S54 rod bearing

[exdos]

Are there any other manufacturers that suffer from similar engine failures in these warmer climates? One would expect BMW with their infinite wisdom would account for these type of events in the materials they use. If not then surely we would see/hear many more stories from across the pond of similar problems? Just playong devils advocate. Personally i think your all looking into it a bit much.

Yes, you would think that BMW would account for this but I experienced bearing shell failure of the S54 engine at 31k miles in my Z3MC, so it's clear that they make mistakes.

 

[simonlpearce]

^^^ that is somewhat shameful on BMW's part!

 

[exdos]

^^^ that is somewhat shameful on BMW's part!

Fair play to BMW though, they fitted a new engine FOC for me though, which has now done just 5.5k miles so it must be one of the lowest mileage Z3MCs

 

[ga41]

Are there any other manufacturers that suffer from similar engine failures in these warmer climates? One would expect BMW with their infinite wisdom would account for these type of events in the materials they use. If not then surely we would see/hear many more stories from across the pond of similar problems? Just playong devils advocate. Personally i think your all looking into it a bit much.

Don't forget that it's a small percentage of owners that bother joining online forums to complain about car troubles, and i'd also argue that there are even members that do suffer faults and get them fixed but don't post about it...

 

[AndyBeech]

Are there any other manufacturers that suffer from similar engine failures in these warmer climates? One would expect BMW with their infinite wisdom would account for these type of events in the materials they use. If not then surely we would see/hear many more stories from across the pond of similar problems? Just playong devils advocate. Personally i think your all looking into it a bit much.

Don't forget that it's a small percentage of owners that bother joining online forums to complain about car troubles, and i'd also argue that there are even members that do suffer faults and get them fixed but don't post about it...

I'm with Simon. Why is it such a surprise that a high mileage (130,000 miles) performance engine that the owner admitted has been *driven hard* (fair enough) most the time has worn its shells out? Why does that mean we are all now fcuked and should all look at replacing them at 80 odd k? There's no *evidence* to suggest this should be the case, just opinion.

And just as many people who do join forums don't have that issue and just as many people who never join forums may or may not have this issue. It's pointless speculating, there's no stats in that one way or another.

My source of knowledge is someone who deals with these engines on a regular basis day in day out as a business and I get the impression it's not a big an issue as made out if correct oil/oil level/interim changes are all correct.
If your worried get an oil sample next time you drop the engine oil.

 

[mr wilks]

Amen ! some sense at last ^^^^^^^^^^
, ive just breached 80k , car runs sweet & i'l be out tomorrow for a 75mile thrash with zero concern RE bearing shells , all you can do is buy the best you can with regards condition & history then maintain ( oil change every 5k ) & use sensibly
I certainly wouldn't entertain doing the job purely as a mileage based precautionary measure & seriously doubt any more than 1% of other M owners wiould either
There are members on here over 100k , using them daily & most likely never have any issues
The OPs car has covered 150k + miles but how many were before his ownership started ?

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Andy, mine sees more track miles than road and mine were fine at 50k....
GuidoK, I don't have pictures I'm afraid. I've the old shells somewhere but I would know where to start looking!
MrW, I only changed mine due to the hard life my car leads. I changed the head gasket and VANOS bolts at the same time. I wouldn't have done any of the above were it a weekend toy. Out of interest, have you taken yours over 5k revs yet?

 

[srhutch]

Could it be that as the engine will be warmer when not being used, the tolerances will be slightly tighter, so if most damage is done from a cold start, as its just that little bit tighter, they could be getting worn before the oil could get warmed up and do its thing.

You've said what I was trying to say, but you've phrased it better.

He did :lol:

Would be interesting to know if the OP does have a different grade of oil to compensate for the temperature.

 

[mr wilks]

MrW, I only changed mine due to the hard life my car leads. I changed the head gasket and VANOS bolts at the same time. I wouldn't have done any of the above were it a weekend toy. Out of interest, have you taken yours over 5k revs yet?

the rev range has been explored but not wanting to start a whole new debate rarely find the need to thrash it over 5k
I do think the crux of both bottom & top end engine problem's is heat related whether from low oil level , low oil pressure ,crap oil or over stressing it
Ive switched my car onto Millers CFS 10W 60 with this in mind & will continue doing so at 5k intervals

 

[Vanne]

......

 

[DPG]

Amen ! some sense at last ^^^^^^^^^^
, ive just breached 80k , car runs sweet & i'l be out tomorrow for a 75mile thrash with zero concern RE bearing shells , all you can do is buy the best you can with regards condition & history then maintain ( oil change every 5k ) & use sensibly
I certainly wouldn't entertain doing the job purely as a mileage based precautionary measure & seriously doubt any more than 1% of other M owners wiould either
There are members on here over 100k , using them daily & most likely never have any issues
The OPs car has covered 150k + miles but how many were before his ownership started ?

