Roadster owners look away - esp. Goldbcfc!

[goldbcfc]

I know this thread is deliberately provocative and to attract banter, but if we're talking about "design classic status" let's elevate this thread into a discussion about design and aesthetics, rather than the tedious personal preferences of roadster or coupe.

Using the photo of the Z4Coupe that goldbcfc posted, you can see that the the Coupe has a top line which flows from the crease in the front wing right over the top to the rear of the car. The roadster doesn't have the roof to continue the smooth line and consequently it is missing a lot from an aesthetic perspective.

The blue line in the photo below shows how the creases in the front wing, door and rear wing, define the side of the car from the upper surface, which particularly accentuates the wide rear wheel arches.

The green line in the photo below shows how the outline of the door flows into the the demarcation of cill and front wing and also the bonnet and front bumper as one smooth continuous line.

the Z4 Coupe is a genuine work of art and worthy of inclusion in any museum of design as a masterpiece.

The blue and green lines are no different !!!! which only leaves the red roof line. My Z4R has a soft top roof which isn't just there for show unless your counting a hardtop put on them as only being aerodynamic. If you had drawn lines on the roadster with its roof up or a hard top on I'm sure there isn't really much difference in the two roof aerodynamic lines of Z4R and Z4C. The roof on Z4C makes the car more rigid which is the main benefit. I can see the possible future classic design aspect now with those designs of other cars. Apart from the huge rear I still cant see what the fuss is about its far from being a pretty bmw where as them other cars actually look really good. I bet if you did a poll of best looking bmw's Z4C would not get a feature apart from the a hand full of coupe owners who cherish them of course. I suppose its like new buildings or art some look awful on the eye but receive awards for design.

 

[exdos]

which only leaves the red roof line.

That's precisely the point! The roadster has a totally different one, which from an aesthetics point of view, has a significant impact. :roll:

 

[z4pilot]

It all just underlines that coupe drivers are somehow huffy and are apparently mostly involved with the looks of their car, maybe missing the experience of an open top. Or maybe out of frustration that a roadster has a feature a coupe simply has not. :wink:

Ignoring the trolling :wink: you might have a point. Roadster owners clearly believe that the top down experience is intrinsic to the enjoyment of the car - Coupe owners don't. I've owned a couple of soft tops, one a Z4, so I've been there, done that and don't feel the need to go back. Aesthetically the Roadster is compromised - no convertible looks good with the roof up and depending who's sat in it, they might not look an awful lot better with the top down...

Apart from the huge rear I still cant see what the fuss is about its far from being a pretty bmw where as them other cars actually look really good. I bet if you did a poll of best looking bmw's Z4C would not get a feature apart from the a hand full of coupe owners who cherish them of course. I suppose its like new buildings or art some look awful on the eye but receive awards for design.

Interested to see which BMW's you would nominate as being best looking?

 

[GuidoK]

Ignoring the trolling :wink: you might have a point. Roadster owners clearly believe that the top down experience is intrinsic to the enjoyment of the car - Coupe owners don't. I've owned a couple of soft tops, one a Z4, so I've been there, done that and don't feel the need to go back. Aesthetically the Roadster is compromised - no convertible looks good with the roof up

Obviously there is some trolling :evil:
But my point is that if someone tells a story about his coupe, it basically comes down how good he thinks it looks.
When someone tells a story about his roadster, it usually is a story about how nice the drive was with the roof down, the sun outside and what a nice time he/she had.
I dont know if the roadster is aesthetically compromised. The fabric roof is an essential part of the function it has to perform. Just as a normal car has to have doors to get in or wheels to get the thing moving. Saying that the soft top doesnt look good is something like saying you dont like the round shapes of the wheels on the car....
And as opinion on looks are just an opinion people seem to get huffy when you dispute that matter of taste. Maybe because thats the only unique selling point in their eyes. With a roadster it's different. You can try to dispute if the top can go down or not but its pretty factual, unless the pump is broken...

and depending who's sat in it, they might not look an awful lot better with the top down...

