No Claims Discount query

[robbee]

Apologies in advance for my rant, but I think its important fellow members are made aware of demanding the total earned no claims discount at the end of each year.

When the time comes to renewing your yearly premium, if you've been claim free for more than 9 years, many insurers state your No Claims Discount as "9+" years on the renewal notice even when you actually have more years claim free. When you obtain online quotes, you can select up to 20+ years from 'Moneysupermarket.com, Compare the Market and Go-compare', and 15+ years from 'confused.com'.

I changed to Chris Knot 2 years ago, and towards the end of the first year, my renewal said 9+ years NCD. I called to say this should now be 13 years and told to send the proof, which I did before the renewal date. I just received my second years renewal with Chris Knot which again says 9+ years NCD. I called again, and after several conversations, was told they would only request 12 years total (10yrs from before plus 2 years earned with them) from the underwriters, AND the request could only be confirmed with underwriter 'after' the policy had lapsed. I said I already had 12 years, plus the 2 with them, should now be 14 years - at very least 13 years since I sent the 12 years confirmation last year before the renewal date, but still they insist 12 years total.

They kept asking me why I wanted the total since 9 years is the maximum you can earn, even when I said the comparison websites allow you to select up to 20 years. I was told to get quotes to see if 20 years makes any difference. I tried, and they were correct, the best quotes were the same, but that might just be for my circumstances.

So why do the comparison website give you the option for up to 20 years NCD if it makes no difference above 9 years?

Should I not have the right to ask for written confirmation of the total number of years I have been driving claim free?

I just think Chris Knot should correct this error which they seem reluctant to do. They weren't the cheapest these last two years though I thought I would try them as they seem to have a good review on here. I will be reverting to taking out the best online quote each year, which this year was £80 cheaper than Chris Knott renewal of £491.

With premiums ever increasing, any reduction makes a difference. Does anyone have experience obtaining better discounts with more than 9 years NCD?

Again, apologies for my long rant, but I have actually been driving for 27 years and never made a claim, yet my premium goes up every year.

Robbee

 

[Machine monkey]

I personally think CK should do one! I call them every year (not this year I was to busy) but I do call them for a joke and a giggle and a laugh most years!

You jump through the hoops and then they quote more than most main stream places!! Surly CK are just robbing, piss taking, b......s just my opinion from my experience!!

Please contact me CK with a decent quote 35 year old male. No points 3.0l z4 5 years RWD exsperiance. Lives in the Cotswolds car parked on a drive off the road! Driven 6k a year tops. Home owner married with a child!!!

I can see the response huge premium due to area,lack of exsperiance,mileage and age!!

As you can see I am not a fan lol

 

[ChrisKnottIns]

Machine monkey, we're brokers so it's not our rates we're ever quoting. Your beef should be with the insurers themselves who aren't offering quotes closer to your alternative quotes. And how are we robbing you if you don't take up the quote?

Are you serious about a quote? If so please supply a phone number so we can take full details.

 

[ChrisKnottIns]

Apologies in advance for my rant, but I think its important fellow members are made aware of demanding the total earned no claims discount at the end of each year.

When the time comes to renewing your yearly premium, if you've been claim free for more than 9 years, many insurers state your No Claims Discount as "9+" years on the renewal notice even when you actually have more years claim free. When you obtain online quotes, you can select up to 20+ years from 'Moneysupermarket.com, Compare the Market and Go-compare', and 15+ years from 'confused.com'.

I changed to Chris Knot 2 years ago, and towards the end of the first year, my renewal said 9+ years NCD. I called to say this should now be 13 years and told to send the proof, which I did before the renewal date. I just received my second years renewal with Chris Knot which again says 9+ years NCD. I called again, and after several conversations, was told they would only request 12 years total (10yrs from before plus 2 years earned with them) from the underwriters, AND the request could only be confirmed with underwriter 'after' the policy had lapsed. I said I already had 12 years, plus the 2 with them, should now be 14 years - at very least 13 years since I sent the 12 years confirmation last year before the renewal date, but still they insist 12 years total.

