Supermarket petrol... yay or nay?
- Thread starter red_35is
- Start date
step_change said:
It's not, it has a basis in science. There is lots of data and manufacturer literature (e.g. the handbook for the Z4M) to support the idea that some engines can optimise for higher octane ratings. You are confusing a higher octane rating with the addition of additives such as detergents and friction reducers. It just so happens that both are features of "premium" fuel (V-Power, Momentum etc).
[EDIT - wait, what you are actually saying? You said the whole thing is a marketing gimmick but also that some of it is supported by science.]
I'm not pretending that the very modest gains that can be extracted from 98/99 RON fuel by a normally aspirated engine are worth it, but they aren't "magic".
MrPT said:
The science may be irrefutable. But it's the practical application of that science in the real world that will justify whether the extra cost is worth it. (EDIT: And marketing loves to exploit science to back their sales pitch up
)It's a diminishing returns game. You pay 10p or more per litre extra for an infinitesimally small real world and practical "benefit". Enthusiasts (including many on here - a Z4 enthusiasts forum) will pay that extra and if that makes them happy then good for them and it's not for me to spoil their party. I'm replying to the thread with my own experience, not to offend anyone. I used Super all the time at one point but on one occasion I had to drop to standard because it was all that was available at the petrol station and i was on vapour. I was expecting the sky to fall when I drove off. But I really could not tell the difference in my own case of mixed driving. Sure, maybe if you drive around the Alps or on bendy, open roads all day long then possibly there could be a slight benefit.
If people prefer Super then good for them. Just adding another dimension to the discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NdrSCydaFc&t=941s
Maybe if you were doing this Super may benefit. Not on the A46 I've noticed
Maybe if you were doing this Super may benefit. Not on the A46 I've noticed
step_change said:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NdrSCydaFc&t=941s
Maybe if you were doing this Super may benefit. Not on the A46 I've noticed
Hi, aside from any small performance benefits super unleaded has added detergent qualities to clean the combustion areas of the engine
Rob
step_change said:The science may be irrefutable. But it's the practical application of that science in the real world that will justify whether the extra cost is worth it. (EDIT: And marketing loves to exploit science to back their sales pitch up
It's a diminishing returns game. You pay 10p or more per litre extra for an infinitesimally small real world and practical "benefit". Enthusiasts (including many on here - a Z4 enthusiasts forum) will pay that extra and if that makes them happy then good for them and it's not for me to spoil their party. I'm replying to the thread with my own experience, not to offend anyone. I used Super all the time at one point but on one occasion I had to drop to standard because it was all that was available at the petrol station and i was on vapour. I was expecting the sky to fall when I drove off. But I really could not tell the difference in my own case of mixed driving. Sure, maybe if you drive around the Alps or on bendy, open roads all day long then possibly there could be a slight benefit.
If people prefer Super then good for them. Just adding another dimension to the discussion.
I think we are in agreement. I doubt I could tell the difference in real world performance either. You do hear a lot of rubbish like "my car LITERALLY CAME ALIVE" etc.
It's just annoying that octane rating gets lumped in with additional claims re. additives which, as you say, marketeers use to drive up the cost. The bhp boost on its own won't justify the product placement, because it's too small and too subject to engine type, atmospheric conditions etc, and the additive claims are largely unverifiable and might just be snake oil.
If you think about it, a consistent, 5bhp gain on a 340bhp, 5000 mile/yr car that does about 25mpg is a bigger % gain than the % weight reduction from lightweight seats or alloys, or the economy gains claimed by electric vs hydraulic power steering. Not a mathematically sound comparison, but one that is compatible with the kind of logic people use when they buy these cars.
MrPT said:step_change said:The science may be irrefutable. But it's the practical application of that science in the real world that will justify whether the extra cost is worth it. (EDIT: And marketing loves to exploit science to back their sales pitch up
It's a diminishing returns game. You pay 10p or more per litre extra for an infinitesimally small real world and practical "benefit". Enthusiasts (including many on here - a Z4 enthusiasts forum) will pay that extra and if that makes them happy then good for them and it's not for me to spoil their party. I'm replying to the thread with my own experience, not to offend anyone. I used Super all the time at one point but on one occasion I had to drop to standard because it was all that was available at the petrol station and i was on vapour. I was expecting the sky to fall when I drove off. But I really could not tell the difference in my own case of mixed driving. Sure, maybe if you drive around the Alps or on bendy, open roads all day long then possibly there could be a slight benefit.
If people prefer Super then good for them. Just adding another dimension to the discussion.
I think we are in agreement. I doubt I could tell the difference in real world performance either. You do hear a lot of rubbish like "my car LITERALLY CAME ALIVE" etc.
It's just annoying that octane rating gets lumped in with additional claims re. additives which, as you say, marketeers use to drive up the cost. The bhp boost on its own won't justify the product placement, because it's too small and too subject to engine type, atmospheric conditions etc, and the additive claims are largely unverifiable and might just be snake oil.
If you think about it, a consistent, 5bhp gain on a 340bhp, 5000 mile/yr car that does about 25mpg is a bigger % gain than the % weight reduction from lightweight seats or alloys, or the economy gains claimed by electric vs hydraulic power steering. Not a mathematically sound comparison, but one that is compatible with the kind of logic people use when they buy these cars.
