So what next after 'dead4'?

[R.E92]

It all really depends on what you value in a car, since the car is purely a toy you want something that makes you smile and if that's speed and a great sounding engine the 3 litre twin turbo is the only choice. If engine and exhaust note is not something you're bothered about and you just want a convertible to waft around in then the 20i would do the job and be cheaper to keep on the road.

The 30i sounds great but give it a couple of weeks and you'll be back on the forums asking how to get more power out of it!

I wouldn't be put off the DCT in the 35i and 35is models, it shifts faster than the standard 8 speed auto and provides more dramatic gear changes without the normal torque converter slip you get in the 8 speed. But for a car that's purely a toy you might want to consider a manual.

For other marques you could look at the TTRS for something great sounding and rapid, or spend a little more and get a Jaguar F-Type, that's the king of toy cars

Just to clarify...the ZF8HP box shifts at 200ms which is slower than the 35i getrag box, but not by much...it’s interesting to note the 28i manual is nearly 0.5 sec slower to 60 than the auto as a human can’t shift as fast as the ZF box...that’s why it’s now standard on m2 m3 m5

As part of that the ZF box has auto lockup in all forward gears so there is no torque converter slip once rolling..p.us it’s more reliable as no need to replace clutch packs etc...the getrag box was a product of a lack at that time of the 8hp box and it’s then max torque limits

Today all new M series as well as many astons / lambos etc use the 8hp

The BMW literature on the DCT pins the shift times at 2ms but quoted DCT shift times seem to vary between less than 1 ms and 50ms depending on source. Even at the higher figure it makes the ZF8 look glacial at 200ms.

You don't have to replace clutch packs on the DCT. I've not seen any threads about such a failure. There's been a few reports of people having the box replaced but no more than ZF8 replacements.

Aston Martin have never been known for utilising the best transmissions, their dim witted torque converter gearboxes have been a major problem for years according to reviews. The new M2 and M4 come with a DCT and Lambo put a DCT in the Huracan and an automated manual in the Aventador.
Even Mercedes who have been putting torque converters into everything for decades have swapped to DCT for their high end cars.
The new Ferrari F8 comes with a 7 speed DCT too. You've really got to dig to find anything sporty with a ZF8.

The ZF8 is cheaper to produce and smoother in city traffic. It makes sense for certain vehicles but it's really not designed to beat the DCT for driver engagement and performance.

 

[Silverstar]

If it has to be an E89 I'd go for the 30i you still get that sweet inline 6 but without the complications of the N54 and they are rarer than most of the other engines. You could pick a very good low mileage example for around 11 to 13K. I am bit biased though since I have one :lol: Other then that as someone else has suggested I think the E86 M Coupe would be a good weekend toy!

It’s not going to be any newer than the op’s 35is though, they stopped the 30i in 2011 didn’t they? :?
Rob

True last registered examples are in 2012, makes them a fairly rare beast in comparison to the other models particularly since during this period most purchased the 23i. Is the OP's prime objective to have something newer?

The 30i sounds great but give it a couple of weeks and you'll be back on the forums asking how to get more power out of it!

The 30i is plenty fast enough, I never felt that I need to make it faster and it isn't that far off from a non tuned 35i or 28i. But of course if speed is your outright objective it has to be the 35i or 35is but then you've got to be prepared for the mechanical headaches that come with those cars as the OP has already experienced.

 

[sunnydays]

It all really depends on what you value in a car, since the car is purely a toy you want something that makes you smile and if that's speed and a great sounding engine the 3 litre twin turbo is the only choice. If engine and exhaust note is not something you're bothered about and you just want a convertible to waft around in then the 20i would do the job and be cheaper to keep on the road.

The 30i sounds great but give it a couple of weeks and you'll be back on the forums asking how to get more power out of it!

I wouldn't be put off the DCT in the 35i and 35is models, it shifts faster than the standard 8 speed auto and provides more dramatic gear changes without the normal torque converter slip you get in the 8 speed. But for a car that's purely a toy you might want to consider a manual.

For other marques you could look at the TTRS for something great sounding and rapid, or spend a little more and get a Jaguar F-Type, that's the king of toy cars

Just to clarify...the ZF8HP box shifts at 200ms which is slower than the 35i getrag box, but not by much...it’s interesting to note the 28i manual is nearly 0.5 sec slower to 60 than the auto as a human can’t shift as fast as the ZF box...that’s why it’s now standard on m2 m3 m5

As part of that the ZF box has auto lockup in all forward gears so there is no torque converter slip once rolling..p.us it’s more reliable as no need to replace clutch packs etc...the getrag box was a product of a lack at that time of the 8hp box and it’s then max torque limits

Today all new M series as well as many astons / lambos etc use the 8hp

BMW switched to the ZF box for cost cutting. It is worse for performance than the DCT by a mile.

