Scrapage Scheme Madness

[Nictrix]

I'd still like one though for the phenomenal acceleration.

In silence?
Nah, no point whatsoever.
I'd feel like I'd just gone onto a fast spin. End the journey and look for the tumble dryer.

I was in a tesla model 3 for the first time last week.
The acceleration is like nothing else, I was quite shocked at how quick it went.
Ugly as sin though.

 

[True-Blue]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

It would be good to take a break just from the driving when you are covering that type of distance.

You can now drive from London to Glasgow on the majority of modern ev's with some needing a 15 minute top up on such a distance.

Older ones yeah have issues. But that shows how much the tecnis improving on a yearly basis.

I imagine a breakthrough in tech and even sunroofs made of solar panels and you will see that you will only need to charge the car once per month for the average driver.

So someone who lives in a flat will have to for an hour once per month park up somewhere and charge their car.

If only there was these places called shops people tend to go to regularly for an hour or so every few days.

Charging points will eventually be installed in every bay in every car park.

Portable charging is already a thing. Whoever mentioned trailing wires across a street or road. There is no need. You charge a battery. Roll it to your car. Then the battery charges your car battery.

You would have a communal battery pack or two for a block of flats.

Elon is planning for life on Mars so I'm pretty sure he will overcome these minor issues with ease.

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

 

[Smartbear]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

It would be good to take a break just from the driving when you are covering that type of distance.

You can now drive from London to Glasgow on the majority of modern ev's with some needing a 15 minute top up on such a distance.

Older ones yeah have issues. But that shows how much the tecnis improving on a yearly basis.

I imagine a breakthrough in tech and even sunroofs made of solar panels and you will see that you will only need to charge the car once per month for the average driver.

So someone who lives in a flat will have to for an hour once per month park up somewhere and charge their car.

If only there was these places called shops people tend to go to regularly for an hour or so every few days.

Charging points will eventually be installed in every bay in every car park.

Portable charging is already a thing. Whoever mentioned trailing wires across a street or road. There is no need. You charge a battery. Roll it to your car. Then the battery charges your car battery.

You would have a communal battery pack or two for a block of flats.

Elon is planning for life on Mars so I'm pretty sure he will overcome these minor issues with ease.

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

I used to watch “tomorrow’s world” as well when i was a youngster, the problem is that tomorrow never comes.
Rob

 

[True-Blue]

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

It would be good to take a break just from the driving when you are covering that type of distance.

You can now drive from London to Glasgow on the majority of modern ev's with some needing a 15 minute top up on such a distance.

Older ones yeah have issues. But that shows how much the tecnis improving on a yearly basis.

I imagine a breakthrough in tech and even sunroofs made of solar panels and you will see that you will only need to charge the car once per month for the average driver.

So someone who lives in a flat will have to for an hour once per month park up somewhere and charge their car.

If only there was these places called shops people tend to go to regularly for an hour or so every few days.

Charging points will eventually be installed in every bay in every car park.

Portable charging is already a thing. Whoever mentioned trailing wires across a street or road. There is no need. You charge a battery. Roll it to your car. Then the battery charges your car battery.

You would have a communal battery pack or two for a block of flats.

Elon is planning for life on Mars so I'm pretty sure he will overcome these minor issues with ease.

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

I used to watch “tomorrow’s world” as well when i was a youngster, the problem is that tomorrow never comes.
Rob

Absolutely Rob,

I vividly remember being in my first year at school in the early 70’s and we all thought we’d be driving flying cars by the year 2000 ldman:

 

[Zulu4]

I'd still like one though for the phenomenal acceleration.

In silence?
Nah, no point whatsoever.
I'd feel like I'd just gone onto a fast spin. End the journey and look for the tumble dryer.

Maybe you could fit a sound generator from a Z4 :wink:

 

[sars]

The battery stored, charged and carried electric car is a stop gap solution, it is absolute madness to carry a big rare metal battery around with you that after five years usage will have 15-20% less capacity. Hydrogen is by far and away the best energy storage solution we currently have.

 

[Scubaregs]

There is no free lunch, where EV's help the environment in operation they rape it in production and the scale of dealing with fecked batteries is yet to be seen.