+1

 

[AndyBeech]

Hang on a sec Andy. I never said I "ragged" the car... I treat my stuff with the utmost respect and I take offence at you suggesting otherwise in regards to my car. That is not the case at all actually. .. :x

I apologise if that offends you, I don't see it as a disrespectful term nor does it mean you don't treat your car with respect, just another way of saying you drive it hard, which you basically say here:

I gotta admit, my car has not been babied, nor is it a hangar queen, it's used like it was designed. No quarter given, and none taken..

No need to get offended. I'll edit my post to use a more neutral term

 

[Vanne]

.....

 

[AndyBeech]

What I meant by that statement was that the car sees 6 or 7 tracks meets per year, oil is always changed after each meet, and driven respectfully on open public roads.. There is no Ragging nor trashing going on here period, or doing burn outs or any of that childish/adolescent and illegal crap that is associated with the term Ragging..

Ok ok! No need to get your knickers in a twist, I didn't suggest you did any of that kind of stuff, I don't associate 'ragging' with that stuff so no offence was meant by it! Anyway, I've edited it now, all good

 

[Vanne]

No worries, cheers. :wink:

 

[Z4M-2006]

I have done a few S54's.....

The Bearing shellls should be considered as a wear item.... As with all "S" derived engines..

The actual conrod shell area ratio to piston crown size is small ,a lot of thrust is put upon the bearings so i would think 100k is a good time to pull them and change them.

Regular oil changes,i would say every 6k,correct warm up procedure and not letting the oil get hot will elongate life of the bearing,but whats the point of owning if you cant give them a good pasting from time to time....?
You can,but be wary and have a degree of mechanical sympathy and im sure the bearing will do 100k+ without failing.. There are exceptions of course,but these are very few and far between...

 

[tomscott]

Its easy to say until it happens... there aren't really any signs unless you get an oil analysis. It can happen to a car that feels completely healthy. There are plenty of cases and they are just becoming more common now these cars are getting older.

If you disagree then thats fine its not something thats an immediate issue but it can be. It is a wearable item and should be considered with your service schedule if you are piling on the miles and drive the car hard. If you decide to ignore that then thats up to you.

 

[AndyBeech]

I'm not totally disagreeing with what your saying. There's so many variables to consider that I don't believe it's just a case of saying that all M cars should have the shells replaced at a particular mileage or they will fail.

My concern with these threads is that potential buyers or people that are interested in these car's can easily get put off unfairly by the way it comes across with people's opinions on the matter rather than actual facts. "Plenty of these cases becoming more and more common" for example....plenty in relation to what? The small demographic of this forum? I've seen very few threads. M3 Cutters, also few and far between. There's nothing wrong with passing on opinion and *knowledge* of course to build up a somewhat informed picture of these cars reliability but I think the perspective sometimes get lost. These engine's have been around for some time now and by performance car standards they are actually very reliable if looked after correctly. The SMG failures of E46 M3's, now there is a widespread and big issue, I don't often see shell bearing issues crop up anywhere near as much.
I take the cam followers threads for example, yes it can happen, like any problem, but because two happened in a short space of time it was suddenly a knee jerk reaction of 'we're all buggered and we're all going to experience this failure' which I don't think is true.

I agree it's something to consider though, as mileage passes 100k then yes it would be something I would be considering, but I'd start with an oil analysis first before jumping straight to an labour intensive task that may not need doing. Just my opinion though ...although it is based on the experience of someone who works on these engines day in day out since they were released back in 2001.

*What happened to the pics Vanne? Just seen it's disappeared

 

[DPG]

You mentioned in another post that your oil temp is running 10 degrees too warm.

Could that be linked if it's been like that for a while?

 

[GuidoK]

Are there any other manufacturers that suffer from similar engine failures in these warmer climates? One would expect BMW with their infinite wisdom would account for these type of events in the materials they use. If not then surely we would see/hear many more stories from across the pond of similar problems? Just playong devils advocate. Personally i think your all looking into it a bit much.

The US fora are full with worn bearingcaps on s54's
Honda engines also sometimes suffer, and probably ferrari's too, but those last are seldom seen with mileage above 30k.
Imho it's due to the high revs, long stroke and maybe the angle the pistonrod makes.
Imho it's not a matter of bearing tolerance. If you look at bearingcaps that just start to wear, the wearpattern is typical for cavitation corrosion.
But there are not much engines like these with pistonspeed that high (long stroke, high revs).
All bearingpics ive seen from s50 and s54 from 50k miles up have wear. It starts with the typical oval/round wearspots.

The s50, s54 but also s65 and s85 suffer from this problem.

Maybe this can be reduced with different oil thickness, but I couldn't say if you need thicker or thinner oil, and in what temp range. hydrodynamics is a difficult concept. Especially in a bearingcap that gets tossed around 8000 times per minute...