M market watch

Completely agree with everyone’s comments that the market is dead. I’ve had mine up for sale since the start of June here and since July on autotrader and eBay with very little interest. Been dropping the price repeatedly. I thought the car would be the sort of thing people were looking for. Owned it for 6 years, good service history, Vanos, bearings, valves, etc. and lots of preventative maintenance done during ownership and 59k miles but even at £13.5k no interest. I’d have been better off neglecting the works and servicing, saving £5k and just sell for £10k had I known.

However lots of cars are in the doldrums at the moment, so because of a change in life circumstances I took the opportunity and bought my dream car that I never thought I’d own - so not all bad news :D . Life is fleeting and so it seems if you want a Z4 or your next dream it’s a good time to do it.
 
Wise words!

One of the problems is that as we are all enthusiasts on this forum, we probably view our cars differently to the general public and as such our expectations are far higher. As mentioned these cars are 18yrs old - what condition is your run of the mill secondhand car in at that age, if it is even still on the road?

Another perspective maybe that whilst nobody wants to incur untimely bills, in terms of todays costs and by comparison, are the repair bills that significant? My girlies 1.4ltr 3 cylinder Cactus cost over £300 on it's last service and that was at mates rates, it didn't include the 2x new front discs and pads or the £100 specific wiper blades which put it around £5 - 500 in the end and the car is probably valued at 6-8k max. Whilst discs for the M are more expensive, I don't think the wear rate is as high nor is the usage by the owners so it is safe to say you could easily get 10 yrs from a set. Worst case scenario, you blow the engine - whilst 7k for a fitted s/h replacement isn't cheap, what would the cost of a replacement / rebuild be for the equivalent Porsche - I'd suggest probably double.

It is rare or nigh on impossible to get a return on these cars, you may if you buy and never drive a super low mileage one but then why own it. Also you wont see that return for a very long time. The often used phrase of future classic doesn't really apply, people have been saying it for years now, it's normally those selling too.

When buying an M, I'd say buy on condition and feel more than anything as poor cars that are best avoided easily stand out, so dig around and get underneath it, drive it how you would if you owned it and talk to the seller, you will be able to garner a lot from that. Finally, I wouldn't get too hung up on the running in service either, if the car has 70k on the clock it's probably safe to say it irrelevant.
 
The running in service was important when the cars had 10 - 20k miles on them and often under warranty which would be void with the wrong service interval or even missing.

That part would not bother me and investment value does not interest me what so ever. I have done my "wise" investment with the Porsche which in theory has had 50% of value added to what I paid for it new, but as I am never selling that, it is not relevant to me. The same with the Golf, which after owning it for 30 years, has finally doubled in value :lol:

But the cars I keep, I want to use them but also want them to be "right", and don't want to buy something where I straight away have to spend so much on it to get it to what I want it to be. The difference between a "cheap" M at 13, and an expensive one at 16 could just be a failing hand brake as I found out, so selling price is only a small part of the package.
 
All wise words and good discussion.

It's just interesting the value proposition and how the context changes.

An E46 M3 if we were having the same convo for a good 60k miler your looking at 28-35k. Completely changes the context as spending 3-5k on the big jobs might make sense. When a car is 10-14k it's 30-50% of its value.

Again not knocking anyone who likes to add mods to their car but a 3k carbon intake, it doesn't turn a 10k car into a 13k car, if anything it probably doesn't add a lot of value to 80% of people.

For example, this isnt even a late car it is 2003 LCI, nicest thing about it is the cinnamon and silver grey combo. Spec wise it's not the highest, but it has got CSL parts bumper, rear valance doesn't say they are genuine tbh probably not, its got an M4 BBK, vanos and bearings done and it has replica CSL wheels... 70k and £35k

Really trying hard with the marketing "the holy grail of E46 M3s! It's like stumbling upon a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow—a manual, coupe, low owners, and low mileage masterpiece that's rarer than a Bigfoot sighting"

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405049385106?sort=price-desc&advertising-location=at_cars&make=BMW&model=M3&postcode=m307hl&price-from=20000&price-to=35000&year-to=2006&fromsra

Just funny when you compare the proposition of what the Z4M is in this context.

Granted they would be more likely to see Bigfoot than sell this.
 
But the E46 M3 is so much more than a Z4M. Everything was different compared with a normal e46, the body, the seats, everything.

Compare a Z4M with any other Z and there is only the bonnet that is different on the outside and the quad exhausts. It is just not enough to make it worth a holy grail car
 
pvr said:
But the E46 M3 is so much more than a Z4M. Everything was different compared with a normal e46, the body, the seats, everything.

Compare a Z4M with any other Z and there is only the bonnet that is different on the outside and the quad exhausts. It is just not enough to make it worth a holy grail car
Click to expand...
True from a cosmetic standpoint, but under the skin you've got an entirely different (and justifiably legendary) engine, bespoke gearbox, diff and brakes, front hubs and control mount bushes, etc. The bits that matter for a driver.
 
Absolutely, I have had one and they are completely different hence will get another one.

You have to know them to appreciate them, but the lack of looks doesn’t help the price differential.
 
pvr said:
Absolutely, I have had one and they are completely different hence will get another one.

You have to know them to appreciate them, but the lack of looks doesn’t help the price differential.
Click to expand...
Fair point. Market premiums are often about style, not substance.
 
plenty said:
pvr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:58 pm
But the E46 M3 is so much more than a Z4M. Everything was different compared with a normal e46, the body, the seats, everything.