They kept asking me why I wanted the total since 9 years is the maximum you can earn, even when I said the comparison websites allow you to select up to 20 years. I was told to get quotes to see if 20 years makes any difference. I tried, and they were correct, the best quotes were the same, but that might just be for my circumstances.

So why do the comparison website give you the option for up to 20 years NCD if it makes no difference above 9 years?

Should I not have the right to ask for written confirmation of the total number of years I have been driving claim free?

I just think Chris Knot should correct this error which they seem reluctant to do. They weren't the cheapest these last two years though I thought I would try them as they seem to have a good review on here. I will be reverting to taking out the best online quote each year, which this year was £80 cheaper than Chris Knott renewal of £491.

With premiums ever increasing, any reduction makes a difference. Does anyone have experience obtaining better discounts with more than 9 years NCD?

Again, apologies for my long rant, but I have actually been driving for 27 years and never made a claim, yet my premium goes up every year.

Robbee

Hi,

You'll find that this is not a Chris Knott issue, it's the same across the board:- 9+ years is generally the maximum bonus (for some insurers it's 5 years) as the discount doesn't change thereafter. You get all the % discounts in the period up to the 9 years.

So whether you have 9 years or 99 years claims-free driving you can't get more than the maximum bonus (65-70%) you attained at 9 years.

I don't know why comparison websites give you the options up to 20 years but perhaps it's to cause confusion and make you think they're offering something special that you can't get elsewhere or one of their insurers offers a 20 year scale - I don't know. If the maximum discount is spread over a higher number of years each year's % increase in discount would be smaller of course.

 

[Ducklakeview]

If the maximum discount is spread over a higher number of years each year's % increase in discount would be smaller of course.

And of course, in the event of a claim, the "step-back" % would be smaller too? NOT.

TBH, as CK stated, once you get to "max" at 6/7 years, anything else is just a number. I think CK is right, and that the comparison websites are trying to lull peeps into thinking they are getting more of a discount if they enter 9+ years, when in fact, they won't be, but it then gets people thinking, and asking "Why?" as per the OP...

And yes, I have spent time as both an underwriter, and a branch manager for a large muti-insurer.

Mike

 

[Bing]

To provide some defence of CK, I have been with them for a few years now and they have always matched or bettered any alternative quote I have presented them with when it comes to renewal time.

That said, it annoys me that they are a broker, apparently working to get me the best deal, but in fact every year I have to do all the leg work to prove that I could leave for a cheaper insurer. Surely a better business model would be to proactively look for the best quote for your customers, save them the effort, and as a result earn loyalty in a marketplace that historically encourages none at all... after all, it's cheaper to keep customers than find new ones.

Anyhow, I've not had to claim yet fortunately, but my experience of CK has been more positive than anything else.

 

[Smartbear]

To provide some defence of CK, I have been with them for a few years now and they have always matched or bettered any alternative quote I have presented them with when it comes to renewal time.

That said, it annoys me that they are a broker, apparently working to get me the best deal, but in fact every year I have to do all the leg work to prove that I could leave for a cheaper insurer. Surely a better business model would be to proactively look for the best quote for your customers, save them the effort, and as a result earn loyalty in a marketplace that historically encourages none at all... after all, it's cheaper to keep customers than find new ones.

Anyhow, I've not had to claim yet fortunately, but my experience of CK has been more positive than anything else.

Agree Bing, its the same as the energy providers, ive just left for a cheaper deal but when it came to closing my account they tried to bribe me back with better rates.
Why not quote the best price initially!!!
Rob

 

[ChrisKnottIns]

To provide some defence of CK, I have been with them for a few years now and they have always matched or bettered any alternative quote I have presented them with when it comes to renewal time.

That said, it annoys me that they are a broker, apparently working to get me the best deal, but in fact every year I have to do all the leg work to prove that I could leave for a cheaper insurer. Surely a better business model would be to proactively look for the best quote for your customers, save them the effort, and as a result earn loyalty in a marketplace that historically encourages none at all... after all, it's cheaper to keep customers than find new ones.

Anyhow, I've not had to claim yet fortunately, but my experience of CK has been more positive than anything else.

