Malaysia Airlines Plane
- Thread starter Carol M
- Start date
Carol M said:
Could just be in a big shed. But I'm not convinced that the Malaysians, The US or India are as lacking in knowledge as they would have you believe. Firstly, Uncle Sam spends a great deal of time watching every inch of the planet from space with some pretty clever gear. You'd have to have a lot of specialist top secret knowledge to evade overflight by a spy sat. Secondly, India's airspace is very, very well protected. Thirdly, whilst we may have a 'no negotiation' policy in the West, I'm not so sure the Malaysians subscribe to the same policy... And if they have been forced to negotiate - so it's a hostage situation, not a terrorism event - then the last thing they or the hijackers will want is publicity of the fact. Just some thoughts.
Been saying it's been hijacked/stolen for days, sadly looks like I may be right 
@Bing: Think it'd be fairly accurate to say that between the Chinese and Russians, they have espionage ability to spy on most of the planet through the likes of spy satellites, hacked networks etc. However, these satellites still can only look certain places when pointed there, I doubt very much that every inch of the globe is 100% covered by a satellite at any one time. Without knowing there was a problem, why would they chose to be following a random commercial plane in the far east. In real time it seems that far too much dependence is placed on secondary radar coverage, presumerably due to the sheer traffic in the air these days. Primary radar in military looking posts etc is still available, but apparently not actively monitored with a clear command chain should something suspicious come up, so it's only through checking back recorded tapes of coverage is something noticed, after it's too late. If nothing else this incident highlights a grave security flaw in the defence of these countries.
Don't think suggestions of India or Pakistan are particularly plausible. While it seems the radar and surveillance capabilities of Malaysia and Southern Thailand are below what you'd expect I highly doubt you'd be able to overfly all of Indian or approach the coast of Pakistan in the same manner, there's just too much military hardware and suspicion in these places.
Whoever it was that took the jet off course, pilot or otherwise, was clearly a skilled aviator who had meticulously planned the event, so I struggle to believe whatever plan they had resulted in the aircraft crashing in the middle of the ocean unless some sort of intercepion be that by the passengers/flight crew or by exterior sources occurred.
Still very very confusing.
@Bing: Think it'd be fairly accurate to say that between the Chinese and Russians, they have espionage ability to spy on most of the planet through the likes of spy satellites, hacked networks etc. However, these satellites still can only look certain places when pointed there, I doubt very much that every inch of the globe is 100% covered by a satellite at any one time. Without knowing there was a problem, why would they chose to be following a random commercial plane in the far east. In real time it seems that far too much dependence is placed on secondary radar coverage, presumerably due to the sheer traffic in the air these days. Primary radar in military looking posts etc is still available, but apparently not actively monitored with a clear command chain should something suspicious come up, so it's only through checking back recorded tapes of coverage is something noticed, after it's too late. If nothing else this incident highlights a grave security flaw in the defence of these countries.
Don't think suggestions of India or Pakistan are particularly plausible. While it seems the radar and surveillance capabilities of Malaysia and Southern Thailand are below what you'd expect I highly doubt you'd be able to overfly all of Indian or approach the coast of Pakistan in the same manner, there's just too much military hardware and suspicion in these places.
Whoever it was that took the jet off course, pilot or otherwise, was clearly a skilled aviator who had meticulously planned the event, so I struggle to believe whatever plan they had resulted in the aircraft crashing in the middle of the ocean unless some sort of intercepion be that by the passengers/flight crew or by exterior sources occurred.
Still very very confusing.
pvr said:
No you can't refuel a standard commercial 777 in mid-air.
As for your second point, according to this:
"The first we knew they were coming was after they had crossed the Durand line," Ayaz says, referring to the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
"There were four helicopters coming in very low and the protocols set in. Jets were being scrambled, but they were called back in as the US then informed the High Command."
Military traffic in the air in Afghanistan is probably nothing new, but the second it crossed into Pakistan territories jets were scrambled. And that's just four stealth attack helicopters, not a great big 777 jumbo jet.
They are now saying that certain satellite information is now confirming that the aircraft was deliberately diverted, not being an expert on satellites or knowing anything about the way they apparently communicate with aircraft, the bit I don’t get is:
Firstly why have they been searching several areas of sea for the last seven days when they are now saying that the aircraft changed its course within an hour of take off and if it did go down would be thousands of miles away from where they have been searching?
Secondly why has it taken 7 days to find this out, surely with so many lives involved a bit of urgency would prevail?
