service reveals some issues - FIXED :-) no further issue.

What do you mean 'not at all'?
Have you even read Redish reaction?

I quote:
causing a clearance gap between the upper spring plate at the valve collets which are only held in place by pressure of the upper valve spring plate. If one of these 2 collet halves move or worse fall out, it immediately turns ugly.

So the only professional approach to this fairly uniquely documented problem, is to remove the Vanos unit (which is harder on the E85/E86 chassis due to the front panel location compared to the E46 chassis, and remove the chain tensioner, upper chain guard, remove inlet helical gear, remove inlet vanos gearbox hub, remove inlet sprocket, then remove the inlet camshaft.

That will allow obviously clearance to slide the Inlet 5 Left rocker finger, remove the shim in question, and start measurements
Click to expand...

This is what they thought should be done to get that shim out and measure up to fix this.
How literally do you want it on your screen?

If you want to the bottom of every potential cause, you'd have to lift the head and inspect the valve seats. That's what they didn't advise.
Maybe that's what you're confused with.

Z4M-2006 said:
Can I ask.... How many S54's have you actually taken apart?
Click to expand...
you think the s54 is the only engine with shims and collets?
 
Yet,

Simpsons Motorsport say you don't need to go through all that rigmarole..

Who's right?

Only you can decide...


The not at all comment was written before you edited your answer...


Can I ask again...

How many S54's have you taken apart?
 
Yes well if you can get away with cold shrink the valve stems there is zero risk, zero need for special tools etc.
The compression test is a 10sec. pretest to determine the chance of succes. If the cylinder holds compression there is only little shrinkage needed and you can order your dry ice for 25quid.
And a cheap compression tester is something everyone should have lying around who has engine tinkering levels that reach up to lifting the valve cover. It's a cheap tool, nothing exotic. Especially for a gasoline engine

Cold or hot shrink is a very common technique in engine building in general. To get bearings in/out, valveseats in/out etc etc.

If it doesnt work you can always go in ways that either hold more risk or more work.

I have never taken an s54 apart.
 
I was wondering if you was talking with any kind of experience of the engine...

You keep mentioning compression testing the cylinder with a compression tester..
Do you mean a cylinder leakage test to determine whether the cylinder will hold compression ?
A cylinder leakage tester is required to do that..
 
No I have general engine & engineering experience. sometimes car engines and their valvetrains, sometimes a bit bigger. You get to learn/see/design different techniques other than what workshopmanuals give....

I know the difference between a compression test and a leakdown test but I think the compression test will suffice in this situation.
The valve either shuts or not, and that will show in the compression ratio I expect. Certainly if you compare it with the next cylinder. The shrinkeage of the valve stems with dry ice will be more than 1/10 of a mm I suspect and that would be a very large gap in terms of valve operation.
A leakdowntester is more expensive and requires compressed air. I dont know if beedub has a compressor other than the one on his car :lol:
 
maybe, but in my language we have a saying "measuring is knowing" (does that translate correctly in english? Is that an english saying too?)

Anyway this is probably how I would start to tackle this problem.
But it's Beedub's engine so he should do what he thinks is best.
Maybe first spray some super lubricant between the follower and the cam and see if you can't dislodge the follwer by hand anyway as a second try.
On a cold moring, when shrinkeage is max on the valvestem :P
Over here I think we already had our first nightfrost. :thumbsup:
 
GuidoK said:
Z4M-2006 said:
How many "people" do you know that have had tight valve clearances in S54's then and had to do this?

I mean, Seriously ... :rofl:
Click to expand...
I dont know but Redish couldnt solve this on the spot without consulting beedub.
If it was that easy they would have solved it in the jiffy you believe it is.

Their first thought to solve this was taking the cam out.
But if you do that by the book you need a £900 camshaft press. I bet beedub doesnt have that lying around in his garage.
Jared Wiesner over at e46fanatics wrote a great tutorial to get cams out without that press but that is specific for the m54. Does that work for the s54 with its huge camlobes?
Click to expand...


redish didn't consult me until the end!! they buttoned the car back up and told me what was going on to the that time i watched the video of the shim as i drove up to collect the car, this could have been ALOT of easier had they called me at that point and gave some options, even though i was on my way to the car i could have easily just got a hotel for the evening. In no way am i blaming or shooting down redish they have been nothing but excellent, but in hindsight i have no idea why i wasn't contacted at that point and given some options? simple... do you want to us to depress the spring? do you want us to remove the cam, shall we just put it back together and decide??

i was worried and taken aback by the hole shim event so wasn't thinking rationally at that point, but if i was redish or any garage and came across that id have stopped , called the customer and run some options, this was just costs more money.
 