You might have a point there.... If I was butt-ugly I'd buy a coupe too :lol:

 

[goldbcfc]

no convertible looks good with the roof up,

I think the E64 and E93 both look better with top up rather than down just my opinion. Also with the exception to Z4C most convertibles are normally cost thousands more and look far more luxurious than there coupe equivalents no matter what car manufacturer. Even chris evans said on topgear other week he ordered that latest new Ferrari sypder when he already had the coupe the spyder costing a lot more and being more rare. How can you not like a convertible seriously?. Its like going on holiday but using the indoor pool and not the outside one on a sunny day. I'm confused......lol

 

[z4pilot]

Ignoring the trolling :wink: you might have a point. Roadster owners clearly believe that the top down experience is intrinsic to the enjoyment of the car - Coupe owners don't. I've owned a couple of soft tops, one a Z4, so I've been there, done that and don't feel the need to go back. Aesthetically the Roadster is compromised - no convertible looks good with the roof up

Obviously there is some trolling :evil:
But my point is that if someone tells a story about his coupe, it basically comes down how good he thinks it looks.
When someone tells a story about his roadster, it usually is a story about how nice the drive was with the roof down, the sun outside and what a nice time he/she had.
I dont know if the roadster is aesthetically compromised. The fabric roof is an essential part of the function it has to perform. Just as a normal car has to have doors to get in or wheels to get the thing moving. Saying that the soft top doesnt look good is something like saying you dont like the round shapes of the wheels on the car....
And as opinion on looks are just an opinion people seem to get huffy when you dispute that matter of taste. Maybe because thats the only unique selling point in their eyes. With a roadster it's different. You can try to dispute if the top can go down or not but its pretty factual, unless the pump is broken...

and depending who's sat in it, they might not look an awful lot better with the top down...

You might have a point there.... If I was butt-ugly I'd buy a coupe too :lol:

Damn! I've been rumbled....



I think we can agree that they are equally good to drive, equally competent and equally capable - it just comes down to the type of experience you want whilst getting from A to B.

Aesthetics and function are two different things. Functional things don't need to look good, but as you say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if I return to my original post, at least one respected motoring magazine thinks the Coupe is aesthetically a high point for BMW design.

 

[Zeld4]

You have missed a lot my friend, that topic which you highlighted which was mine was a total and utter joke.

Yes I know but but goldies thread was also started out of light heartedness. Or at least that's what he says in his topic. Still it exploded.

Yeah well you make your own decision up if everything he says is light hearted. You can't or shouldn't start a thread that is poking fun at people if you can't take it back and he can't. He has a massive chip on his shoulder because he's only just realised BMW's are the best engineered cars in the world and he still hangs on to the belief that a French s**t box is the most incredible car ever made. These delusions that he has about French cars being the best engineered in the world is causing him to have cognitive conflicts. It's great that he has some supporters here as these kind of people usually end up going on the rampage with toaster stuck up their arses. Either that or they buy a car and lower it to the point of where the handling and ride are ruined and put silly after market wheels on it. Hopefully he only has a two slice toaster as four slice toasters have been known to cause lasting injuries.

 

[buzyg]

You have missed a lot my friend, that topic which you highlighted which was mine was a total and utter joke.

Yes I know but but goldies thread was also started out of light heartedness. Or at least that's what he says in his topic. Still it exploded.

Yeah well you make your own decision up if everything he says is light hearted. You can't or shouldn't start a thread that is poking fun at people if you can't take it back and he can't. He has a massive chip on his shoulder because he's only just realised BMW's are the best engineered cars in the world and he still hangs on to the belief that a French s**t box is the most incredible car ever made. These delusions that he has about French cars being the best engineered in the world is causing him to have cognitive conflicts. It's great that he has some supporters here as these kind of people usually end up going on the rampage with toaster stuck up their arses. Either that or they buy a car and lower it to the point of where the handling and ride are ruined and put silly after market wheels on it. Hopefully he only has a two slice toaster as four slice toasters have been known to cause lasting injuries.