 

[Zed Baron]

Global electronic waste generation reached a record high of 53.6 million metric tons in 2019. This was an increase of 21 percent in just five years and worked out at approximately 7.3 kilograms of e-waste per capita. How much of that ewaste is being buried in landfill sites in places like Africa. Biggest ewaste culprits are China followed by the USA.

 

[firebobby]

The battery stored, charged and carried electric car is a stop gap solution, it is absolute madness to carry a big rare metal battery around with you that after five years usage will have 15-20% less capacity. Hydrogen is by far and away the best energy storage solution we currently have.

Totally agree, seen plenty of ev's queuing at charge points in services.
I've been in a couple of Hydrogen cars, really impressed, quick fill time, same as proper fuel vehicles.
They are looking at ev vans at work, fine around town, but no good for guys who work in the sticks and who don't visit offices every day.

 

[Scubaregs]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

Is every drive you do 300-400 miles? :roll:

 

[Scubaregs]

I think you’re picking parts of people's responses that suit your argument;

^Exactly this.^

 

[Nanu]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

Its OK to say it only takes so many minutes to charge at a motorway service station for instance and you can go for a coffee. But what if the person whose car is on charge decides to make it a two hour lunch break/ Just because their car is charged doesn't mean they are coming to shift it for you.

As for oil shortages and zero incentive to drill for more, Rubbish. We have enough oil of out own to last all of our lifetimes and Sunak when imposing a windfall tax said the Oil companies can claim up to 90% back if thy invest in more production in the UK.

If anything is going to depose petrol cars it hydrogen. Their is a huge investment these parts taking place on Teesside in Hydrogen production running into billions backed by the Qatar sovereign wealth fund. That's the future not electric.

 

[Scubaregs]

[ref]Nanu[/ref], agreed.

 

[SonnyA85]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

Is every drive you do 300-400 miles? :roll:

No but that's usually when I need a break on a long drive. That's when it will also need charging so it's killing 2 birds with 1 stone

 

[SonnyA85]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

It would be good to take a break just from the driving when you are covering that type of distance.

You can now drive from London to Glasgow on the majority of modern ev's with some needing a 15 minute top up on such a distance.

Older ones yeah have issues. But that shows how much the tecnis improving on a yearly basis.

I imagine a breakthrough in tech and even sunroofs made of solar panels and you will see that you will only need to charge the car once per month for the average driver.

So someone who lives in a flat will have to for an hour once per month park up somewhere and charge their car.

If only there was these places called shops people tend to go to regularly for an hour or so every few days.

Charging points will eventually be installed in every bay in every car park.

Portable charging is already a thing. Whoever mentioned trailing wires across a street or road. There is no need. You charge a battery. Roll it to your car. Then the battery charges your car battery.

You would have a communal battery pack or two for a block of flats.

Elon is planning for life on Mars so I'm pretty sure he will overcome these minor issues with ease.

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

The tech is here today.

We do 6-8k miles in our main car.

That's say 580 miles per month.

That's 2 charges per month.

My other car does 2k a year. That's 1 charge every 3 months.

For high mileage hybrids will likely be the stop gap until tech catches up for them to only need to charge weekly and a charge will take 30 mins.

You can charge a phone now in 15 minutes to full. 120W charging on the new gen phones. 15 mins to full battery.

More powerful charging will come to cars as it currently is improving all the time.

 

[True-Blue]

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

It would be good to take a break just from the driving when you are covering that type of distance.

You can now drive from London to Glasgow on the majority of modern ev's with some needing a 15 minute top up on such a distance.

Older ones yeah have issues. But that shows how much the tecnis improving on a yearly basis.

I imagine a breakthrough in tech and even sunroofs made of solar panels and you will see that you will only need to charge the car once per month for the average driver.

So someone who lives in a flat will have to for an hour once per month park up somewhere and charge their car.

If only there was these places called shops people tend to go to regularly for an hour or so every few days.

Charging points will eventually be installed in every bay in every car park.

Portable charging is already a thing. Whoever mentioned trailing wires across a street or road. There is no need. You charge a battery. Roll it to your car. Then the battery charges your car battery.

You would have a communal battery pack or two for a block of flats.