Did you just mention man maths? Worth every penny imho
Rob
North West Surrey
I had an issue 2 years ago when I got an Amber EML for Cat faults. When my Indy deleted the codes he put a bottle of Cataclean in it and recommended running it on Shell Super because the additives in that ought to help.
But as the battery had to be replaced at the same time I'm wondering if the fault was one of those random things BMWs do when the battery is past it's best! :?
I still put high octane in, but Tesco Momentum as Tesco is my nearest filling station and there is only a few pence difference in price between Momentum and standard fuel.
Whereas my local Shell may be near the Tesco price for standard fuel, but their Super is more than 10p a litre dearer - thieving b*stards. :evil:
I know the N52 engine is designed to run on either, but I'll spoil my Z4 for the sake of a couple of quid a tankful!
My daily (also an N52 engine) usually gets standard fuel but doesn't seem to mind.
But as the battery had to be replaced at the same time I'm wondering if the fault was one of those random things BMWs do when the battery is past it's best! :?
I still put high octane in, but Tesco Momentum as Tesco is my nearest filling station and there is only a few pence difference in price between Momentum and standard fuel.
Whereas my local Shell may be near the Tesco price for standard fuel, but their Super is more than 10p a litre dearer - thieving b*stards. :evil:
I know the N52 engine is designed to run on either, but I'll spoil my Z4 for the sake of a couple of quid a tankful!
My daily (also an N52 engine) usually gets standard fuel but doesn't seem to mind.
Day to day I use whatever I can get that’s cheap. My daily commute doesn’t really allow for much excitement so cheaper is better. Having said that, I will use a super at least every 3rd tankful as I really do believe in the cleaning properties of the additives. I’ve seen MX5 engines stripped down and it’s easy to see which have lived on a diet of super compared to a diet of supermarket fuel.
Same goes for engine oil. High quality full synthetic over standard mineral oil every time.
Same goes for engine oil. High quality full synthetic over standard mineral oil every time.
Some engines are designed to run on Super and if you don’t use it the knocking sensor should detect a change in combustion and change the timing accordingly and this helps compensates for when you don’t use the recommended fuel. Unfortunately we also have a R32 GTR which doesn’t act very well at all on standard fuel and it’s not a fun ride.
Other thing to remember is higher octane fuel degrades quicker and so no point in sticking a full tank in and then leaving it sitting for a month. Likewise if you are using Super it’s best to use a busy station as they probably have fresher fuel than somewhere with less customers.
So the guys with the N52 engines will have advice in the handbook and petrol flap to run on 97ron and all E89s state 95ron which was always something I found a little strange in the 35is considering the same engine was in 1M which states 98 Ron or super plus as BMW seem to refer to it in the handbook.
Pay your money, make your choices and I’m sure the world will keep on turning.
Other thing to remember is higher octane fuel degrades quicker and so no point in sticking a full tank in and then leaving it sitting for a month. Likewise if you are using Super it’s best to use a busy station as they probably have fresher fuel than somewhere with less customers.
So the guys with the N52 engines will have advice in the handbook and petrol flap to run on 97ron and all E89s state 95ron which was always something I found a little strange in the 35is considering the same engine was in 1M which states 98 Ron or super plus as BMW seem to refer to it in the handbook.
Pay your money, make your choices and I’m sure the world will keep on turning.
Twin Turbo
Active member
only use Shell, Tesco m or Cost Co - super unleaded
It worth remembering with this that trying one tank of super then switching back wont cut the mustard. You'll end up mixing the fuels and have a half way house fuel grade in your tank. The ecu itself takes time to adapt to differing fuel octanes and the general advice is to run at least 3-4 tank fulls to get the full effect of a fuel switch.
At the end of the day not all cars benefit from super. If your cars not mapped from the factory to use super you probably won't see much difference, but if it is you will and this is particularly true with vehicles are remapped, especially when they're remapped with higher octanes in mind.
At the end of the day not all cars benefit from super. If your cars not mapped from the factory to use super you probably won't see much difference, but if it is you will and this is particularly true with vehicles are remapped, especially when they're remapped with higher octanes in mind.
1066 Country
Find the super Tesco stuff very good from a fresh fill, though seems to go off/loose its edge after a few days... could be the high Ethanol content...
However, one noticeable thing I’ve found time & time again with our 2 oil burning diesels.... fill up on the continent & a tank lasts noticeably longer (eg the XC60 will easily do well over 600 miles when filled in EU then driven back around the UK... whereas 550 tends to be the UK norm) - it’s almost as if they have better (& cheaper) fuel
However, one noticeable thing I’ve found time & time again with our 2 oil burning diesels.... fill up on the continent & a tank lasts noticeably longer (eg the XC60 will easily do well over 600 miles when filled in EU then driven back around the UK... whereas 550 tends to be the UK norm) - it’s almost as if they have better (& cheaper) fuel
My old E46 M3 which had decat and remap would occasionally backfire like a beast when cold on anything other than Shell Nitro.
Another car, Corrado VR6T, ran much better on Nitro than anything else, even Tesco 99.
Now I am in a standard car that isn't highly strung I don't care as much, but do try and use shell where I can.
Another car, Corrado VR6T, ran much better on Nitro than anything else, even Tesco 99.
Now I am in a standard car that isn't highly strung I don't care as much, but do try and use shell where I can.