MC on Pistonheads
- Thread starter DevonPaul
- Start date
Some of the pistonheads auctions I've kept an eye on have struggled to get good prices. Some of the cars they've put up for auction have been poor examples.
I don't underselling cars like the Z4M with faults such as a faulty handbrake. It might be an easy fix, but you will put buyers off due to poor maintenance.
They've set the guide at £14-15000. The other guide prices I've seen are usually very optimistic.
I don't underselling cars like the Z4M with faults such as a faulty handbrake. It might be an easy fix, but you will put buyers off due to poor maintenance.
They've set the guide at £14-15000. The other guide prices I've seen are usually very optimistic.
The images have been shot with a polariser and not edited all that well.
The paint looks pretty rough needs a good cut and polish and what's the expanded foam in the front bumper?
The exhaust is also not hanging properly so would think half the original hardware is missing. Had the same issue on mine and the cost for all the original hardware was an eye opener.
Think who ever buys this needs to go in eyes open especially as there isn’t any of the key service items you would like to see done. Probably 3-5k on top to put it right with piece of mind which is why the 14-15k estimate.
That being said if your handy it could be a cheap way into a coupe.
The paint looks pretty rough needs a good cut and polish and what's the expanded foam in the front bumper?
The exhaust is also not hanging properly so would think half the original hardware is missing. Had the same issue on mine and the cost for all the original hardware was an eye opener.
Think who ever buys this needs to go in eyes open especially as there isn’t any of the key service items you would like to see done. Probably 3-5k on top to put it right with piece of mind which is why the 14-15k estimate.
That being said if your handy it could be a cheap way into a coupe.
Hammer fell at £11,250. Didn't make its reserve.
If it sold the final buyer price would have been £12,060. after 6% buyers premium and Vat
Wish I'd thrown my hat in the ring for it now. Interesting view on the market though with handfulls on a nearly twice that price.
If it sold the final buyer price would have been £12,060. after 6% buyers premium and Vat
Wish I'd thrown my hat in the ring for it now. Interesting view on the market though with handfulls on a nearly twice that price.
Sadly our enthusiasts market is in a global free fall, with the end of the bell curve not yet in sight. Far more sellers than buyers for most brands across the board. Any of us thinking of a change, or investing in another car have a very wide choice available to choose from.
And to be fair the last time was around 2008, remember when our beloved E86's sat around on showroom floors, and shock horror you could get discount on new price.
If you bought an interesting fast car in the past couple of years (leading up to Covid, and then the frenzy afterwards) we have paid too much......and doubt any recovery down the line will raise the value to where they were.
And to be fair the last time was around 2008, remember when our beloved E86's sat around on showroom floors, and shock horror you could get discount on new price.
If you bought an interesting fast car in the past couple of years (leading up to Covid, and then the frenzy afterwards) we have paid too much......and doubt any recovery down the line will raise the value to where they were.
Mr Tidy said:Luckily I got my MC for a good price in December 2019, then in 2020 prices just went crazy!
It looks like maybe they are settling back towards pre-Covid levels.
I just checked my emails, I can't believe it was the end of 2015 when the Mrs got hers. Definitely time for a change, and looking at prices we'll probably only have paid running costs.
Just need to get her to try a Mclaren for the weekend
The values of cars is coming down. The crazy prices during covid had to stop at some point. The problem is too many people have paid too much in the last few years still thinking values would continue to rise.
Too many cars getting sold on Pistonheads Auctions are a bit rough. Pistonheads need to improve their reputation if they want to help buyers get better values for cars. Cherry pick good cars and request sellers get things fixed on the car rather than selling cars with faults.
Too many cars getting sold on Pistonheads Auctions are a bit rough. Pistonheads need to improve their reputation if they want to help buyers get better values for cars. Cherry pick good cars and request sellers get things fixed on the car rather than selling cars with faults.
The thing is Z4Ms didnt appreciate through covid in fact they have been flatlining for a long time but the rest of the market in free fall the Z4Ms are too which for buyers means great bargains, for sellers its really depressing. As always things will recover, just depends where you are keeper or short term.
Obviously the tops and bottoms of the market are different but generally not much has moved. Just a few speculators and you will see all those cars are still for sale.
For example I bought a 2006 Z4MC in 2011 from the dealer with a 2 year warranty for 17.5k with 46k miles. In today's money that car is worth 26k which is about the going rate for a similar milage coupe. Pretty much inflation. 13 years ago that wasn't particularly low milage but for an 18 year old car it is.
I don't think this is representative of the market.
It wouldn't take much to make this a nice example if it's all ok but there are too many unknowns with it. The bodged expanded foam front bumper, handbrake, paint is really swirled etc the handbrake has probably failed and its rolled into something and the bumper has been bodged. Why you would go into a sale with it like that ive no idea. They are niche cars anyway and this makes it more niche.