Compare a Z4M with any other Z and there is only the bonnet that is different on the outside and the quad exhausts. It is just not enough to make it worth a holy grail car
True from a cosmetic standpoint, but under the skin you've got an entirely different (and justifiably legendary) engine, bespoke gearbox, diff and brakes, front hubs and control mount bushes, etc. The bits that matter for a driver.
Click to expand...

Maybe the M3 had more bespoke parts than the Z4M, but I'm not sure how many people would spot the difference between and M3 and any other 2 door E46. The dash is much the same as any other E46, and you get the bonus risk of cracks in the boot floor!

I suppose the Z4 Coupe looks more distinctive in the first place as there are far fewer of them than Roadsters, but as soon as you start then engine you realise an M has something more special about it. :D

And don't forget the hydraulic PAS and lack of cloudy fog lights and bumper reflectors!
 
My £10k purchase a few months ago in hindsight wasn't the best timing, as there are so many coming up with lower mileage for not much more now :( Ah well, it gives me more money to spend on doing fun stuff to the car I guess!
 
30 mins to go on this no reserve auction. Should be a good barometer of where the market is.

https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listings/bmw/z4m-roadster/5e0f803d-8de4-4128-8dc6-afe9d288287e
 
To go with previous posts, I've always thought the M should have more of a distinctive look. Would make the jump more appealing I think! With the E46 for example it has the mega wide arches so looks super aggressive compared to a 330 or something. Whereas the Z4M is a lot more subtle. I actually prefer how my OEM+ 3.0si looked compared to the M, so I only bought the M for the engine really.

thecremeegg said:
My £10k purchase a few months ago in hindsight wasn't the best timing, as there are so many coming up with lower mileage for not much more now :( Ah well, it gives me more money to spend on doing fun stuff to the car I guess!
Click to expand...

10k for an M (assuming it's in decent nick) is a fantastic deal.

I'm debating if I stick it up for auction, so atleast it'll sell. Anyone got any experience or recommendations? Collecting cars any good? I've pretty much accepted I'm going to lose money on it at this point so might give it a go. No chance it'll sell for £16k for the foreseeable. I'm going to take mine back to OEM I think as well. As much as I personally like the splitter and GruppeM I know alot of people like them to be totally stock
 
depends how you look at it, all M cars used to be subtle like the end of the 90s and early 2000s era is so well done and considered imo.

Look at the current crop they are so much more asbo and it doesn’t do it for me at all. Especially now they have introduced the MLite so they can increase the M into a tier above.

What I like about the Z4M is that it’s so subtle but look closely and there are so many nice subtle elements that really add up to a sophisticated sports car.
 
tomscott said:
depends how you look at it, all M cars used to be subtle like the end of the 90s and early 2000s era is so well done and considered imo.

Look at the current crop they are so much more asbo and it doesn’t do it for me at all. Especially now they have introduced the MLite so they can increase the M into a tier above.

What I like about the Z4M is that it’s so subtle but look closely and there are so many nice subtle elements that really add up to a sophisticated sports car.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point, and I too always liked the "if you know, you know" aspect when it came to M's before the lime green asbo rubbish we have nowadays. I think eventually once clean affordable E46 M3's become like unicorns, people will want the Z4M
 
Gee said:
30 mins to go on this no reserve auction. Should be a good barometer of where the market is.

https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listings/bmw/z4m-roadster/5e0f803d-8de4-4128-8dc6-afe9d288287e
Click to expand...

A guide price of £14,000-16000 and it went for £10,001.

£10,841 once the buyer's fee is added.
 
Beerman said:
Gee said:
30 mins to go on this no reserve auction. Should be a good barometer of where the market is.

https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listings/bmw/z4m-roadster/5e0f803d-8de4-4128-8dc6-afe9d288287e
Click to expand...

A guide price of £14,000-16000 and it went for £10,001.

£10,841 once the buyer's fee is added.
Click to expand...

yikes
 
I have to say and this might just be me, non of these auction sites seem to be hitting close to asks anyway.

It might be my generation but auctions are places I would go to buy stuff cheap not necessarily the best, Ebay generation I suppose rather than antique auction. They also aren't well advertised and there are so many of these sites. Honestly I forget to look.

I mainly crawl auto trader and piston heads but maybe now they are so old more specific places are better like car and classic.

I don't think I would have allowed that to go at that price and tucked it away. That being said it's not the best example but not much would make it a nice car. The corrosion on bits and pieces is maybe not a great sign like the tops of the strut towers etc needs a wheel refurb, the paint looks like it hasn't ever seen a mop and its chipped everywhere with lacquer peel.

Again its the same thing I was talking about yesterday, a front end respray, front disks and pads, wheel refurb, suspension upgrade and maybe sorting the bearings for piece of mind will be 5-6k so at 10k maybe this is probably about right. Again whether its worth spending the money, I would buy it and enjoy it if id landed it at 10k and worry about it later down the line.

Funny I was telling people at ZEDfest 8-9k is where I thought mine is but maybe its even less, it's very depressing! Thankfully im not wanting to move it on.

If you're buying it's a great time. I paid 14.5k for mine with 63k 5 years ago and that was about 1.5-2k less than market average at the time.
 
At this time, I would look at 12.5 - 13 k for a 50k miles car. The one from auction with 70k at 11k sounds about right then.
 
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