Roof fault-bong of doom

[flybobbie]

Well few weeks ago, roof fault came up. Code reader said roof module 2 hall sensor.
So today being -1.5 c temperature going home, roof bong continuous and red roof symbol and "roof not latched" all the way home.
So thinking this will be a broken wire, you can just feel the cable in the open section of the interior roof panel just alongside the head rest.
So i pushed on the cables and sure enough the red roof symbol comes and goes.
So looks like a broken wire, bit too cold at the moment to mess.

 

[Zedhead4]

Yes I had the same, haven't used the car for a few days, got in and noticed the roof button light flashing and cic says"roof opening impaired" tried reading code and it says "A690 Hall sensor VSW5.1 signal or value above threshold", too cold to go hunting for it now, so will try later this week, something to look forward too(not).

 

[Smartbear]

I think it’s possible to source wire more able to withstand the movement around the hinges :?
Rob

 

[Zedhead4]

Pity BMW didnt use it..

 

[flybobbie]

Well mines lasted 12 years with a lot of use, can't complain to much.
At least i know the possible cure.
I try not to operate the roof if it's cold when the wires and hyd. lines could be stiff.
It needs replacing with aviation headset cable, my headset lasted 25 years of daily use of constant wrapping and twisting before the wire broke at one end.

 

[flybobbie]

Well fixed today.
First i stripped out the roof liner, easy once the rear corners are pulled off first. But later i think i could have got away without touching the liner.
But nice to see the mechanism underneath.
So faced with two sets of braided wire i had to strip it back to expose the wires.
The lower smaller bundle was for the roof locking mechanism.
The larger the cylinder pipes and wires.
Straight away the broken wire and about to break wire was found.

Looks almost like the boot wires, a cropping machine fault.
Bit odd as these wires were twisted just near where they broke.

I spliced in four new wires about 100mm long.
The original wires had become stiff, the stiffness seemed to vary from place to place.
Not so sure if the black tape that was sticky had some effect.
But the two damaged wires seemed damage at the same place, one on each sensor pair.

 

[maxman]

Good detective work and cheap fix. Useful information for future reference.

 

[Smartbear]

Well fixed today.
First i stripped out the roof liner, easy once the rear corners are pulled off first. But later i think i could have got away without touching the liner.
But nice to see the mechanism underneath.
So faced with two sets of braided wire i had to strip it back to expose the wires.
The lower smaller bundle was for the roof locking mechanism.
The larger the cylinder pipes and wires.
Straight away the broken wire and about to break wire was found.
z.jpg
Looks almost like the boot wires, a cropping machine fault.
Bit odd as these wires were twisted just near where they broke.
y.jpg
I spliced in four new wires about 100mm long.
The original wires had become stiff, the stiffness seemed to vary from place to place.
Not so sure if the black tape that was sticky had some effect.
But the two damaged wires seemed damage at the same place, one on each sensor pair.

Did the damaged cores line up with the cable tie position/attachment clip on the mechanism? Also, what wire did you source for the patch?
Good fix, some people pay bmw a fortune for this issue
Rob

 

[flybobbie]

It was between clamping positions.
There is a plastic guide bracket that couldn't fit back on for now.
Thinking back the edge of that might line up with the break position.
Seems that both pairs had the same twist and break point
The only cable to hand was some 13 amp flex.
I used some inline connectors, not ideal solution, but works for now.
Will have another look tomorrow, i was losing the light and not quite finished refitting trim.

 

[flybobbie]

Previous posters pics.
I have added the blue line where the breaks where right arms.

 

[flybobbie]

At first i thought this was the problem, but the rubbing is on the lower cable.
The cable has rubbed on a screw creating a grey hard substance stuck to weave.

 

[Smartbear]

What a pain, wonder if the loom will still have running clearance if you bend that metal guide out a bit, easing the friction from that screw :?
Rob

 

[flybobbie]

I have yet to re cable tie that holder.

But did something stupid whilst distracted by friend chatting.
Whilst the roof was operable, i raised the boot and moved the roof protector to get at some tools.
I re-closed the boot.
Fiddled with wires, then i couldn't move the roof. Roof protector warning came up.
Couldn't get into boot!
Then remembered my boot mod.
I pulled on the cable i had installed and the boot opened, so i could replace the roof protector.
Saved my bacon.

 

[Smartbear]

I have yet to re cable tie that holder.

But did something stupid whilst distracted by friend chatting.
Whilst the roof was operable, i raised the boot and moved the roof protector to get at some tools.
I re-closed the boot.
Fiddled with wires, then i couldn't move the roof. Roof protector warning came up.
Couldn't get into boot!
Then remembered my boot mod.
I pulled on the cable i had installed and the boot opened, so i could replace the roof protector.
Saved my bacon.

Bowden cable saves the day
Rob

 

[flybobbie]

Been a great day today.
So continued to finish job off, two cycles and it all got stuck half in and out.
Yes my repaired bodged wires had pulled apart.
So can't move anything either way.

So propped boot lid up with two pieces of broom handle before it dropped on half closed roof.
So back to my cable pull, i unlocked the boot lid and lifted it up. (That mod a god send).
Empty boot of junk.
Got to the brass hex's on the pump and dumped the pressure. Forward one is roof and rear the boot. So roof drops into boot.
So after a short wait i grab the roof and push it all the way forward up and over.
I then remove the broom handles and drop the boot.
Left at work with a cover on.

Have now gathered together better wire, going to use some small stereo audio cable, heat shrink and access to mains power to do a proper solder job.
I think i'm going to replace the left wires as well.

 

[flybobbie]

So did a better repair today.
Back to original wiring.

Then used some flexible audio cable with enough to form a loop.

I finished the job off by wrapping some old sock around the wires. I wanted something that would give but hold the wires in place. Not wrap it all in black tape for instance.

See why it breaks, here's roof on it's way down and the bend the wires have to follow.
Marked the break point red arrow.

 

[Smartbear]

I thought those wires were a continuous length in that area, why would a wire cropping machine be used there? :?
Rob

 

[flybobbie]

Mass production the wires would be cropped each end.
The wires are different colours so different part numbers, not sure if both are Hall or one is Mechanical switch.
Need check wiring diag.
So two pairs would be almost same length for each end of cylinder.
So why change the machine setting.
The operative "could" have set a wrong crop on the machine.
Or reused wires from another job.
Be interested to know if there have been any failures of wires on the left side, as these would be totally different lengths.
I have yet to look at the left side, be interesting to see what i find.
Place a bet they are fine.

 

[Smartbear]

Where the wires have broken, is it just the copper conductors that have snapped or has the plastic insulation been broken/cut in the same place? I’ve read an opinion that bmw used an inferior grade of wire that just wasn’t up to the rigours of the job. Be pretty bad if all these problems are poor quality control!
Rob

 

[flybobbie]

My failed was the hall switch, which is what Foxwell reader said.
The other is microswitch.
I assume wire lengths might be different.
But why break at exact same point.
No sign of any rubbing on the other wire in each pair.
Just that the other wire was slightly longer with the twist in it.
Perhaps the twist made that wire slightly short and was being pulled when operated and just finally snapped.
But would need some pull for the insulation to go first.
I think the goo on the black tape might have made the wire insulation stiffer/brittle..