Thirdly why is it that they are saying it either flew an arc North West or South East two opposites surely this satellite equipment must be able to say which way it went, if it can’t they how do they know it didn’t go an arc North East or South West or an arc East or West or North and South?
Firstly why have they been searching several areas of sea for the last seven days when they are now saying that the aircraft changed its course within an hour of take off and if it did go down would be thousands of miles away from where they have been searching?
Secondly why has it taken 7 days to find this out, surely with so many lives involved a bit of urgency would prevail?
Thirdly why is it that they are saying it either flew an arc North West or South East two opposites surely this satellite equipment must be able to say which way it went, if it can’t they how do they know it didn’t go an arc North East or South West or an arc East or West or North and South?
Converted Steve said:
My understanding is that someone knowledgeable and skillful enough managed to avoid civilian radar, flying threw corridors which were only monitored by military and I'm sure there's not a government out there that wants to expose just how their defensive or spy tracking satellite systems work. I've heard reports that the methods they are using to trace the flight path is new territory and no one has used satellite images in the manor which they are being used to track this plane, but personally I would bet that some high ranking people have known for a while where it went.
What about these examples - couldn't find the one I had a memory of ( Chinese brought down a 747 ?) but if you look further there are many examples of military mistakes and deliberate downing a of civil aircraft?
Korean Air Lines Flight 007, also known as KAL 007 or KE007, was a Korean Air Lines Boeing 747 civilian airliner shot down by a Soviet Su-15TM fighter on September 1, 1983, near Moneron Island just west of Sakhalin island. 269 passengers and crew, including US congressman Larry McDonald, were aboard KAL 007; there were no known survivors. An official investigation concluded that the course deviation was likely caused by pilot error in configuring their air navigation system.
Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a commercial flight operated by Iran Air that flew from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai, UAE. On July 3, 1988, towards the end of the Iran-Iraq War, the aircraft flying IR655 was shot down by the U.S. Navy Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes when it fired a SM-2MR surface-to-air missile. The airplane was destroyed between Bandar Abbas and Dubai, killing all 290 passengers and crew. It was later determined that USS Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time of the attack, and IR655, an Airbus A300, was misidentified as an Iranian F-14.[23]
A number of these civil aircraft downings have been in the Malaysian and Korean area
Korean Air Lines Flight 007, also known as KAL 007 or KE007, was a Korean Air Lines Boeing 747 civilian airliner shot down by a Soviet Su-15TM fighter on September 1, 1983, near Moneron Island just west of Sakhalin island. 269 passengers and crew, including US congressman Larry McDonald, were aboard KAL 007; there were no known survivors. An official investigation concluded that the course deviation was likely caused by pilot error in configuring their air navigation system.
Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a commercial flight operated by Iran Air that flew from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai, UAE. On July 3, 1988, towards the end of the Iran-Iraq War, the aircraft flying IR655 was shot down by the U.S. Navy Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes when it fired a SM-2MR surface-to-air missile. The airplane was destroyed between Bandar Abbas and Dubai, killing all 290 passengers and crew. It was later determined that USS Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time of the attack, and IR655, an Airbus A300, was misidentified as an Iranian F-14.[23]
A number of these civil aircraft downings have been in the Malaysian and Korean area
KAL 007 biggest error was operating in the HDG mode instead on NAV mode.
The worrying thing is that in flown on this flight 5-6 years ago... Cant imagine what their families are going through.
I actually agree with WLH based on what i have read it must be a failed hijacking... It is was successful they would have given ransoms requests by now.
Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
I actually agree with WLH based on what i have read it must be a failed hijacking... It is was successful they would have given ransoms requests by now.
Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
Converted Steve said:
Unless the satellite signal was carrying position coordinates then you have limited ways of detecting location. If you can triangulate then you can make a fix, but they can't triangulate from one satellite and with no radar they are working with limited info.
If the signal had an encoded time signal against a datum then one satellite using the same datum could calculate the distance from the signal source with a reasonable degree of accuracy which gives you a parabola.
Given the shape of the earth you have an intersecting parabola giving you something close to a circle. Add in additional information and it starts to narrow down to arcs, and that seems to be what they're looking at, probably honed with additional snippets of verifiable information not in the public domain.
I hope this gets answered soon, the pressure that the families of the passengers and crew must be under is unimaginable.
aquazi said:
I flew Malaysia Airlines from Sydney to London via KL a couple of weeks ago... It could easily have been a KL - LHR flight that disappeared
I flew Malaysian Airlines quite frequently about 12 years ago and found them to be very clean and comfortable. This time I was left with the impression that it is an airline that is running out of money. Even KL airport is somewhat dilapidated compared with how it was around the millennium.