M market watch

Hi all,

I'm selling my Z4M Roadster now. Here's the listing on the forum. £16,750 with the original wheels, exhaust & airbox + the aftermarket bits too.
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=146509
 
Just renewed mine and I do monthly for 6 to months usually. The added interest for monthly makes it over £770 a year. On the rfl subject, the complete nonsense of policy is highlighted when comparing with the other nonsense ULEZ. Z4M highest tax bracket but ulez compliant. So is it high polluting or not? If I can drive it in London then stop taking the piss on the rfl. Then there are plenty of small diesel hatchbacks that are euro 5 so not ULEZ compliant but £0 RFL. Utter nonsense.
They should simply flat rate all cars from 2001 onwards for RFL, including the heavy EVs who cause as much wear and tear of our roads as anything else. Anything prior to 2001 free as anything that old is likely either dead or now a low usage classic. Implement in 2026 as the new classic car tax policy, reduced from existing 40 year old to 25.. Then the issue of usage based on emissions is covered already by the tax applied to combustion engine fuel. So if you then choose to do high miles in a thirsty car then you're already paying for the privilege. Nice and simple to administer and understand... So that will never work.
 
I looked at this before. The RFL bands were set according to CO2 emissions.

ULEZ is supposed to improve air quality so what is or isn't is compliant is determined by NOx emissions because someone has finally realised they are far more harmful. :headbang:

So although I have to pay top band RFL for my MC, at least I don't have to pay to visit my sister who lives in a London Borough.
 
I agree! This whole ULEZ, banding cars into higher tax bands etc. is all just one massive scam!

But, it’s not only in the UK. Germany is even more laughable. I spend about half my time in Hannover, Germany now. About a year ago, they tried to fine me €85 for not displaying an emissions compliance ‘green badge’ on my BRITISH registered car….which was fully UK compliant with an MOT etc.

They tried to argue that it didn’t matter and that even as a visitor, I still needed to comply with their TÜV regulations. I, of course, said this was bullshit….and would they like to also fine me for having my steering wheel on the ‘wrong’ side?

Anyway, I acquiesced to paying 6€ for said sticker.

My point however is, they have now said that the “air in the city is sufficiently clean that they don’t need to put emissions restrictions on cars anymore” and have done away with the green stickers! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
R60BBA said:
https://www.classicheroes.co.uk/bmw-e86-z4-m-coupe
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Damm Interlagos blue never looked so good. With the genuine CSL wheels all it would of needed would of been a lighter colour seat and I'd of been tempted.
 
Simon, anyone in the market for a Z4MC could do far, far worse than have a look at your stunning Interlagos coupe, plus no ‘amstrad’ sat-nav has to be a bonus too!
 
LawrenceW said:
Simon, anyone in the market for a Z4MC could do far, far worse than have a look at your stunning Interlagos coupe, plus no ‘amstrad’ sat-nav has to be a bonus too!
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Thank you for the kind words Lawrence 😉
 
This appeared on Autotrader today:- https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408172996537?sort=datedesc&make=BMW&model=Z4%20M&page=1&postcode=gu470za&radi

Admittedly it's leggy and there are no photos yet, but it's the cheapest Z4MR I've seen for some time which surprised me as it's being sold by a trader. Sadly that seems to be an indication of where the market is now. :(
 
Mr Tidy said:
This appeared on Autotrader today:- https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408172996537?sort=datedesc&make=BMW&model=Z4%20M&page=1&postcode=gu470za&radi

Admittedly it's leggy and there are no photos yet, but it's the cheapest Z4MR I've seen for some time which surprised me as it's being sold by a trader. Sadly that seems to be an indication of where the market is now. :(
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It will be the same old story though Mr Tidy with anyone interested, the first thing they will want to do is the rod bearings and vanos if not already done. That instantly puts (what the British refer to as a high mileage car) it at a 12.5/13K car and with the market as it is, not a particularly great prospect, especially when there are the two Interlagos MRs at sub 70k that will sell for mid 11's in reality.
 