Z4M-2006 said:
It's not misfiring either..

That might give an indication that the valve is closing correctly..
Click to expand...

that valve is NOT stuck open, feuling is perfect and the car runs as good as it EVER has.... if that valve was stuck open on this car i would spot it a mile off in the way the car runs, this was why i was so surprised about the shim, the car runs perfectly, not even a tick!
 
Smartbear said:
Even if the caps are loosened evenly so the load is even?
Rob
Click to expand...
Thats what i would have thought.
I have removed the cams on my old bike, 20 valve 4 cylinder engine to replace shims, the only way to do it.
It wasnt the cam you had to be careful with snapping but the cam caps and slowly and methodically loosening each bolt evenly across the head is the way to remove them. Same goes for reinstalling them, small adjustments at a time to avoid stress on the cam caps.
I have no idea of the layout of this engine though.
Reading what has been before is the follower supposed to slide on the cam to give access to the shim?
Depressing the valve spring even 3 or 4 mm is surely less than the cam lobe depresses it so surely 1mm would be fine?
 
Nictrix said:
Reading what has been before is the follower supposed to slide on the cam to give access to the shim?
Click to expand...

Yes it looks like access is made once the follower is slid sideways, much easier than removing the cams as per your bike set-ups
http://www.billswebspace.com/MS54B32TrainingModule.pdf
 
Beedub said:
Z4M-2006 said:
It's not misfiring either..

That might give an indication that the valve is closing correctly..
Click to expand...

that valve is NOT stuck open, feuling is perfect and the car runs as good as it EVER has.... if that valve was stuck open on this car i would spot it a mile off in the way the car runs, this was why i was so surprised about the shim, the car runs perfectly, not even a tick!
Click to expand...

Well if your car runs perfectly I wouldn't do anything about it.
Apparently the whole valve clearance adjustment and valvestems contracting and expanding with temperature do not apply for that particular valve.

I'd say let it be and just drive on!
 
The engine is running well but has at best a minimal valve clearance which is not within tolerance, it definitely needs attention to bring this back into spec-that's what I would do anyhow :thumbsup:
Rob
 
If it was mine and I had the back up plan that you have I would be tempted to just press the follower out of the way and take it from there.
If it moves with a little effort then a slightly smaller shim would probably just slip in.
Its an extremely cheap and easy fix if it goes well and if it doesnt you go with your other plan.
Yes people have said that it should be done differently or properly but you do have a back up plan so almost nothing to lose by doing this.
 
Mister T said:
This might be a really stupid suggestion, what if you removed the tensioner and just undid the cam caps slightly?
Click to expand...

There's also a vanos unit connected to the front of the cams.
So it depends on how much play is in that. It's a risk because the cams are pushed up by quite a force (multiple valvesprings), so by undoing the bearing caps strain is put on the vanos (and on the cam itself and every component in between), but you cant feel or see how much.
But maybe it works without damage :)

Sliding the cam follower by little force to the side also is a risk. You don;t want scratches on running surfaces (the cam or the follower), especially perpendicular on the running direction (and the sliding direction is perpendicular).
 
I had shim issues on my old Lotus Esprit that resulted in a cam follower (Bucket tappet) exploding and wrecking the top end of the engine. During my self rebuild I learnt a fair bit about the mechanics not least that shims are manufactured in their millions and some miss the hardening process so remain soft and will wear quickly. Also shims on my Esprit were stamped with their size but were invariably out ie smaller or larger than marked. When measuring up for the shim size it is not acceptable to just reach for the shim in that size and rebuild engine as you are likely to be out before car is started. Not sure if this could explain why you are at the current situation but when rebuilding I found it took many hours to get spot on the manufactures tolerence with the shims and I doubt any garage would spend much time on this.
Anyway sorry I strayed into this discussion, I just have the E85.
 
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