:lol: :lol: I don't suppose you would like to buy my wife's Clio 1.2, she's is looking to get an MX5. It has 16 valves apparently. Other than that though I would have to agree whole heart-idly, that it is an unreliable piece of french s##t

 

[mr wilks]

:wink: - no convertible looks good with the roof up

Now i'l have to call bollox at this point mr p you were doing such a good job of keeping the whole C v R topic simmering nicely then you blow it with that statement





not to mention E89s which may not handle like the previous Zs but look equally good roof up or roof down

 

[buzyg]

Is that E89 pic in Madeira?

Lovely pic anyway. Just needs the roof down. :wink:

 

[mr wilks]

Is that E89 pic in Madeira?

Lovely pic anyway. Just needs the roof down. :wink:

Not sure on the pic location , just like it & shows off the stunning "coupeness" of the 89 don't you think ?

 

[buzyg]

Is that E89 pic in Madeira?

Lovely pic anyway. Just needs the roof down. :wink:

Not sure on the pic location , just like it & shows off the stunning "coupeness" of the 89 don't you think ?

It does indeed Mr Wilks. 8)

 

[z4pilot]

:wink: - no convertible looks good with the roof up

Now i'l have to call bollox at this point mr p you were doing such a good job of keeping the whole C v R topic simmering nicely then you blow it with that statement





not to mention E89s which may not handle like the previous Zs but look equally good roof up or roof down

Clearly I need to refine my statement... Cloth roofed convertibles never look great with the roof up... Witness the number of owners on here who prefer the look of their E85's with the hardtop on when compared to having the cloth hood up. Two seat metal top convertibles can work - although the designers have to work hard to avoid a high and heavy rear end to accommodate the folded roof. The E89 arguably manages it better than the california although it still looks better balanced with the roof up and needs the bigger wheels to avoid looking under wheeled.

 

[Zeld4]

Is that E89 pic in Madeira?

Lovely pic anyway. Just needs the roof down. :wink:

Not sure on the pic location , just like it & shows off the stunning "coupeness" of the 89 don't you think ?

You are right the E89 does look good from that angle, it's just a shame that as my girlfriend says, it looks like a Vectra from behind

 

[mr wilks]

Is that E89 pic in Madeira?

Lovely pic anyway. Just needs the roof down. :wink:

Not sure on the pic location , just like it & shows off the stunning "coupeness" of the 89 don't you think ?

You are right the E89 does look good from that angle, it's just a shame that as my girlfriend says, it looks like a Vectra from behind

Haha , that's one of the reasons my wife only drives our cars & never gets to choose them
Yea looks just the same

 

[Zeld4]

Not sure on the pic location , just like it & shows off the stunning "coupeness" of the 89 don't you think ?

You are right the E89 does look good from that angle, it's just a shame that as my girlfriend says, it looks like a Vectra from behind

Haha , that's one of the reasons my wife only drives our cars & never gets to choose them
Yea looks just the same

Sorry my bad, I meant the Vauhall Insignia


Surely those light clusters are interchangeable

 

[goldbcfc]

Clearly I need to refine my statement... Cloth roofed convertibles never look great with the roof up... .

still have to disagree e64 is one hell of a good looking car roof up and with roof down it looks worse same case with the e93 only the E46 could ever really pull off both look with a cloth roof up or down likes perfect both ways

 

[goldbcfc]

not cloth roof but looks better top up for sure....

 

[goldbcfc]

E46 can pull both looks off roof up or down with cloth roof probably one of the most iconic bmw made never looks old amongst the newest cars now that's a design classic

 

[z4pilot]

Have to disagree with you there - you've picked a selection of 4 seat convertibles - surely the most compromised design ethos of all. Even if you stick an M3 engine in a topless saloon it's still not going to be as good to drive as the equivalent coupe. So they're essentially just for posing and as someone once said to me, the last person to look impressive in a 4 seat convertible was Hitler :wink: