some pics for your viewing pleasure ;-)
- Thread starter Beedub
- Start date
billy some things you wont no about putting a BBK on a z4,
you will need to space your front wheel by about 10mm, i used a 12mm spacer for a proper hubcentric fit, 10mm isnt ideal as the hud extends further than 10mm creating a gap, thus vibration can occur, 12mm is a proper hubcentric no gaps fit, can you get me the offset figures for your front wheels??
you will need to modify the front rotor splash gaurds, the bigger caliper and disc WILL NOT fit and will foul the backing plates, i used a cutting wheel on an angle grinder and lop off the corners and to get a perfect cut on the backing plates, as you can see in my pics you wouldnt no unless i told you ;-) this job must be done neatly and i really took my time with this.
my AP discs came with locating holes in the rotor hat for the three locating pins on your hub, your D2 kit doesnt, so you need to use a hammer and knock these pins into the hub or drill the rotor hat, personally i would use the hammer method, dont worry you still have the screw in location holes to locate the disc, i was very happy to see my AP kit came with all the holes pre drilled for me.
make sure you have 271 loctite for the caliper carrier bolts, APs instructs to torque to 68nm, you kill will have specific instructions.
i purchased the halford one man kit and got my o/h to pump the pedal for me, this 5.99 kit did a PERFECT job, no air and a rock solid pedal.
you need 4 brake line spanners, for the front i believe its 14mm and 11mm needed, use a cap to cap the line this will completly stop flow from the line, also have some soapy water to wash off the residue.... honestly once youve cut the backing plate the rest is easy, just be very prepared with tools and you'll breeze it, all four took me from 6am to5.30pm, the front 2 will be a breeze.
you will need to space your front wheel by about 10mm, i used a 12mm spacer for a proper hubcentric fit, 10mm isnt ideal as the hud extends further than 10mm creating a gap, thus vibration can occur, 12mm is a proper hubcentric no gaps fit, can you get me the offset figures for your front wheels??
you will need to modify the front rotor splash gaurds, the bigger caliper and disc WILL NOT fit and will foul the backing plates, i used a cutting wheel on an angle grinder and lop off the corners and to get a perfect cut on the backing plates, as you can see in my pics you wouldnt no unless i told you ;-) this job must be done neatly and i really took my time with this.
my AP discs came with locating holes in the rotor hat for the three locating pins on your hub, your D2 kit doesnt, so you need to use a hammer and knock these pins into the hub or drill the rotor hat, personally i would use the hammer method, dont worry you still have the screw in location holes to locate the disc, i was very happy to see my AP kit came with all the holes pre drilled for me.
make sure you have 271 loctite for the caliper carrier bolts, APs instructs to torque to 68nm, you kill will have specific instructions.
i purchased the halford one man kit and got my o/h to pump the pedal for me, this 5.99 kit did a PERFECT job, no air and a rock solid pedal.
you need 4 brake line spanners, for the front i believe its 14mm and 11mm needed, use a cap to cap the line this will completly stop flow from the line, also have some soapy water to wash off the residue.... honestly once youve cut the backing plate the rest is easy, just be very prepared with tools and you'll breeze it, all four took me from 6am to5.30pm, the front 2 will be a breeze.
billygilly
Active member
BEEDUB your a legend thanks very much for going to the effort to write this, I get back from the desert for a week in April so I'll either crack it out then or August when I'm back.
Still a bit worried about this bit:
my AP discs came with locating holes in the rotor hat for the three locating pins on your hub, your D2 kit doesnt, so you need to use a hammer and knock these pins into the hub or drill the rotor hat, personally i would use the hammer metho, dont worry you still have the srew in location holes to locate the disc, i was very happy to see my AP kit came with all the holes pre drilled for me.
You must be quite confident to crack on with these tasks
Still a bit worried about this bit:
my AP discs came with locating holes in the rotor hat for the three locating pins on your hub, your D2 kit doesnt, so you need to use a hammer and knock these pins into the hub or drill the rotor hat, personally i would use the hammer metho, dont worry you still have the srew in location holes to locate the disc, i was very happy to see my AP kit came with all the holes pre drilled for me.
