Put the monarchy back in charge? Debate.
- Thread starter micz4
- Start date
original guvnor said:
Erm... Actually I've only made the one post on the subject so it's hardly as if it's a reoccurring theme. (The other was just a light joke at someone else mentioning it). To my knowledge I've not made a single comment on any of the people who read the paper; my statement was with regards to the contents of the paper itself and not the people who who read it? And frankly I wouldn't bat an eyelid if you said "all black people are criminals", although I'm not sure why you mention that as if you're trying to turn this into a race issue...
You've mentioned the daily mail a lot. Don't be soft - the black people criminals thing was an illustration about generalising and tarring people with the same brush as you well know.
I wasn't just referring to this thread.
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/search.php?keywords=daily+mail&terms=all&author=Ste&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
That's strange because according to a search the only three posts from me mentioing "Daily Mail" are in this topic; you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? If I've missed any and posted about it but forgotten fair enough I'll hold my hands up...
Anyway, we've probably derailed the thread enough; the beauty of it all is that we can have differing opinions on the matter
That's strange because according to a search the only three posts from me mentioing "Daily Mail" are in this topic; you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? If I've missed any and posted about it but forgotten fair enough I'll hold my hands up...
Anyway, we've probably derailed the thread enough; the beauty of it all is that we can have differing opinions on the matter
Ste,
Sorry i wasn't meaning to be pernickety it's just that you picked on one of my major pet hates. The way the self-considered "intellectual left" (and that isn't directed at you at all by the way!) sneer at the Daily Mail and Daily Mail readers, as if to render anything they say as worthless - to quote Adamski and Nosa - "boils my piss"!! It's funny that they never sneer at the Daily Mirror or that they stopped sneering at Sun readers when the paper started supporting Labour. Funny that! I have just the same annoyance when people also go on about "guardian readers" too!
I thought I'd seen you refer to one of Carol's posts about the Daily Mail when you said "I stopped reading as soon as saw that" meaning the words Daily Mail. If that wasn't you please accept my apologies.
I've been enjoying this debate between you, Hunter and Nosa so please carry on!
Sorry i wasn't meaning to be pernickety it's just that you picked on one of my major pet hates. The way the self-considered "intellectual left" (and that isn't directed at you at all by the way!) sneer at the Daily Mail and Daily Mail readers, as if to render anything they say as worthless - to quote Adamski and Nosa - "boils my piss"!! It's funny that they never sneer at the Daily Mirror or that they stopped sneering at Sun readers when the paper started supporting Labour. Funny that! I have just the same annoyance when people also go on about "guardian readers" too!
I thought I'd seen you refer to one of Carol's posts about the Daily Mail when you said "I stopped reading as soon as saw that" meaning the words Daily Mail. If that wasn't you please accept my apologies.
I've been enjoying this debate between you, Hunter and Nosa so please carry on!
Hunter said:
I've seen the size of you on a photo - if you start the violence I'm on your side!
I think a debate such as this only goes to prove in my view that there "is" a problem with the justice system, Hamza is just one example thats in the spotlight because he is a particularly nasty piece of work who has managed to outwit the justice system for so long, there are in fact hundreds more like him going through the system at the moment, we dont know half of it, these terrorists are just one part of society aided by greedy lawyers who are making a mockery of the justice system, dont forget there are others managing to exploit the system, accident claims lawyers, illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, MPs, bankers, travellers and so on,it goes without saying that they are all entitled to a fair hearing but its plainly obvious that the appeals system is flawed and the justice system as a whole is NOT working.
The government could not kick Hamza out, the justice system cant kick him out, what an absolute disgrace this country is becoming and a laughing stock to the rest of the world, i wonder if the French would have this problem getting rid of him? i very much doubt it.
Our justice system has been compromised by European Human rights legislation and greedy lawyers exploiting legal aid and nobody appears to be able to do anything about it.
Does anybody know where in this country the power lies?
The government could not kick Hamza out, the justice system cant kick him out, what an absolute disgrace this country is becoming and a laughing stock to the rest of the world, i wonder if the French would have this problem getting rid of him? i very much doubt it.
Our justice system has been compromised by European Human rights legislation and greedy lawyers exploiting legal aid and nobody appears to be able to do anything about it.
