The jab ..

[-Tom-]

The only one in my household to have had it and that is is my daughter. OK, she is a midwife but at 23 I can't see the benefit in her having it now compared to someone in their 70's say. Anyone care to explain that on the basis she could still catch it and pass it on.

I have had the AstraZeneca jab last Friday, working none stop in nhs Dentistry (I’m 33).

Funnily enough when discussing with lots of elderly patients, I mentioned that I wish I could have forfeited mine and given it to my parents or people their age. Everyone’s answer, including my parent’s was that they can shield, whereas I cannot. And it’s not a given just how somebody could react now, or later in life with potential vascular issues.

I still would have forfeited mine for now if it worked that way (it doesn’t), but that’s the view these lot would have had with the view of your daughter.

 

[Deleted member 32480]

what about variants that may cause deaths in younger groups

Which ones are these?

 

[Ole gits rule]

My wife has has her first jab (NHS) but not me even though I am a key worker and have to go into the office 3 days a week.

Nothing is going to change here but I will certainly be having the jab just to reduce the risk of getting ill if I catch the virus.

In Spain they are taking names of everyone who refuses the vaccine, have a feeling they may not get treatment if they get its.

 

[Flyingfifer]

I have had the AstraZeneca jab last Friday, working none stop in nhs Dentistry (I’m 33).

Funnily enough when discussing with lots of elderly patients, I mentioned that I wish I could have forfeited mine and given it to my parents or people their age. Everyone’s answer, including my parent’s was that they can shield, whereas I cannot. And it’s not a given just how somebody could react now, or later in life with potential vascular issues.

I still would have forfeited mine for now if it worked that way (it doesn’t), but that’s the view these lot would have had with the view of your daughter.

But as a dentist if you are a carrier (which you still can be after vaccination (assuming is not been confirmed/denied yet)) you will infect probably all your patients, if they are old and havent had the vaccine they could die, so the logic of vaccinating you doesn't really fit imo, the vaccine appears only to reduce the severity of symptoms and the longevity of being ill however without the vaccine the likelihood is that as a young person you would catch the thing and not suffer all that badly from it anyway! But by the same token I do think that all front line staff should be offered the vaccine as they are most at risk of catching it. Bit of a catch 22!

 

[Deleted member 32480]

if you are a carrier (which you still can be after vaccination (assuming is not been confirmed/denied yet))

We really need a yes or no answer on this. Pretty much the opening of society and how we do this is dependant on this question.

 

[Flyingfifer]

if you are a carrier (which you still can be after vaccination (assuming is not been confirmed/denied yet))

We really need a yes or no answer on this. Pretty much the opening of society and how we do this is dependant on this question.

Agreed, in addition to how long the vaccine actually lasts, the UK government have as little as 90days in official paperwork which would be just useless :thumbsdown:

 

[Crazy Harry]

I have had the AstraZeneca jab last Friday, working none stop in nhs Dentistry (I’m 33).

Funnily enough when discussing with lots of elderly patients, I mentioned that I wish I could have forfeited mine and given it to my parents or people their age. Everyone’s answer, including my parent’s was that they can shield, whereas I cannot. And it’s not a given just how somebody could react now, or later in life with potential vascular issues.

I still would have forfeited mine for now if it worked that way (it doesn’t), but that’s the view these lot would have had with the view of your daughter.

But as a dentist if you are a carrier (which you still can be after vaccination (assuming is not been confirmed/denied yet)) you will infect probably all your patients, if they are old and havent had the vaccine they could die, so the logic of vaccinating you doesn't really fit imo, the vaccine appears only to reduce the severity of symptoms and the longevity of being ill however without the vaccine the likelihood is that as a young person you would catch the thing and not suffer all that badly from it anyway! But by the same token I do think that all front line staff should be offered the vaccine as they are most at risk of catching it. Bit of a catch 22!

... but it does to some extend increase NHS capacity. Less ill; less chance of requiring hospital treatment or less time to recover so available to work. Small gains but might; down the line, make the difference of life or death to a cancer sufferer or god forbid if one of us bends our Zed and needs A&E treatment to find either no NHS staff or beds blocked by people ill with Covid. Marginal gains I know but look at the difference the compounding of marginal gains made to the British cycling team.