You must be quite confident to crack on with these tasks
billygilly
Active member
Ok last stupid question Beedub are the spacers cheap and if you dont have them do the calipers come to close to alloys?
i need to know the offset for your front wheels, can you find that out for me??
without the spacer the wheel simply wont fit, lol, it'll just hit the caliper you simply wont be able to bolt on the wheel, without spacers this wont work,, unfortunatly we cant escape the z4s shitty front offsets, infact most bmws need spacers where BBks are concerned....... my pics shows how close the caliper is to the wheel AFTER the 12mm spacer was added, but the AP 6pot is a huge piece.
i have eibach spacers which run about 90 quid, lots of people use the tp racing units, great quality and only 40ish quid.
without the spacer the wheel simply wont fit, lol, it'll just hit the caliper you simply wont be able to bolt on the wheel, without spacers this wont work,, unfortunatly we cant escape the z4s shitty front offsets, infact most bmws need spacers where BBks are concerned....... my pics shows how close the caliper is to the wheel AFTER the 12mm spacer was added, but the AP 6pot is a huge piece.
i have eibach spacers which run about 90 quid, lots of people use the tp racing units, great quality and only 40ish quid.
billygilly
Active member
Really i dont know how you put up with me, I'll have to wait till april for offsets as i'm away with work, believe 35 ish thou
if youve got offset 35 im almost certain you wont need spacing..... your just within the window... just!
im certain it'll work.
remember you need an angle grinder with a cutting wheel to make a realy nice job on the backing plates, look closely look at my pics and you'll see you actually cant see the cuts on the backing plates, take particular attention with this part
other than that its a walk n the park and very satisfying to know youve done it alone.
you WILL panick the first time you drive the vehicle!! you will constantly ask yourself, did i tighten this? did i tighten that?? i must a have checked about a thousand times!! every tiny smidgen of brake fluid i see i panick its leaing, but its usually residuals left over from the install (you just simply cant clean every nuck and cranny), just double check everything and you'll be fine.
if i can give you any advice make sure the HUB is perfectly clean from rust, get a drill with a wirebrush end and this will make light work of this, dont forget to use a smear and i mean a smear of anti sieze (copperslip)
bleed nipples on the caliper torque to 17nm ;-)
use a good quality brake fluid.... i went with AP formulae 5.1... bleeding is the easy bit ;-) just takes alittle time to do correctly, as long as you dont let it go under the min mark no problems will occur.
the one man halfords ezee bleed is a great piece of kit for the tool box and costs like 6 quid!
i did however use another person and really got a good rock hard pedal.
after doign all this i realised just how much BMW are making on these fluid swaps!!
im certain it'll work.
remember you need an angle grinder with a cutting wheel to make a realy nice job on the backing plates, look closely look at my pics and you'll see you actually cant see the cuts on the backing plates, take particular attention with this part
other than that its a walk n the park and very satisfying to know youve done it alone.
you WILL panick the first time you drive the vehicle!! you will constantly ask yourself, did i tighten this? did i tighten that?? i must a have checked about a thousand times!! every tiny smidgen of brake fluid i see i panick its leaing, but its usually residuals left over from the install (you just simply cant clean every nuck and cranny), just double check everything and you'll be fine.
if i can give you any advice make sure the HUB is perfectly clean from rust, get a drill with a wirebrush end and this will make light work of this, dont forget to use a smear and i mean a smear of anti sieze (copperslip)
bleed nipples on the caliper torque to 17nm ;-)
use a good quality brake fluid.... i went with AP formulae 5.1... bleeding is the easy bit ;-) just takes alittle time to do correctly, as long as you dont let it go under the min mark no problems will occur.
the one man halfords ezee bleed is a great piece of kit for the tool box and costs like 6 quid!
i did however use another person and really got a good rock hard pedal.
after doign all this i realised just how much BMW are making on these fluid swaps!!
Beedub said:
Spacer where needed with your AP kit in combination with oem 19" CSL wheels? That's bad news!!!
Spacers are not approved on cars in Belgium and with spacers I will fail MOT... But maybe you have a different AP kit, then the one I'm looking at?About your AP kit; you say the front is 370mm and the rear 328mm... The Z4M kit I have found on the AP website is 356mm (6 pot) for the front and 325mm (4 pot) for the rear. It also states that the oem 18" wheels will fit with this kit (don't know about the CSL wheels). I did not know there are two AP kit's on sale for the Z4M. Can not find yous size of discs on the AP website...
hi franzino.... the kit on their site is a thinner calipered, slightly smaller setup...... i have the full fat full width and slightly larger setup.......
just to let you no the thinner caliper kits uses a slim line caliper design and a much slimmer pad.... i believe these ones were made to fit without spacers.... i still think a small spacer would be required, Red caliper is also an optional extra.
the calipers on my setup are for full width pads, even spaced they are very close as you can see from my pics, but im glad i have this for a much greater pad choice.... the front rotors are huge...... the rear rotors are direct replacements for the stock items, and are the same size as the stock rotors, the front rotors are truely massive...... and the calipers.... wow..... massive is not the word..... even better is everything from AP was lighter bar the rear calipers.
