service reveals some issues - FIXED :-) no further issue.
- Thread starter Beedub
- Start date
Instead of buying a complete shim kit when you probably only need one, can you not just buy 1 shim in the smallest size, put it in to find the clearance and then buy the correct size shim.
Or if you know the shim sizes that are already in place throughout the head, (did the guys doing the other shims take note of the sizes), take out the smallest one and use it to get a starting gap.
Or if you know the shim sizes that are already in place throughout the head, (did the guys doing the other shims take note of the sizes), take out the smallest one and use it to get a starting gap.
As said .
Buy the thinnest shim available...
Remove tight shim... Refit thin shim and take reading...
Work out what shim is needed... Head for the nearest to centre of setting...
Removal of shim will be easy enough without removing cam if you are careful depressing the valve spring cap..
Buy the thinnest shim available...
Remove tight shim... Refit thin shim and take reading...
Work out what shim is needed... Head for the nearest to centre of setting...
Removal of shim will be easy enough without removing cam if you are careful depressing the valve spring cap..
Beedub said:Thought id update you guys....
I've decided to tackle this myself in the comfort of home.... no-one can take the love and care needed like myself, so..... I'm going to remove that shim myself, re-shim and then ill do it a complete shim check end of season next year! slightly nervous but I'm more than capable of doing this, just need to apply myself, however I'm well aware this is probably going to take me 3 times longer than it would the Pro's.
I've got some stuff to buy, bmw specific tools Etc, and ill picture the hole process, I'm actually alittle excited , as from doing this ill be much more in the know on the shim side of things. Time to get busy!
Holiday then ill be jumping straight into this early november.
Good on you I honestly think you are doing the right thing
The point I was trying to make earlier about having done rebuilds and valve shimming on other motors wasn't bigging-up, but emphasising that it's not witchcraft and that having seen the vids on the S54 procedure it's a damned site more straightforward that some which is down to quality engineering from BMW. With careful measurement and a methodical approach the main potential for ballsing-up is dropping a shim where it has no place to be. I thought Parts 1 & 2 two of this guys vids of an E46M3 (Z4M) measure & shim were really good, I'm sure it'l go nicely
https://youtu.be/HhV4m-ngvd0
Z4M-2006 said:
You think?
Without a compression test there is no way to estimate how far it has to be depressed.
And depressing the spring cap is very very dangerous as it involves one huge risk :wink:
This is something I would only dare at TDC (not 100% sure). I don't know if that's possible with the cilinder 5 cam lobe positition.
I'm not saying that the cam has to be removed, as there might just be a more cleverer, more elegant way :roll:
But like I said, first do the compression test on that cylinder. buy a cheap £10,- chinese compression test meter.
something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petrol-Engine-Compression-Tester-Kit-Set-For-Automotives-and-Motorcycles-/391293361437
or this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTOMOTIVE-PETROL-ENGINE-COMPRESSION-TESTER-KIT-VALVE-TIMING-GAUGE-PRO-CYLINDER-/251899772265
From that data you can conclude what to try next.
Byron...
From time to time im in the Wythall area, so could maybe pop in and give you a hand and the top end gasket set if the stars align.
Unfortunately I'm never sure if and when for timing purposes but if I'm around when your gonna do it, I don't mind lending a hand..
From time to time im in the Wythall area, so could maybe pop in and give you a hand and the top end gasket set if the stars align.
Unfortunately I'm never sure if and when for timing purposes but if I'm around when your gonna do it, I don't mind lending a hand..
Thats a tool for a system with underhead cams.
If you want to go this route and use tools for that see my previous posts in where I linked to tools which do this with overhead cams.
Yes, you'll be in that obscure internet corner of fiat tools or motorcycle tools.... :lol: (although there is probably also a £££££ferrari version
)
But I dont think you 2 understand what the risks are.
If you depress that valvespring with a few mm(! far too much !) I'm sure that beedub will be in tears that evening.
The problem is, that the valvespring retaining plate also keeps the collets in place.
The collets are little caps that seize the valve stem on a tiny edge. If they loose tension they come loose.
That poses 2 potential problems: 1 or both halves of the collets can fall, potentially inside the engine. 2. the valve slides back in the engine.
In both scenario's the head has to come of. And to do that, the chain, and maybe cams have to come off. I don't know the in's and outs of cam&vanos removal, but that is almost always done in a certain position, hence my remark about doing that in TDC engine position (this is all hardcore but basic engine mechanics). Remember that turning the crank at this point will destroy the engine.
As for my more elegant, more subtle way: there is a chance that the valve only has to be depressed only a few tenths or even more likely a few hundreds of a mm...
A compression test would show that because if the engine has still good compression at room temp, it means the valve is close and the follower is only under tiny tension. Hence my multiple emphasis on doing that compression test.....