No-one has access to the whole insurance market, indeed there are companies that don't even sell via brokers so it's possible there are quotes out there that we're not aware of. The bonus of using us is that we can negotiate with your insurer on your behalf if you've had a better quote than their invited renewal. So it's more about you giving us the ammo to get them to budge and encourage them to adjust if they want to keep you. We have a retention rate of about 80% so it's a method that does work to members' benefit.

 

[85genius]

That said, it annoys me that they are a broker, apparently working to get me the best deal, but in fact every year I have to do all the leg work to prove that I could leave for a cheaper insurer. Surely a better business model would be to proactively look for the best quote for your customers, save them the effort

Surely though the difference between the first quote they give you and the best quote they get when matching what you found online comes from their profit margin so it would be mad of them to give you the best possible price unless you force them

 

[Ducklakeview]

That said, it annoys me that they are a broker, apparently working to get me the best deal, but in fact every year I have to do all the leg work to prove that I could leave for a cheaper insurer. Surely a better business model would be to proactively look for the best quote for your customers, save them the effort

Surely though the difference between the first quote they give you and the best quote they get when matching what you found online comes from their profit margin so it would be mad of them to give you the best possible price unless you force them

Wholeheartedly agree. I have my (motor trade) policy direct with a Lloyd's broker, and they have consistently, year on year reduced my premium, to the point where it was £855 at renewal in June, not bad to cover 2 cars, 1 van, 1 motorbike AND any other vehicle in my possession or use, both for motor trade purposes, and in connection with the shops, and that's also for ANY driver over 25..

When renewing my RAC/AA a few weeks back, I had the same, it was £80 odd with RAC after "top cashback" of £60 last year, so I normally swap annually between RAC/AA and do the cashback thing. Sure enough, my renewal with RAC came in the post, just over £190, so I was about to hit the button with the AA, £177, minus £80 cashback, when I got a call from RAC to see why I hadn't renewed, as it was due that day. I told her straight, and without even "seeking approval" she agreed to slash the renewal to £79, saving over £110! When I asked her why they hadn't just offered me that price in the first place, she couldn't tell me.. Obviously some people will blindly renew.

Mike

 

[original guvnor]

80% retention rate just means you have lazy customers who can't be bothered to shop around.

The whole car insurance market is a racket. I have two cars, on two separate insurance policies (because it's cheaper than multi-car for me). So I have to earn two separate no claims bonuses on each car - they aren't transferable on a non-multi-car policy. Yet if I have a claim, irrespective of which car it is in, I would lose NCD on both cars. How is that right?

Don't get me started on them flogging your details to accident management companies for commission presumably.

It's high time the Competition Commission were given real teeth to sort this cartel out once and for all.

 

[Ducklakeview]

80% retention rate just means you have lazy customers who can't be bothered to shop around.

+1!

And..

Don't get me started on them flogging your details to accident management companies for commission presumably.

Tell me about it, one of my employees was rear ended last week, after she had gotten off the phone to her insurers, just to "notify" them, not to make a claim, within SECONDS her phone started ringing, and it was a PUSHY "claims mgt co" offering her a hire car later that day etc. She politely refused, and then rang my solicitor friend to instruct, however, she was harassed to death by these guys who even sent forms for her to sign. They could ONLY have gotten her name/address from her insurers.

Mike

 

[ChrisKnottIns]

We only work with car club and forum members and I think you are probably some of the most informed insurance buyers in the UK. I don't for a second think clients in the enthusiast market are lazy when it comes to hunting out a good deal. Please also be assured that we do NOT pass on your details to ANYONE other than your insurer for the purposes of effecting your cover. So if your data ends up with an AMC it won't be down to us.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to chime in here with a levelling post...

CK had never come remotely close to any of my previous quotes on my cars, nor my fathers (range of fast Audis, Porkas, Astons), regardless of spotless licences and claims history.

This year, however, they beat both my quotes on the Zed by a decent amount and the "new starter" Golf I've bought for my fiancee. The quote was still high, but no NCB to use as it's on the Zed and a driver who hasn't held a policy for 9 years due to driving other cars meant it was always going to be.