 

[Silverstar]

It all really depends on what you value in a car, since the car is purely a toy you want something that makes you smile and if that's speed and a great sounding engine the 3 litre twin turbo is the only choice. If engine and exhaust note is not something you're bothered about and you just want a convertible to waft around in then the 20i would do the job and be cheaper to keep on the road.

The 30i sounds great but give it a couple of weeks and you'll be back on the forums asking how to get more power out of it!

I wouldn't be put off the DCT in the 35i and 35is models, it shifts faster than the standard 8 speed auto and provides more dramatic gear changes without the normal torque converter slip you get in the 8 speed. But for a car that's purely a toy you might want to consider a manual.

For other marques you could look at the TTRS for something great sounding and rapid, or spend a little more and get a Jaguar F-Type, that's the king of toy cars

Just to clarify...the ZF8HP box shifts at 200ms which is slower than the 35i getrag box, but not by much...it’s interesting to note the 28i manual is nearly 0.5 sec slower to 60 than the auto as a human can’t shift as fast as the ZF box...that’s why it’s now standard on m2 m3 m5

As part of that the ZF box has auto lockup in all forward gears so there is no torque converter slip once rolling..p.us it’s more reliable as no need to replace clutch packs etc...the getrag box was a product of a lack at that time of the 8hp box and it’s then max torque limits

Today all new M series as well as many astons / lambos etc use the 8hp

BMW switched to the ZF box for cost cutting. It is worse for performance than the DCT by a mile.

I think it's more than just cost cutting, the DCT of today can't handle the torque and complex 4WD drive train of the latest M cars. They say this latest gen ZF8 in the latest M cars shift times are comparable to that of the old DCT. Get XHP Flashtool done on the ZF8 in the Z4 and I don't think there will much difference in the real world.

 

[Smartbear]

If it has to be an E89 I'd go for the 30i you still get that sweet inline 6 but without the complications of the N54 and they are rarer than most of the other engines. You could pick a very good low mileage example for around 11 to 13K. I am bit biased though since I have one :lol: Other then that as someone else has suggested I think the E86 M Coupe would be a good weekend toy!

It’s not going to be any newer than the op’s 35is though, they stopped the 30i in 2011 didn’t they? :?
Rob

True last registered examples are in 2012, makes them a fairly rare beast in comparison to the other models particularly since during this period most purchased the 23i. Is the OP's prime objective to have something newer?

The 30i sounds great but give it a couple of weeks and you'll be back on the forums asking how to get more power out of it!

The 30i is plenty fast enough, I never felt that I need to make it faster and it isn't that far off from a non tuned 35i or 28i. But of course if speed is your outright objective it has to be the 35i or 35is but then you've got to be prepared for the mechanical headaches that come with those cars as the OP has already experienced.

Newer was one of the considerations, also very easy to add punch to the 20i in comparison to a 30i
Rob

 

[r4row]

absolutely love my 28i. Agreed that the auto 8 speed is so smooth and rapid. Not used as a daily drive but had two years of amassing drives including touring France. No particular issues and cant wait for the summer.

 

[Stevo1987]

The newer the car the better for me so no to a 30i.

 

[R.E92]

I think it's more than just cost cutting, the DCT of today can't handle the torque and complex 4WD drive train of the latest M cars. They say this latest gen ZF8 in the latest M cars shift times are comparable to that of the old DCT. Get XHP Flashtool done on the ZF8 in the Z4 and I don't think there will much difference in the real world.

Not sure I follow the logic behind the claim that dual clutch transmissions can't hold power and handle 4x4 applications. The Bugatti Chiron uses a 7 speed DCT and has 4WD, so does the Lamborghini Huracan, Nissan GTR, Porsche GT2.

The ZF8 is a cost saving exercise. It's as good as a traditional torque converter auto can get but there's a reason the DCT is used in high end vehicles and that's primarily speed and the feel of a proper gear change rather than a drawn-out slipping sensation you get from a torque converter.

Even thought I went for a DCT I think I'd still go back to manual, certainly on a weekend toy.

 

[mr wilks]

Even thought I went for a DCT I think I'd still go back to manual, certainly on a weekend toy.