It doesn't look like the last owner has looked after it particularly well and to any perspective buyer who knows anything about these there are too many red flags to make it worth the reserve hence the hammer number. Anyone would go into this needing to have a bit more margin incase its hiding something sinister.
You could easily be £5k into an M on standard service items let alone a bodged front bumper that anything could be lurking behind. If its had a front bang and they have put a new bumper on it for example and its unrecorded who knows. A new bumper if you can even still get them and paint is probably in the 1500-2k range with paint.
Now if you bought it and the bumper just isnt aligned or the brakets have broken then awesome 11k would be a complete steal.
These auction platforms put me off for this reason as it seems you get quite a few of the dregs and the sellers don't have to deal with tyre kickers. Like sticking something in Copart could be epic most likely won't be not but it's the thrill of the bargain these auctions create.
My grandma used to say buy something cheap and buy it twice. These cars are certainly in that bracket if it's a bad example and when they aren't worth a lot anyway with absolute top examples being 25-30k... but the costs to keep and maintain are high. If you get landed you could be in pretty good negative equity.
Again if you are handy most of the above will be redundant but for the rest you could get in hot water easily.
Obviously the tops and bottoms of the market are different but generally not much has moved. Just a few speculators and you will see all those cars are still for sale.
For example I bought a 2006 Z4MC in 2011 from the dealer with a 2 year warranty for 17.5k with 46k miles. In today's money that car is worth 26k which is about the going rate for a similar milage coupe. Pretty much inflation. 13 years ago that wasn't particularly low milage but for an 18 year old car it is.
I don't think this is representative of the market.
It wouldn't take much to make this a nice example if it's all ok but there are too many unknowns with it. The bodged expanded foam front bumper, handbrake, paint is really swirled etc the handbrake has probably failed and its rolled into something and the bumper has been bodged. Why you would go into a sale with it like that ive no idea. They are niche cars anyway and this makes it more niche.
It doesn't look like the last owner has looked after it particularly well and to any perspective buyer who knows anything about these there are too many red flags to make it worth the reserve hence the hammer number. Anyone would go into this needing to have a bit more margin incase its hiding something sinister.
You could easily be £5k into an M on standard service items let alone a bodged front bumper that anything could be lurking behind. If its had a front bang and they have put a new bumper on it for example and its unrecorded who knows. A new bumper if you can even still get them and paint is probably in the 1500-2k range with paint.
Now if you bought it and the bumper just isnt aligned or the brakets have broken then awesome 11k would be a complete steal.
These auction platforms put me off for this reason as it seems you get quite a few of the dregs and the sellers don't have to deal with tyre kickers. Like sticking something in Copart could be epic most likely won't be not but it's the thrill of the bargain these auctions create.
My grandma used to say buy something cheap and buy it twice. These cars are certainly in that bracket if it's a bad example and when they aren't worth a lot anyway with absolute top examples being 25-30k... but the costs to keep and maintain are high. If you get landed you could be in pretty good negative equity.
Again if you are handy most of the above will be redundant but for the rest you could get in hot water easily.
I still struggle to understand people who regard these as collectors cars. They're fun and they're exciting to drive and they're good to look at, but anyone who thinks they're collectible and is buying to make a profit (or even insulate themselves from the annual cost of ownership) is deluded at best. The cost of tax and insurance (let alone keeping up with servicing, tyres etc) surely means most people need a car to be appreciating at rate of at LEAST £1k per year ABOVE inflation for the car to cost you nothing during ownership.
I get why people like having immaculate, low mileage examples, but (speaking from a position of having done this with a different car) I'd contend that the joy of actually using an immaculate low mileage car is completely drowned out by the anxiety of losing money on the resale due to accruing mileage and normal chips and wear and tear from regular use.
I also personally think the current climate (excuse the pun) as regards the future of ice cars means there is a real lack of any predictability in future values for all but the rarest and most exclusive collectors cars (basically stuff that can almost be considered 'automotive art' as well as a car imo)
Sadly (depending on how you view these things) for us lot I think a niche 2 seater M car that always had a reputation for handling less well, and being less practical than the e46 m3 upon which it shared so many mechanical parts (not to. Mention the e46 m3s reputation amongst a lot of people as the greatest 3series M car ever), I simply can't see the 'watershed' moment where the Z4M values suddenly start to rise.
Anyway all this is frankly irrelevant to me either way, I will never willingly sell mine, Im still smitten with how it looks and how exciting it is to drive now 5 years on, and mines pretty far from an immaculate original example so will never be worth much to a purist/collector. I'll just enjoy the experience as much as I possibly can until the government decide my paltry annual mileage is more dangerous for global emissions than all the mining lithium mining and min pro operations around the world working to produce batteries for evs, and ban ice cars.
Fucking shambolic virtue signalling country we live in.
All done :lol:
I get why people like having immaculate, low mileage examples, but (speaking from a position of having done this with a different car) I'd contend that the joy of actually using an immaculate low mileage car is completely drowned out by the anxiety of losing money on the resale due to accruing mileage and normal chips and wear and tear from regular use.