Elon is planning for life on Mars so I'm pretty sure he will overcome these minor issues with ease.

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

The tech is here today.

We do 6-8k miles in our main car.

That's say 580 miles per month.

That's 2 charges per month.

My other car does 2k a year. That's 1 charge every 3 months.

For high mileage hybrids will likely be the stop gap until tech catches up for them to only need to charge weekly and a charge will take 30 mins.

You can charge a phone now in 15 minutes to full. 120W charging on the new gen phones. 15 mins to full battery.

More powerful charging will come to cars as it currently is improving all the time.

6-8k p.a. Is way below average mileage and why would anyone currently buy a brand new electric car as a second car to do 2k miles P.A.

Now making points that are very specific to you, and fit your argument - the general population don’t fit your model and maths here.

Also conveniently avoiding any arguments around the impact of mining, the timescale for having charging points in every parking space, the environmental impact of recycling dead batteries etc, etc…

In addition, I think range anxiety will be very real for many years… until you are able to charge up literally everywhere.

 

[SonnyA85]

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

The tech is here today.

We do 6-8k miles in our main car.

That's say 580 miles per month.

That's 2 charges per month.

My other car does 2k a year. That's 1 charge every 3 months.

For high mileage hybrids will likely be the stop gap until tech catches up for them to only need to charge weekly and a charge will take 30 mins.

You can charge a phone now in 15 minutes to full. 120W charging on the new gen phones. 15 mins to full battery.

More powerful charging will come to cars as it currently is improving all the time.

6-8k p.a. Is way below average mileage and why would anyone currently buy a brand new electric car as a second car to do 2k miles P.A.

Now making points that are very specific to you, and fit your argument - the general population don’t fit your model and maths here.

Also conveniently avoiding any arguments around the impact of mining, the timescale for having charging points in every parking space, the environmental impact of recycling dead batteries etc, etc…

In addition, I think range anxiety will be very real for many years… until you are able to charge up literally everywhere.

Range anxiety? Cars today can do 300-400 miles and I can charge at home.

I will only need to charge up once every 3-4 years whenever we decide to go to London other than that it will be charged at home for me.

There are issues. I'm not denying that. Those will all be ironed out over time.

Range is not an issue for majority of people. How many people do you know who do 300+ miles per day? Even Amazon has switched to electric delivery vans. My local organic fruit and veg shop delivers in a EV.

The more people that adopt the more chargers will also spring up.

Charging will be available because petrol forecourts will be a thing of the past. You will have to travel for 30 mins to find petrol in the future but an ev charger will be within 5 minutes if need be.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Scubaregs]

Range is THE big issue for the majority of people.

I bought a Corsa as a DD for work a few years ago when I had the 718. I do an 80 mile commute for work, I ran the figures for buying an EV Corsa vs the petrol version. By the time I'd recouped fuel costs on the difference in purchase price for the EV, the battery on the EV would have been at the end of its life. A tank of petrol was one fill up a week, including running around outwith the commute miles. 5 minutes tops at the petrol station.

As has been pointed out numerous times, you are making arguments to suit your situation, which is not indicative of the general population.

 

[Ole gits rule]

I have been looking at leasing SWMBO an EV, based other 8k miles per annum and the additional cost of the lease, it just does not pay with the cost of electric today.

I would love to do it but just not cost effective for me at the time

 

[mmm-five]

If I was only doing 2k a year, then I’d probably not own a car, and just use one of the car club schemes when I could get around on pubic transport. But of course some people live in areas or have personal/social needs where a car is a necessity.

I’d happily have an EV, and it would be used for my normal (i.e. pre-Covid) 30k a year mostly-motorway commute.

I’d ‘fill up’ much as I do now, so it’s full when I leave home in Liverpool, sits at the B&B in London all week, and gets driven back.

The only difference is that I’d have to ensure the B&B or the local street would allow me to charge up before my return trip, which is not significantly different to what I’d do had I driven the Z4M instead (like I used to for 150k miles)…but with the Z4M it only ever meant a quick trip to any petrol station to fill up.

My only issue with buying one right now is finding an equivalent to the my current 320d for the same price as I could get selling it (i.e. £14k).