honestly i think the stock brakes on a stock car are more than upto the job.... i ran the stock setup on my charged car and honestly the were brilliant, i just knew that i need the extra stopping power for the extra 100+bhp..
all you need is good pads, braided lines and good fluid!! you will not notice the stock brakes with this setup.
just to let you no the thinner caliper kits uses a slim line caliper design and a much slimmer pad.... i believe these ones were made to fit without spacers.... i still think a small spacer would be required, Red caliper is also an optional extra.
the calipers on my setup are for full width pads, even spaced they are very close as you can see from my pics, but im glad i have this for a much greater pad choice.... the front rotors are huge...... the rear rotors are direct replacements for the stock items, and are the same size as the stock rotors, the front rotors are truely massive...... and the calipers.... wow..... massive is not the word..... even better is everything from AP was lighter bar the rear calipers.
honestly i think the stock brakes on a stock car are more than upto the job.... i ran the stock setup on my charged car and honestly the were brilliant, i just knew that i need the extra stopping power for the extra 100+bhp..
all you need is good pads, braided lines and good fluid!! you will not notice the stock brakes with this setup.
Then you probably have the kit that was originally intended for the M3 E46. With some small modification (up front) it will fit also under the Z4M. For the e46 M3 there is indeed a big and smal kit. They both fit on the Z4M, but the smaller AP kit is now offered as the specific kit for the Z4M.Beedub said:
For normal road use the standard brakes are indeed ok. On a track the standard brakes don’t work that good. I don’t know how much better they are going to be on a track with different pads, steel lines and high temperature brake fluid. I don't care about the look of the AP kit. Ok they look good, but that will never be the reason why I would buy them. For me it's the upgraded brake power (and less fading) that's the most important.Beedub said:
I was thinking of fitting the AP kit (front only) for the occasional trackday and trips to the Nürburgring (I live 2hours from the NS). My Z4M will see a track around 10-12 days a year. Do you still think the stock brakes with the other pads, lines and fluids will be up to this job?
Franzino said:
Any kit that fits the e46 m3 csl fits our perfectly....... Their are no mods to fit the larger kit, simple bolt on.... but i see what your saying...
the thinner calipered one is for straight stock z4m fitment.... the full fat is for larger wheels ect ect
honestly i cant explain to yo how braking feels now....... the pedal is rock and i mean rock solid, so posstive in braking, with the rear 4 pots installed i noticed one massive difference, the braking bias has now changed, the car is using the rears much more and braking feel much more balanced, the dive is much less pronucned and the car stops on a dime........ my stock setup could never make my Ps2s chirp under braking, even on the front when the tyres were hot, i can now hear chirping coming from all directions, braking is now awesome....
with those type of trackdays you really need a BBK......... my favourites are the AP and the stoptech kits............
my first trackday is soon!! cant wait to really push these brakes......
Honestly though try some lines, proper pads and fluid... you'll be amazed at the difference......
BTW i just looked at the boxes for my AP kit.... its say bmw e46 M3 CSL/ Z4m so the larger calipers/ discs are indeed m3 based, but fitment is listed for z4m also... bear in mind AP will adapt anythink for you, from floating rotors, to j hooks......
honestly, i got a great deal on a full fat FULL front and rear kit that had only done 300 miles, i got the whole loy for cheaper than just the fronts.... if i was buying... i would only get the fronts..... the rears have defiantly changed the bias for the better though!!
I was also looking at Stoptech, but even the small Stoptech kit did not fit without spacer behind my oem CSL wheels... So I went looking for other options and then I found the small AP kit, that would probably fit without spacer (still not 100% sure).
My oem front discs need replacement this summer; so one way ore another I'm going to do a brake upgrade (also with the trackdays in mind). The price difference between an upgraded oem BMW set-up and the AP racing kit (front only) is £1.223 (ecxl. VAT).
Front oem discs + Braided Hoses + Brake Fluids + Ferodo Brake Pads front and rear
=> £732 (excl VAT)
AP racing Front (CP5575-1010BK.G8: incl; AP discs, braided hoses, dot 5.1 brake fluid, Ferodo DS2500 pads) + Ferodo pads rear for oem calipers
=> £1.955 (excl. VAT)
Would it be fine to fit the AP racing Kit only to the front and keep the rear oem (with the same upgrade pads). Would this disturb the brake balance (ABS, DSC)? This quote I have found on another forum; the guy was talking about a BBK kit on a M5
My oem front discs need replacement this summer; so one way ore another I'm going to do a brake upgrade (also with the trackdays in mind). The price difference between an upgraded oem BMW set-up and the AP racing kit (front only) is £1.223 (ecxl. VAT).