THE END



No way would i even consider another Bmw with DCT unless i was commuting daily in town / city traffic .
As a weekend treat / sunny day driver with the 35is i found it turned a already numb handling car into a dull driving experience & recently buying a F11 with the 8 speed auto it only cemented my thoughts on the DCT its far from infallible to the point of annoying & only really shines if you want to excel at traffic light take offs or play at F1 changing with the paddles which i can't imagine many users actually do for any period of time .

 

[Anonymous]

I think it’s time to end this thread...clearly you are in love with your car and that’s great...

I’m not trying to convince you that your decision was a bad one or sub optimal in anyway..

What I was trying to point out to a newbie to this type that other people’s bias/preferences should be at least taken into account...

Having driven the 35i on a few occasions I can’t understand your view on the ZF 8HP, I’ve never ever had ‘ an slipping sensation’ , have you driven one?

When I was referring to the getrag ref E89, it was, that at that time, there was no ZF box capable of the 35i torque ...had the 8HP been around and other factors were aligned they would have used it...as I say all the M series use the 8HP as well as the F type..

Ref the shift times, once a shift time , like any thing, drops below a perceived limit then it becomes an irrelevant issue.

Clearly we are at different points in our lives with regard to these issues...

I had a long history of buying the then biggest fastest motorbikes and it was inconceivable to me to have anything less...later on I got the greatest pleasure pottering around on trailly type bikes where there was no need to get past 120mph to feel you were going places..

I live in the middle of nowhere with great empty roads and I never have felt once post re-map that I’m struggling/needing more acceleration..the corners come up way to quick every few seconds ..

So where the OP lives I can’t see how a few ms is going to be a limiting factor to his driving..

Out of interest in the 3 years now of being a member of the forum with about 60 days of leading/following Z4s I never have had any of the 35s make even rapid progress compared to some of the hooligans in E85s...

As they said at race school, car 35%, driver 50%, luck 15%..

Anyway by now I think we know which camp people sit in..so enjoy your car , it’s a Z like all the others..

 

[Silverstar]

I think it's more than just cost cutting, the DCT of today can't handle the torque and complex 4WD drive train of the latest M cars. They say this latest gen ZF8 in the latest M cars shift times are comparable to that of the old DCT. Get XHP Flashtool done on the ZF8 in the Z4 and I don't think there will much difference in the real world.

Not sure I follow the logic behind the claim that dual clutch transmissions can't hold power and handle 4x4 applications. The Bugatti Chiron uses a 7 speed DCT and has 4WD, so does the Lamborghini Huracan, Nissan GTR, Porsche GT2.

The ZF8 is a cost saving exercise. It's as good as a traditional torque converter auto can get but there's a reason the DCT is used in high end vehicles and that's primarily speed and the feel of a proper gear change rather than a drawn-out slipping sensation you get from a torque converter.

Even thought I went for a DCT I think I'd still go back to manual, certainly on a weekend toy.

I just reread the article again and it states the current DCT couldn't handle the torque from the latest M car and it would cost too much to develop a new DCT that could. So yeah I guess cost element does come into it. I guess BMW didn't want the car to be priced way above the competition e.g. AMG Mercedes and hence opted for the ZF?

 

[enuff_zed]

Steve, to come back to your initial question.
You've seen mine; 20i with 18" wheels and the all important non-black roof :wink:
No, i'm not selling it.......but for me it is ideal. A weekend car that vary rarely has the roof up, comfortable (more so now with the RFTs gone), economical (36-38mpg witha mix of fun and cruising), potentially cheaper to service than a 35i, depending on mileage I guess.
In the next couple of months I intend to hand over £295 to Celtic and get it up to 280bhp. I suspect this will be more than enough for me.
You are welcome to pop down and have a better look any time you like.
Bear in mind I wanted simplicity and have no real need or desire for gadgets, so mine has no Nav and no PDC.
Does have heated seats and steering wheel though.

The car is perfect for me. And I guess that's the point; we all have different expectations.

 

[golfgeezer]

I’ve got the ZF8 box in my 220. It’s my ‘daily’ and therefore ideal for the miles and traffic I do Monday - Friday. I looked for an auto as it’s a great effortless drive with the option of a bit of poke when needed.

When I was looking for a Z4 however I deliberately wanted a manual. As a weekend/sunny days car I wanted more engagement with the gearbox and felt it would suit the car better. I know many will disagree but hey we’re all different. Only the OP can decide what he wants to do.