Ye the market is in a sad state of repair, unless your buying.

IMO Cars that are already cheap at 12-14k for a very rare unique sports car, with all this incessant additional needs that honestly with so many people changing bearings the difference between a car that's done 120k and 80k they look the same. See the same thing time and time again in these "Ive had my bearings done and dodged a bullet" and honestly ive seen 10x worse and people that have no idea what their talking about complimenting "Yes, yes they look awful don't they". It's either you spend the money and get no money back or knock 2k off the price so a 70-80k MR is then worth sub 10k.

The whole situation is bonkers imo.

Ive been on here 13 years and seen 4 M cars that have had "engine failure". 3 were heavily tracked and spun a bearing and one overheated after the cooling system hadn't been put together properly after some work.

I got so many comments at ZEDFest this weekend of how wonderful my car is and people would love and aspire to own one and when I told them what I think its worth most were in complete disbelieve. It even won car of the show, bonkers. To me reality is a different thing entirely.

Hopefully this isnt a sign of the future as the cars are worth more in parts than they are complete, meaning more cars will come off the road or end up in countries where they are 2-3x more expensive for the same milages.
 
tomscott said:
Ye the market is in a sad state of repair, unless your buying.

IMO Cars that are already cheap at 12-14k for a very rare unique sports car, with all this incessant additional needs that honestly with so many people changing bearings the difference between a car that's done 120k and 80k they look the same. See the same thing time and time again in these "Ive had my bearings done and dodged a bullet" and honestly ive seen 10x worse and people that have no idea what their talking about complimenting "Yes, yes they look awful don't they". It's either you spend the money and get no money back or knock 2k off the price so a 70-80k MR is then worth sub 10k.

The whole situation is bonkers imo.

Ive been on here 13 years and seen 4 M cars that have had "engine failure". 3 were heavily tracked and spun a bearing and one overheated after the cooling system hadn't been put together properly after some work.

I got so many comments at ZEDFest this weekend of how wonderful my car is and people would love and aspire to own one and when I told them what I think its worth most were in complete disbelieve. It even won car of the show, bonkers. To me reality is a different thing entirely.

Hopefully this isnt a sign of the future as the cars are worth more in parts than they are complete, meaning more cars will come off the road or end up in countries where they are 2-3x more expensive for the same mileages.
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As we discussed yesterday Tom, the rod bearing "issue" isn't necessarily an issue and a ticking timebomb on every M - it has been mentioned before that there are a lot of E46 M3's with in excess of 150K still on the road that haven't had them replaced, I'd argue that a lot of non enthusiast owners - especially of the Z4M - aren't even aware of it. I do concede that it is good thing to do for peace of mind but if you warm the car up and drive accordingly before thrashing it along with regular oil changes, it should be ok. If you are stupid enough to push a car hard from cold then you deserve all you get!

Again, do most of us know what the acceptable wear limit is on the bearings before they are likely to fail? Lets face it, all those making money by changing them are always going to say "you are so lucky to have caught them just in time" seems to me we have a knack of catching them just before they are going to spin - amazing!

Unfortunately your final comment about being worth more in parts is looking more likely as is them going overseas - my Imola Roadster has because gone to Germany as it is still cheaper to buy it and convert to LHD than buy one on the continent, also they aren't so hung up on mileage either. This was a car that was also the lower tax bracket, an apparent plus point for the car that didn't help it sell.

The market has tanked and really is in nomansland at the moment unless you are a buyer as you say - unfortunately I cannot see it recovering to previous levels anytime soon if at all.
 
Mine is for sale at the moment, on here and elsewhere. I bought it for £16k in April. Z4MR in Black with 49k miles. Has all the ticks next to it in terms of interior, exterior and service history. Not had rod bearings done but it's pretty low mileage so I think it'll be fine for now, and has had some vanos maintenance done.