Front oem discs + Braided Hoses + Brake Fluids + Ferodo Brake Pads front and rear
=> £732 (excl VAT)
AP racing Front (CP5575-1010BK.G8: incl; AP discs, braided hoses, dot 5.1 brake fluid, Ferodo DS2500 pads) + Ferodo pads rear for oem calipers
=> £1.955 (excl. VAT)
Would it be fine to fit the AP racing Kit only to the front and keep the rear oem (with the same upgrade pads). Would this disturb the brake balance (ABS, DSC)? This quote I have found on another forum; the guy was talking about a BBK kit on a M5
yes i no mny many people that only do the fronts....
but i will definatly say the FIRST things i noticed were the outright stopping power and how balanced the cars feel under heavy braking, think like this...... at the moment you have 1 piston per rear caliper... after the upgrade the rears have 4 per caliper, the braking difference, the rears i definatly a massive difference...
the fronts is obviously the most biggest change but the rear was areal suprise to me hw much difference was made......
6pots upfront and 4 rear....... perfect......
one of the german guys has the k-sport kit, front and rear which is cheaper than just the AP fronts...... and its the same size but..... AP, Brembo, stoptech are the best in the business......
AP tune the kits differently so that the brake bias is as balanced as possible depending on if you go full kit or just fronts.... you will have no problems with ABS, DSC at all, as non of the systems are caliper/rotor mounted.......
BE Warned im almost certain some sort of spacer will need to be used even with the slim caliper...
look at my pics...... ive used a 12mm hubcentric spacer and see just how the caliper is spokes....
i cant put my finger between the gap....... i havent seen a slimline caliper but unless its realllllyyyy slim, i cant see it not needing spacers...... also with the slimline calipers i dont like the idea of much less pad options being available, the pads for the slimline version must really loose ALOT of the meat of the pad which is kinda pointless imo on a brake system designed for prolonged hard use
but i will definatly say the FIRST things i noticed were the outright stopping power and how balanced the cars feel under heavy braking, think like this...... at the moment you have 1 piston per rear caliper... after the upgrade the rears have 4 per caliper, the braking difference, the rears i definatly a massive difference...
the fronts is obviously the most biggest change but the rear was areal suprise to me hw much difference was made......
6pots upfront and 4 rear....... perfect......
one of the german guys has the k-sport kit, front and rear which is cheaper than just the AP fronts...... and its the same size but..... AP, Brembo, stoptech are the best in the business......
AP tune the kits differently so that the brake bias is as balanced as possible depending on if you go full kit or just fronts.... you will have no problems with ABS, DSC at all, as non of the systems are caliper/rotor mounted.......
BE Warned im almost certain some sort of spacer will need to be used even with the slim caliper...
look at my pics...... ive used a 12mm hubcentric spacer and see just how the caliper is spokes....
i cant put my finger between the gap....... i havent seen a slimline caliper but unless its realllllyyyy slim, i cant see it not needing spacers...... also with the slimline calipers i dont like the idea of much less pad options being available, the pads for the slimline version must really loose ALOT of the meat of the pad which is kinda pointless imo on a brake system designed for prolonged hard use
I have read good things and bad things about K-sport. I have never read anything bad about AP. Brakes are an important element on a car and for me it's not something were I want to be cheap. If I fit a BBK, then I'm doing it good and I will buy something from a well known brand. But that just me...Beedub said:
I have send a email to Thorney Motorsport. On there website they have a blue Z4M with 19" CSL wheels and the CP5575-1010B AP kit fitted. They will know for certain if spacers are necessary with CSL wheelsBeedub said:
http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/products/product_info.php?products_id=4422&osCsid=be96e83b168584f5062c5e192474b51a
Aliv6 said:
these 75mm studs are designed to allow upto 12.5mm spacer..... the fronts have a 12mm spacer, the rears dont But, the photos appear to make them stand proud but they dont..... this has been one of my favourite mods.... its soooo easy to take the wheels on and off, i can take 2 wheels off in under 8 mins, so quick and easy... plus the added strength is a bonus for me..... i think they look awesome!! very very pleased with them..... and the nuts...... well they're a work of art...
ga41 said:Just to add to the confusion, a mate of mine has a CSL and he's got a front and rear AP Racing set on his without the need for spacers or anything....
Beedub, they look great mate, would love to see some photos or video of then in action!
you will soon!!!!!!!