 

[Flyingfifer]

... but it does to some extend increase NHS capacity. Less ill; less chance of requiring hospital treatment or less time to recover so available to work. Small gains but might; down the line, make the difference of life or death to a cancer sufferer or god forbid if one of us bends our Zed and needs A&E treatment to find either no NHS staff or beds blocked by people ill with Covid. Marginal gains I know but look at the difference the compounding of marginal gains made to the British cycling team.

Cycling team... So we need to ignore road rules, wear lycra and consume lots and lots of soy? :scratchhead:

Totally get what you're saying and to an extent agree but devils advocate here, those same cancer patients could be infected by the healthcare team that have been vaccinated and end up dying from covid. Whereas if the patient had the vaccine they would be more likely to survive. Its really arguable in both directions.

 

[Crazy Harry]

... but it does to some extend increase NHS capacity. Less ill; less chance of requiring hospital treatment or less time to recover so available to work. Small gains but might; down the line, make the difference of life or death to a cancer sufferer or god forbid if one of us bends our Zed and needs A&E treatment to find either no NHS staff or beds blocked by people ill with Covid. Marginal gains I know but look at the difference the compounding of marginal gains made to the British cycling team.

Cycling team... So we need to ignore road rules, wear lycra and consume lots and lots of soy? :scratchhead:

Totally get what you're saying and to an extent agree but devils advocate here, those same cancer patients could be infected by the healthcare team that have been vaccinated and end up dying from covid. Whereas if the patient had the vaccine they would be more likely to survive. Its really arguable in both directions.

oooh.... didn't mention the vaccine stopping you getting it - just from a staff in post perspective it could shorten (not prevent) an absence. I'm not medical so cancer might be a bad example its the notion of important but non urgent stuff not getting done. I would also expect that protocols are in place to reduce possibility of transmission staff to cancer suffer. No axe to grid with you by the way just want to be clear.

 

[Flyingfifer]

oooh.... didn't mention the vaccine stopping you getting it - just from a staff in post perspective it could shorten (not prevent) an absence. I'm not medical so cancer might be a bad example its the notion of important but non urgent stuff not getting done. I would also expect that protocols are in place to reduce possibility of transmission staff to cancer suffer. No axe to grid with you by the way just want to be clear.

I suppose the two side of the coin are, do we protect the people most likely to die (old, infirm, ongoing health conditions) or the people most likely to get it (frontline staff) there are really arguments for and against both, I suppose the "perfect" solution would be a mix, frontline staff plus those that have to visit for things like medical treatment.

Non urgent as in the office workers at the NHS? I'd question why they are even at work in the first place, surely most can work from home, I suppose again devils advocate is that should all the back office staff end up with covid and being off the NHS couldnt function. There are so many variables and considerations tbh.

No offense/insult or argument here dude, I love a good discussion helps to flesh out your own perspective and maybe hear things you didnt know or havent considered. Especially with something like this, I dont actually have an opinion as such just a whole bunch of somewhat conflicting thoughts that I'm still trying to rationalise into something concrete so no worries and likewise!

 

[Pondy]

This poll needs to be started again IMO.

It was started in early December; a lot has changed since then and I am guessing the results will be different now.

 

[Nanu]

what about variants that may cause deaths in younger groups

Which ones are these?

The South African variant mainly but the the Brazil variant looks to be just as bad.

 

[Nanu]

oooh.... didn't mention the vaccine stopping you getting it - just from a staff in post perspective it could shorten (not prevent) an absence. I'm not medical so cancer might be a bad example its the notion of important but non urgent stuff not getting done. I would also expect that protocols are in place to reduce possibility of transmission staff to cancer suffer. No axe to grid with you by the way just want to be clear.

I suppose the two side of the coin are, do we protect the people most likely to die (old, infirm, ongoing health conditions) or the people most likely to get it (frontline staff) there are really arguments for and against both, I suppose the "perfect" solution would be a mix, frontline staff plus those that have to visit for things like medical treatment.

Non urgent as in the office workers at the NHS? I'd question why they are even at work in the first place, surely most can work from home, I suppose again devils advocate is that should all the back office staff end up with covid and being off the NHS couldnt function. There are so many variables and considerations tbh.

