and you give the virus to someone who hasn't had the jab, regardless of age or their circumstances for not having the jab and that person dies from you passing it on. It might be someone in your family or whatever. So how does all this work out looking into the future.


Tim.

The latest I read was "we don't know" re: the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching Covid or passing it on. The seems to be a lot of "we don't know" about the whole thing. And I don't know sweet FA either.

 

[buzyg]

The worrying thing for me is the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching Covid or passing it on and from the reaction I've seen of people who have received their first jab it's smiles and thumbs up thinking life will be back to normal soon. Question is will it. What happens if you've had the jabs and you're let loose back into society and you give the virus to someone who hasn't had the jab, regardless of age or their circumstances for not having the jab and that person dies from you passing it on. It might be someone in your family or whatever. So how does all this work out looking into the future.


Tim.

Tim, I’ve just come off the phone to someone and he was asking about when I was getting the vaccine. I said soon but I’m really unsure what difference it’ll make. I concluded by saying by the looks of it , it’s going to make very little difference in what I can do or who I can mix with.

It’ll just hopefully give me a much better chance of survival than if I didn’t get it but I’ll still be surrounded by people who won’t get the vaccine, including my partner because they’re not in a risk category.

Using the calculator, she’s September until she’s due hers.

Similar situation here. MrsG has had her first Jab, as she works in care. No idea when I will get mine. So little is going to change in this household for a good while yet.

 

[Stevo1987]

The only one in my household to have had it and that is is my daughter. OK, she is a midwife but at 23 I can't see the benefit in her having it now compared to someone in their 70's say. Anyone care to explain that on the basis she could still catch it and pass it on.

 

[TitanTim]

As has been pointed out I guess once the over 50s and above have all been vaccinated then it significantly reduces the likelyhood people becoming ill and being hospitalised but there's still lots of unknowns, I only asked the question as I was under the impression there had been an increase of much younger persons being hospitalised.

All this talk of relaxing restrictions possibly by mid Feb worries me once supposidly all vulnerable groups will have received their jab by then.

Tim.

 

[Nanu]

I think no matter what academic evidence is given for the vaccine- the anti vax brigade have made their decision and they won’t be convinced otherwise

I give up !

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

I have no issues with the Anti vax brigade as long as they keep their opinions to themselves and don't try to influence others. Not interested in their reasoning at all. Just give each and everyone in their turn the offer of a vaccine, if they refuse then they go to the end of the list. When everyone who wants the vaccine has had it, offer the refuseniks it again. If they still don't want it then so be it. Let them live their lives with any consequences of their decisions

 

[Nanu]

Can't understand the younger / middle aged folk who say they don't tend to get ill r die from this virus so don't need the vaccine. Perhaps that is true but what about variants that may cause deaths in younger groups? At the moment the jury is out on whether those that have been vaccinated can catch it again and pass it on. Perhaps when we have that information which may come very soon, it will persuade many to get vaccinated.