I've just dropped the price down to £14k which seems an absolute steal to me, as the market as very quiet at the moment. Was hoping to sell it for what I bought it for as that seemed a fair price, however the ones with a similar mileage and price just aren't selling. They've been on sale before I bought mine and was researching. So about a year. So something had to give if I wanted to sell it. It's definitely a buyers market!

I do think the values will eventually go up but we're definitely in a downturn at the moment. Around 2 years ago when I was considering an M, my budget was around 12 to 13k and that got you like a 100,000 mile one with iffy history, so I didn't get one. A clean 50k one like mine was about 17/18k.

The market for 2.5's and 3.0's seems a lot more healthy than it does for the M's. People are happy to fork out 12k for a clean 3.0si coupe or whatever but 14k for an M roadster is tumbleweed at the moment. But I suppose it only takes one person to really be interested.
 
It is crazy that its not moving at 14k at this time of year.

I think the other element is the tax costs and maintenance but its all about buying in the right window to ensure costs are low in the next 2 years and from a tax perspective mines on a rolling monthly and is soon for half the year so suppose it depends how the buyer looks at it.
 
Definitely. I always look at the car too. If you want a newer car with similar NA performance you'll be looking at 2-3 times the price and GT level Porsches. So with the money saved, paying a bit more for road tax and some preventative maintenance if need be seems a great deal to me.
 
During the next two years, I will be looking to get an M again or Alpina, but the right one has to come along - in my case, meaning it has to have been a garaged car, not from near any sea and not from Scotland unless proven to be not rusty. It also has to have the SatNav system as I will be transferring the Carplay system I have just bought and I really don't fancy retrofitting one again.

The current 3.0si has been a good learning curve as that is the first second hand car I have bought in 30 years and I have seen that getting it up to scratch means spending a huge amount on it, meaning I might as well have bought a much more expensive car but in a better condition (and garaged ...). I will do the same with an M / Alpina where it has to haev perfect paint, low miles (i.e. about 60k tops) and has to have the right spec (with satnav screen).

I will jump on it when the right one comes along, no matter whether that is next week or in 2 years time.
 
Expectations and reality. What's up to scratch? A show car that is flawless or a driver? Once it's "perfect" it sits in that strange place of not wanting to use it because it will get tarnished. The lure of cheap cars too, get what you pay for I suppose.

They are 15-18 year old cars now and finding one that is going to be perfect unless it's been in a collection and they haven't really got that status is rare. The Scotland thing too, maybe you just got a bad one but the UKs weather system isnt really all that different. Mines been a northern car its whole life living in Liverpool for the first 10 years on the coast then on Northumbrian coast for 3 years now in Manchester for 5 spending a lot of time in Cumbria. It should look like its been under the sea, it has some light surface rust on a couple of components but for 18 years old and 80k it is impressive how good the condition is but I wouldn't expect it to be perfect as its nearly 20 years old. That's a credit to its previous owners keeping it clean.

Ive come to the realisation that chasing perfection is a fools errand, you pay for it and it won't return the cost especially on these cars unless the owner is completely fastidious but the value of them doesn't always make financial sense, cheap cars end up with owners that don't always have the funds to keep it nice. Finding one with good service history is a challenge these days I looked at so many when I was looking for another and that was 5 years ago. Mine also came from well known members and ive spent more than I care to admit :rofl: so the rhetoric doesn't always work and its not to say it wasnt looked after, its just part and parcel of old NA car ownership.

Look after it and also enjoy it.
 
Even though it might not be perfection, I would want it to be close enough and would not mind spending a bit on a front end refresh or so paintwise. I have seen plenty of Zs that are to the level that I want. As the cars are from that age, the importance of garaging is even more than ever.

The value is not that relevant as they are not high value cars, so would use it as I like.

Chasing perfection - hence saying that I will only look at one when it is ticking all the boxes I have, no matter when it comes around.
 
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