No offense/insult or argument here dude, I love a good discussion helps to flesh out your own perspective and maybe hear things you didnt know or havent considered. Especially with something like this, I dont actually have an opinion as such just a whole bunch of somewhat conflicting thoughts that I'm still trying to rationalise into something concrete so no worries and likewise!

I have a friend who works as a PA in the NHS. Never comes anywhere near patients but has had the vaccine. She says at the end of each day, if there are some not used for whatever reasons, it is offered to other staff. She has even heard of instances where staff have been asked if they know ANYONE who they can phone who could attend at a moments notice they can contact to come and get the spare vaccines.

 

[ronk]

I wish they would ‘phone me!

 

[Deleted member 32480]

what about variants that may cause deaths in younger groups

Which ones are these?

The South African variant mainly but the the Brazil variant looks to be just as bad.

Ah ok,

I didn't realise that they had any extra effect on the young.

I watch the death stats age wise regularly and have not noticed any difference in the under 40's so as of yet it hasn't translated into deaths yet.

 

[Deleted member 32480]

Interesting interview with Astra Zeneca CEO.

Rather long but some good questions asked.

https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

 

[Stevo1987]

I wish they would ‘phone me!

You are not worthy.

 

[Stevo1987]

I have had the AstraZeneca jab last Friday, working none stop in nhs Dentistry (I’m 33).

Funnily enough when discussing with lots of elderly patients, I mentioned that I wish I could have forfeited mine and given it to my parents or people their age. Everyone’s answer, including my parent’s was that they can shield, whereas I cannot. And it’s not a given just how somebody could react now, or later in life with potential vascular issues.

I still would have forfeited mine for now if it worked that way (it doesn’t), but that’s the view these lot would have had with the view of your daughter.

But as a dentist if you are a carrier (which you still can be after vaccination (assuming is not been confirmed/denied yet)) you will infect probably all your patients, if they are old and havent had the vaccine they could die, so the logic of vaccinating you doesn't really fit imo, the vaccine appears only to reduce the severity of symptoms and the longevity of being ill however without the vaccine the likelihood is that as a young person you would catch the thing and not suffer all that badly from it anyway! But by the same token I do think that all front line staff should be offered the vaccine as they are most at risk of catching it. Bit of a catch 22!

So front line staff are more at risk of catching it......hmm.... So with full PPE, sanitizing everything etc etc they are at more risk at catching it? That cloth face mask you bought off Amazon aint gonna do much good then.

 

[ProfCJJ]

so front line staff are more at risk of catching it......hmm.... so with full ppe, sanitizing everything etc etc they are at more risk at catching it? that cloth face mask you bought off amazon aint gonna do much good then.

Sorry, but this is not logical nor correct. the risk for the front line staff is still great, the risk is mitigated by the use of ppe etc but it is still great - because the the presence of the virus is ever there and the contact is always there - one slip up and the chance of getting it is large. on the flip side, the flimsy mask we wear in the supermarket mitigates the risk of catching the virus, it may be a relatively poor means of protection but the risk is lower than for front line staff so it is equally mitigated.

 

[Z4C_er]

so front line staff are more at risk of catching it......hmm.... so with full ppe, sanitizing everything etc etc they are at more risk at catching it? that cloth face mask you bought off amazon aint gonna do much good then.

Sorry, but this is not logical nor correct. the risk for the front line staff is still great, the risk is mitigated by the use of ppe etc but it is still great - because the the presence of the virus is ever there and the contact is always there - one slip up and the chance of getting it is large. on the flip side, the flimsy mask we wear in the supermarket mitigates the risk of catching the virus, it may be a relatively poor means of protection but the risk is lower than for front line staff so it is equally mitigated.

Here's a question for you. I know you'll colour it, but entertain me.
Two people stand next to each other - same age, weight, everything. Hell, just for the exercise, let's say the same person, just two of them.
One wears an approved PPE mask. One is vaccinated but wears no PPE whatsoever. I expose them to an aerosol from someone who has Covid and coughs in their direction from 2 metres away.
Who is most likely to catch the virus?