 

[R.E92]

I think it’s time to end this thread...clearly you are in love with your car and that’s great...

I've lost count of the number of times I've read you gush out some nonsense about 20i being nearly as fast as a non mapped 35i and the auto transmission shifts faster than a manual. Then there's the drivel about a 35is not being able to corner because of the increased weight of the engine.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make here is that if power and shift speed are you two major criteria then unarguably the mapped 35i/35is produces the most power and the DCT shifts the fastest. It's the best performing E89 model available. I'm not going to contest it has the best fuel mileage.
This kind of inane argument about the lesser models being better than the halo models is repeated all over. I've lost track of the number of threads I've seen where a 335d owner tries to put forward the proposition that he has the "thinking mans" M3 or a Golf GTi driver trying to prove that somehow is better than a Golf R.

When I was referring to the getrag ref E89, it was, that at that time, there was no ZF box capable of the 35i torque ...had the 8HP been around and other factors were aligned they would have used it...as I say all the M series use the 8HP as well as the F type..

Again, another fabrication, I don't know how you make this stuff up. The 35i engine is available in the 335i with exactly the same torque output which comes with a ZF 6 speed and has been mated together since 2006, way before 35i production started!

 

[Broads]

OP.

A 2.0 remapped to 280bhp works great for me.
It's a superb car. The only thing however I long for is the sound of the straight six. So if sound is a big thing for you take this into serious consideration.

 

[Anonymous]

R.E92..you need to take a chill pill, once you get into "gush out some nonsense" "drivel" "inane" "another fabrication, I don't know how you make this stuff up" you need to calm down..

Ranting away doesn't really help any discussion..I'll just not bother commenting on a thread where you have spoken..bye

 

[sunnydays]

I think it’s time to end this thread...clearly you are in love with your car and that’s great...

I’m not trying to convince you that your decision was a bad one or sub optimal in anyway..

What I was trying to point out to a newbie to this type that other people’s bias/preferences should be at least taken into account...

Having driven the 35i on a few occasions I can’t understand your view on the ZF 8HP, I’ve never ever had ‘ an slipping sensation’ , have you driven one?

When I was referring to the getrag ref E89, it was, that at that time, there was no ZF box capable of the 35i torque ...had the 8HP been around and other factors were aligned they would have used it...as I say all the M series use the 8HP as well as the F type..

Ref the shift times, once a shift time , like any thing, drops below a perceived limit then it becomes an irrelevant issue.

Clearly we are at different points in our lives with regard to these issues...

I had a long history of buying the then biggest fastest motorbikes and it was inconceivable to me to have anything less...later on I got the greatest pleasure pottering around on trailly type bikes where there was no need to get past 120mph to feel you were going places..

I live in the middle of nowhere with great empty roads and I never have felt once post re-map that I’m struggling/needing more acceleration..the corners come up way to quick every few seconds ..

So where the OP lives I can’t see how a few ms is going to be a limiting factor to his driving..

Out of interest in the 3 years now of being a member of the forum with about 60 days of leading/following Z4s I never have had any of the 35s make even rapid progress compared to some of the hooligans in E85s...

As they said at race school, car 35%, driver 50%, luck 15%..

Anyway by now I think we know which camp people sit in..so enjoy your car , it’s a Z like all the others..

lol this coming from the person who stated the ZF8HP box is not much slower than the getrag DCT :roll:. If that is not bias I don't know what is.

"Just to clarify...the ZF8HP box shifts at 200ms which is slower than the 35i getrag box, but not by much"

What R.E92 stated is true: The gear shifts in the DCT are brutal, very different from the torque converter ZF8 which you claim is "not much slower than the DCT"

I wouldn't be put off the DCT in the 35i and 35is models, it shifts faster than the standard 8 speed auto and provides more dramatic gear changes without the normal torque converter slip you get in the 8 speed. But for a car that's purely a toy you might want to consider a manual.

You need to get over your insecurites about your ZF gearbox.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi sunnydays, I'm sorry I've antagonised the genus "35i"..

I never realised I had insecurities about my ZF gearbox..

I'll add you to the 'don't upset the 35i guys' list.. bye..

 

[sunnydays]

Hi sunnydays, I'm sorry I've antagonised the genus "35i"..

I never realised I had insecurities about my ZF gearbox..

I'll add you to the 'don't upset the 35i guys' list.. bye..

How mature.

 

[cerbera]

Another entertaining thread, thanks guys