I also personally think the current climate (excuse the pun) as regards the future of ice cars means there is a real lack of any predictability in future values for all but the rarest and most exclusive collectors cars (basically stuff that can almost be considered 'automotive art' as well as a car imo)
Sadly (depending on how you view these things) for us lot I think a niche 2 seater M car that always had a reputation for handling less well, and being less practical than the e46 m3 upon which it shared so many mechanical parts (not to. Mention the e46 m3s reputation amongst a lot of people as the greatest 3series M car ever), I simply can't see the 'watershed' moment where the Z4M values suddenly start to rise.
Anyway all this is frankly irrelevant to me either way, I will never willingly sell mine, Im still smitten with how it looks and how exciting it is to drive now 5 years on, and mines pretty far from an immaculate original example so will never be worth much to a purist/collector. I'll just enjoy the experience as much as I possibly can until the government decide my paltry annual mileage is more dangerous for global emissions than all the mining lithium mining and min pro operations around the world working to produce batteries for evs, and ban ice cars.
Fucking shambolic virtue signalling country we live in.
All done :lol:
I think that is a fair assessment. I bought one to accompany other bits and pieces because it was a real car. They will never make them like this again. So it’s an experience thing. Is my e89 better to travel to Costa del sol in - yes. Much better. But the ZM is epic and will probably not really drop in value but in real terms with costs yes you need to pay for it….as with most nice things really
I think sooner or later the market will realise that these cars are under-valued, but that might be so far away that it makes no sense to treat them as an investment today unless you take enjoyment from owning a garage queen and are happy to play a (really) long game.
The Z3M also wasn't especially well-reviewed when new and has no motorsport heritage or established kudos as a driving tool, but prices of those (especially the breadvan) while not spectacular look fairly firm and certainly aren't going down.
I could see a really low miles and top-notch Z4MC hitting £40-50k at some point, but it could be far down the line.
The Z3M also wasn't especially well-reviewed when new and has no motorsport heritage or established kudos as a driving tool, but prices of those (especially the breadvan) while not spectacular look fairly firm and certainly aren't going down.
I could see a really low miles and top-notch Z4MC hitting £40-50k at some point, but it could be far down the line.
plenty said:
Cars at the top and bottom will always get raised eyebrows. I could totally see a mint Z4M coupe going for 40-50 and a couple already have. There was a 3600 mile imola coupe not that long ago up for 46k if I remember. Pretty sure it was bought by SuroopDhaliwal on instagram if your interested. He's a collector with loads of incredibly low milage cars... would love to go photograph his collection.
The Z3M was the original and its so weird it has a following for good and bad reasons.
People been saying about the appreciation for 10+ years and it hasn't really happened, two more years and the Z4M will be 20 years old. End of the day all the other great M cars have more than 2 seats and most young adults want fast hatches or M3/4 which are so tunable it's ridiculous. Just have to go to meets like Ultimate BMW, full of exactly this. BMW now has a different audience and it that perspective they are killing it just not my cup of tea.
Really hard to find any of the newer generation cars at meets that havent been really heavily modified. In that world these cars are small, slow and cost a fortune to run.
If you look at the market there are almost no 2 seaters available they have completely fallen out of favour. The Boxster and possibly MX5 are the only successful 2 seaters all the rest are selling so few numbers they are on the verge of being cut. Like the new Z4 it had potential and it could if they put a bit more effort into the chassis and put an S engine in it. In reality its nice but its not too dissimilar than a 3 series to drive but non of the benefits albeit the roof.
It was really funny at Ultimate BMW we took nearly 30 Z4s and one or two made it on the thousands of insta posts and the only one that got attentions was VADs modified GT E89. Nobody really appreciated them at all! lol
That being said I love how rare it is and that its unknown and under appreciated because nobody cares when you drive it, I had a Boxster and 911 for a while and I had numerous occasions of bad experiences with other drivers trying to intimidate etc never get any of that in the Z because nobody knows what it is. If anything ive had quite a few people accusing me of putting M badges on mine :lol: because it isnt badged like other M cars with the model designation.
It's never going to be stratospheric appreciation as you need a properly wide audience and something really aspirational, like an air-cooled 911.
But I see values 'firming up' eventually. The Z3M was the first of its kind and the Z4M the last: NA, manual, S54.
The only problem with pursuing this approach is that the cars can be hard to sell, but that's a price I'm willing to pay to drive rare cars.
But I see values 'firming up' eventually. The Z3M was the first of its kind and the Z4M the last: NA, manual, S54.
I'm totally with you on that one. I've made a career of owning cars that fly under most people's radar. I was at the Collecting Cars Bicester Heritage event last month and I swear at least 40% of the cars there were Porsches. I've owned Porsches myself and appreciate them, but they're such an obvious choice.tomscott said:
The only problem with pursuing this approach is that the cars can be hard to sell, but that's a price I'm willing to pay to drive rare cars.