Malaysian Airlines 777 down over Ukraine
- Thread starter Geezah
- Start date
So what were the original civilian uprising called that began the coup? Nobody called them terrorists.
What's the difference between them rioting and the then gov not using full military means against them and the current civilians uprising against a fascist coup gov that use full military means against entire civilian populations??
The difference... propaganda and agenda.
What's the difference between them rioting and the then gov not using full military means against them and the current civilians uprising against a fascist coup gov that use full military means against entire civilian populations??
The difference... propaganda and agenda.
T2FFN said:
An uprising whipped up Moscow so they had an excuse to roll into Ukraine which is nothing to do with Russia. There are also plenty of Ukranians who want to stay just that with affiliation to the west. We don't really know who the Russian backed rebels are? I suspect more closely linked to Moscow than you I realise. Strange most of them wear balaclavas. Like I said Putin is stalling and slowly being backed into a corner with no way out and only time will expose him for what he really is.
Remember Hitler had the idea of reforming the old Germania, Austria, Sudatenland or anywhere with a German speaking population.
Thank god the same western leaders we have today werent around 75 years ago.
Tim.
I dont want to start a conspiracy theory thing ....... but when accusations are being flung about ....... about who did what, I want to raise a comment that Queen Noor of Jordan once made ......
"if you want to know the truth of something, or at least have a decent insight into the reality of something, look at the end result, see who benefitted and work it backwards"
Right now the entire world has turned against Putin for supplying the rebels ...... the likelyhood is that he will be forced to take away his support ........ the beneficiary would be the The Ukranian Government who are trying to retain control.
Im not saying that this is the case ...... just keep an open mind .......
"if you want to know the truth of something, or at least have a decent insight into the reality of something, look at the end result, see who benefitted and work it backwards"
Right now the entire world has turned against Putin for supplying the rebels ...... the likelyhood is that he will be forced to take away his support ........ the beneficiary would be the The Ukranian Government who are trying to retain control.
Im not saying that this is the case ...... just keep an open mind .......
teamemmenracing said:I dont want to start a conspiracy theory thing ....... but when accusations are being flung about ....... about who did what, I want to raise a comment that Queen Noor of Jordan once made ......
"if you want to know the truth of something, or at least have a decent insight into the reality of something, look at the end result, see who benefitted and work it backwards"
Right now the entire world has turned against Putin for supplying the rebels ...... the likelyhood is that he will be forced to take away his support ........ the beneficiary would be the The Ukranian Government who are trying to retain control.
Im not saying that this is the case ...... just keep an open mind .......
With today's 24 hour instant media coverage nothing is validated, confirmed or reflected upon before it's out there - there is lots of data but No real information - there is a yawning gap to fill by an independent who is prepared to gather all the facts and try to present a balanced factual summary for consumption
Very few truely independent news channels doesn't help
The question remains though - when does a protest then sit in then mobs with demands then acts of destruction and barbarism become a recognised and valid struggle for independence? It seems to me depending on what our own beliefs and prejudices are one is a justified uprising the other terrorism
The USA entered world war one as a result of the loss of hundreds of US citizens when a German U-boat sunk the liner Lusitania, and started the global 'war on terror' after 9-11. Accepting that the majority of these tragic deaths were Dutch nationals and the Dutch don't have the resources (or reputation) for taking military action, but these are still dangerous times. I'm not sure what the response would have been if it had been a US aircraft or had large numbers of US citizens on board and I'm guessing Putin is thinking the same hence his muted response.
T2FFN said:
Look on the bright side, at least the Iraqi population aren't being gassed like they used to be.
Best thing the west could do is put the silly sanctions to one side and put boots on the ground, just to give Putin something to really think about. Of course it will never happen.
Tim.
Lightning87
Member
Iraq is a non State from the beginning t2ffn, the borders of the countries in the middle east (and africa) were drawn up by western powers. They didn't look At the tribal/religious differnces witch causes the lagergest problems in those countries.
East Ukraine was heavily russianfied by Stalin after WW2, and that made all the problems in Ukraine now.
War shouldn't be option, but the people responsible should be caught en convicted, and their should be full acces tot the crash site and all info. If not, their should be an intervention off any sort to make that happen. Butt stil no full out war with russia.
East Ukraine was heavily russianfied by Stalin after WW2, and that made all the problems in Ukraine now.
War shouldn't be option, but the people responsible should be caught en convicted, and their should be full acces tot the crash site and all info. If not, their should be an intervention off any sort to make that happen. Butt stil no full out war with russia.
Just a comment "...........
As far back as the seventies the Americans claimed they could see any missile fired anywhere .......
and yet we still have heard nothing from them about this incident .........
As far back as the seventies the Americans claimed they could see any missile fired anywhere .......
and yet we still have heard nothing from them about this incident .........
I think that's more ICBMs rather than SAM/AAM/SRAAM. I also think this is based on locations of radar bases and how advanced said missiles are - so the MDA can shoot things down with their 10 different missile defence shields.
This was either Air to Air - as in, Ukraine/Russian jets shooting it down directly, or SAM's in the form of the BUKS or similarly large SAM site. Here i think the rebels/Russians are the only ones to blame.
It was either a ukrainian jet shooting it down accidentally/on purpose (cue conspiracy theorists..). I've no idea why that would happen though, doesn't make sense to me - as they're not anticipating unfriendly air traffic. .. OR it was russians/russian influenced rebels that did it. There's clearly a lot going on on the ground there that nobody has any idea about. There have been sightings of russian tanks in eastern Ukraine - wtf is that about.
This was either Air to Air - as in, Ukraine/Russian jets shooting it down directly, or SAM's in the form of the BUKS or similarly large SAM site. Here i think the rebels/Russians are the only ones to blame.
It was either a ukrainian jet shooting it down accidentally/on purpose (cue conspiracy theorists..). I've no idea why that would happen though, doesn't make sense to me - as they're not anticipating unfriendly air traffic. .. OR it was russians/russian influenced rebels that did it. There's clearly a lot going on on the ground there that nobody has any idea about. There have been sightings of russian tanks in eastern Ukraine - wtf is that about.