So in summary, thanks to the guys for giving me at least another 6 months on the Zed before the wedding forces sale!

 

[dhobbs]

If the insurers always gave out the best quote, then the average premium will rise. Those lazy people who blindly renew pay for those of us that search for the best price.
Remember insurance companies are in it to make money (they're not charities).

 

[Lower]

We only work with car club and forum members and I think you are probably some of the most informed insurance buyers in the UK. I don't for a second think clients in the enthusiast market are lazy when it comes to hunting out a good deal. Please also be assured that we do NOT pass on your details to ANYONE other than your insurer for the purposes of effecting your cover. So if your data ends up with an AMC it won't be down to us.

That is not quite true though, is it. If you're in an accident Chris Knott instruct their clients to call a number that is a firm of accident management solicitors who act on your behalf. You don't make it clear that the number that you're ringing is not actually Chris Knott. So when a distressed person who has just been in an accident calls the number on your correspondence they end up talking to a claims handler from the claims management company. One of the first things that claims handlers does is tell you that you are liable for any costs they or you incur that are not recoverable from your or the third party's insurer and get agreement from you before they agree to do anything to help you. When that client has just been in an accident and is standing by the side of the road next to their smashed up car, getting agreement from that client is easy for the claims management company as the client is wondering who the hell they are talking to but will say anything to get the help they need.

That claims management company then tries to screw the insurer as much as possible along the way, with the ongoing statement that you may be liable for any costs that they incur. That same claims management company also owns a car hire company and a medical assessment company. The hire car you end up in (expensive and not your choice) comes from a mainstream car hire company but the transaction goes through the claims management company's sister car hire company so that the cost can be further inflated. Should you need a medical assessment, i'm sure the same would apply. The claims management company's engineer that comes out to assess you car then tells the bodyshop that you've nominated that they should increase their repair cost because the claims management company will demand a rebate from them. At every stage of the process the claims management company reminds you that you are liable for any costs they can't recover. Lastly, when the claim is completed, the claims management company puts pressure on you to agree to go to court to help them recover their costs, again reminding you that you originally agreed by the side of the road that if they can't recover any costs, you will be liable. When you get annoyed with the pressure they are putting on you, they start writing lots of legal letters to scare you and reinforce the fact that you are liable to them.

So the claim that originally would have cost £850 in repair costs to the bodyshop ends up with an invoice for around £1200+vat and the overall claim ends up costing upwards of £2500. The inflated value of the claim now goes on your clients claim history.

Not only has the claims management company made a load of money out of your misfortune, you then find that you probably actually paid a premium for legal protection. That legal protection is primarily the claims management company who are supposed to be acting on your behalf but are just using your accident as a vehicle for them to make money rather than look after you as their client.

I am a Chris Knott repeat customer and actually think Chris Knott do a good job as a broker. But in my opinion the use of claims management companies who act as per the above is disgraceful. Unfortunately, the above seems to be the case throughout the insurance industry, and we wonder why our premiums keep going up......

 

[ChrisKnottIns]

OK we're getting into semantics here. Yes you're right - we do give your claims handler some data once you've begun a claim and instructed them to act for you. What I'm trying to say is that we only pass on data as necessary to service your policy. We don't sell-on data or share it for any other purpose than effecting and administering your cover.

 

[pvr]

Scary stuff

 

[Ducklakeview]

Which is why, in the event of a non fault accident, I will only use my own solicitor, who will write off any of their costs that are not recoverable. Indeed a few years ago, I was rear ended whist stationary in a parking bay. Damage to my car was non apparent, but the third party and her three sons were insistent that it was my fault. It went to court and we actually lost as they lied through their teeth. My solicitors costs with the barrister etc were north of £10k. He just wrote them off. Needless to say he'll have made good money from me over the years, as when I was on the cabs you could virtually guarantee a non-fault collision every couple of months in Liverpool. And I made sure any of my settle car drivers also used him.

After losing in court, I went and fitted twin cameras to my car, as it was just their word against mine. Needless to say, this has never happened since as any collision had been caught on camera.

Mike