In that case you could fil the area with small 3mm (or so) dry ice pellets (you can order these delivered for little money). These small pellets can also go inbetween the spring and cool the valve stem so it shrinks by probably even a few tenths of a mm, and the follower comes probably free.
With zero risk.
The dry ice completely evaporates. (you can always spray some wd40 in the sparkplug hole if you fear condensation of some moisture from the air has taken place).
If you want to go this route and use tools for that see my previous posts in where I linked to tools which do this with overhead cams.
Yes, you'll be in that obscure internet corner of fiat tools or motorcycle tools.... :lol: (although there is probably also a £££££ferrari version
)But I dont think you 2 understand what the risks are.
If you depress that valvespring with a few mm(! far too much !) I'm sure that beedub will be in tears that evening.
The problem is, that the valvespring retaining plate also keeps the collets in place.
The collets are little caps that seize the valve stem on a tiny edge. If they loose tension they come loose.
That poses 2 potential problems: 1 or both halves of the collets can fall, potentially inside the engine. 2. the valve slides back in the engine.
In both scenario's the head has to come of. And to do that, the chain, and maybe cams have to come off. I don't know the in's and outs of cam&vanos removal, but that is almost always done in a certain position, hence my remark about doing that in TDC engine position (this is all hardcore but basic engine mechanics). Remember that turning the crank at this point will destroy the engine.
As for my more elegant, more subtle way: there is a chance that the valve only has to be depressed only a few tenths or even more likely a few hundreds of a mm...
A compression test would show that because if the engine has still good compression at room temp, it means the valve is close and the follower is only under tiny tension. Hence my multiple emphasis on doing that compression test.....
In that case you could fil the area with small 3mm (or so) dry ice pellets (you can order these delivered for little money). These small pellets can also go inbetween the spring and cool the valve stem so it shrinks by probably even a few tenths of a mm, and the follower comes probably free.
With zero risk.
The dry ice completely evaporates. (you can always spray some wd40 in the sparkplug hole if you fear condensation of some moisture from the air has taken place).
There is a multitude of ways to hold the valve in place if need be .. Various tools or even compressed air.. You can strip the valve springs off and change the valve stem oil seals if you wanted too...
The collets have no chance of moving or jumping out if the spring cap is only moved a minuscule amount... The way the collets are chamfered into the valve head cap negates this ..the valve spring would have to be at least half compressed for the scenario you suggest to come into play...
The collets have no chance of moving or jumping out if the spring cap is only moved a minuscule amount... The way the collets are chamfered into the valve head cap negates this ..the valve spring would have to be at least half compressed for the scenario you suggest to come into play...
Not without removing the cam...Z4M-2006 said:
Believe me, chances of getting that collet back on if it dislocates with the cam in place is very low.
You were talking about a couple of mm!
Z4M-2006 said:
The grooves in the collets are 0,5mm max. Probably less. So that's how much it takes to dislocate a collet.
Ive heard plenty of people say in these kinds of situations...oohhh.... shouldn't have done that....
A couple of mm is not a miniscule amount in this situation. I mean for all you know the person that is going to do this job wil look at this thread and think hmmm z4m-2006 said compress the spring by a couple of mm. And does it...
Giving advice comes with a responsibility.
So in my book if there is a zero risk way that might work and that's 1: easy 2: cheap...
How many "people" do you know that have had tight valve clearances in S54's then and had to do this?
I mean, Seriously ...
Anyway... Whatever...
Take the cams out, remove the vanos, poor dried Ice down the bores....... Drop the sump, check the rod bearings, do the headgasket... :lol:
I mean, Seriously ...
Anyway... Whatever...
Take the cams out, remove the vanos, poor dried Ice down the bores....... Drop the sump, check the rod bearings, do the headgasket... :lol:
I dont know but Redish couldnt solve this on the spot without consulting beedub.Z4M-2006 said:How many "people" do you know that have had tight valve clearances in S54's then and had to do this?
I mean, Seriously ...
If it was that easy they would have solved it in the jiffy you believe it is.
Their first thought to solve this was taking the cam out.
But if you do that by the book you need a £900 camshaft press. I bet beedub doesnt have that lying around in his garage.
Jared Wiesner over at e46fanatics wrote a great tutorial to get cams out without that press but that is specific for the m54. Does that work for the s54 with its huge camlobes?
Not at all...
Redish didn't and still don't know the answer to what's happened for the clearance to close up..
Beedub has subsequently decided to follow the path of reshimming, and that's his decision..
I can fully understand why James at Redish didn't go any further on the day...
Just think about it...
Can I ask.... How many S54's have you actually taken apart?
Redish didn't and still don't know the answer to what's happened for the clearance to close up..
Beedub has subsequently decided to follow the path of reshimming, and that's his decision..
I can fully understand why James at Redish didn't go any further on the day...
Just think about it...
Can I ask.... How many S54's have you actually taken apart?