Does anybody know where in this country the power lies?
:lol: :lol: :lol: Ste said:bigdog said:original guvnor said:
Exactly. Some people take things far to seriously.
It is in fact exasperation. This cleric is treated far more fairly than most. Then take this case in Texas and tell me something isn't wrong.. A women that lives in a cul de sac (no traffic) let her children outside to play. They were riding on electric razor's in front of the house. A nosy neighbor sees this and promptly calls the police and claims the mother was letting them play unsupervised. The neighbor made no attempt to go to the women's house to see what was going on. As if she had. She would have seen the mother sitting in a lawn chair in the front yard monitoring her children. The end result. The police arrest the mother. They can't get a hold of the father. As he is deployed to the middle east. So the police throw her into the police car and take her to jail. And the police left her kids to fend for themselves. She was released 18 hours later. I smell a law suit and justifiably so I might add. The police failed to make even the most cursory investigation at the scene. The mother was accused and so must go to jail. We'll investigate later.
But should you be an Islamic terrorist. Well! You can count on the EU coming to your rescue demanding that you review the courts decision, Then review the review of the courts decision, Then review the review of the review of the original court decision.
Thing is, It's easy to draw up one "horror story" example and contrast it with another unfortunate example to suit your own arguement, something the daily mail are very good at. I'm sure the number of "islamic terrorists" who've been dealt with swiftly by the full force of the law vastly outnumber the likes of old captain hook. As deplorable and ridiculous as the current situation may be and as much as I'm sure everyone agrees he should be on the first available plane out, I think it's fair to say it's the exception rather than the rule...
He'll be on a plane before long and probably spend the rest of his life in an american prison. But at least we can know we did things by the book and feel safe in the knowledge our justice system isn't so knee-jerk/gung-ho and we don't just turn up and throw mothers in prison as in the example. If I was arrested for a crime I'd like to think things would be done by the book and I have the full appeal process and safeguards in place for me to defend myself rather than people just deciding to skip a few things and do as they please because I'm obviously a bad egg.
Interesting. I've been on this forum for almost 3 years. And one thing has been true of everyone on this forum save for you. And that would be this. You are the first to try and hurl a thinly veiled insult my way. Even in a heated topic about guns. Mr. Stuart Truman whom disagreed with me was respectful.
No where in my post did I even remotely say that the system should be thrown out or not followed for everyone. I was merely pointing out one of the few bad points in our system. And that would be the following. Those involved with high profile cases such as this one involving Hamza. Will be very careful to follow the rules to the letter. And that's fine and how it should be. But! When it came to the Texas case I cited. The women was not a high profile individual and therefore proper procedures were not adhered to. The police reacted emotionally BEFORE investigating the facts. It was very, very easy for the police to assess the situation and come to a fair and equitable solution. By taking the mother away from her children and leaving them unsupervised for 18 hours. The police did in fact create the very scenario that the mother was falsely arrested for. Main point being that if you are an average low profile citizen you will stand a far greater chance of your rights being violated or abused.
Now wasn't that refreshing that I could respond to your veiled insult. Without resorting to insulting you.
Hmm, you apparently become insulted very easily... That wasn't my intention at all and I apologies if you were insulted by my post - just trying to get into the swing of a good old fashioned debate.
My main point was that we all know bad stories of how things have gone that shouldn't have happened, but these are thankfully by and large irregular rarities, and I didn't think a story, albeit a very sad story, of knee-jerk reaction policing in America has a great deal of relevance to our justice system in this country, except perhaps to point out how lucky we are that our system is more considered and checked.
My main point was that we all know bad stories of how things have gone that shouldn't have happened, but these are thankfully by and large irregular rarities, and I didn't think a story, albeit a very sad story, of knee-jerk reaction policing in America has a great deal of relevance to our justice system in this country, except perhaps to point out how lucky we are that our system is more considered and checked.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hunter said:
So now I am a bigoted racist and a Nazi, because I believe in the death sentence, any other badly made assumptions to throw at me. thanks for that
Just to clear the air so no one thinks there is any ongoing ill will. Had a nice PM with Ste. It's best to shake hands, Say sorry to each other about a misunderstanding and buy each other a virtual ale. :cheers: Time to move on nothing to see here folks. That's what great about this forum and it's members.