Independence Day

AlfaScozzesi said:
craig3.2 said:
Mr Tidy said:
I like David Cameron, and was quite pleased when he won the Conservative leadership contest.

He took a huge gamble with this referendum, and from what I can make out the EU sh*fted him as the concessions they offered were pretty much worthless! Which pretty much sums up the EU, and to a degree most politicians; totally out of touch with the typical voter, but of course the EU gravy train runs on irrespective because it is pretty much unaccountable to anyone - can't even get the accounts signed off!

But at least we won't be paying for it any more thankfully! Which may be why the Dutch and Swedes are a bit rattled - someone will have to fill that financial hole!

Shame Cameron felt he had to resign, but in a way I have more respect for him doing that as it at least suggests he has some principles!

Corbyn hasn't resigned, but may have to soon! Shame really as with him as leader Labour pretty much guaranteed they were unelectable!

I can't see a long-term trade problem - we buy more from the EU than we sell to them so what would they gain from any restrictions?

And at least we now get to decide who we let in to the country!

Looking forward to another Scottish Independence referendum - hopefully they'll leave the UK and get paid for by the EU instead of the rest of the UK!

If they don't have one then maybe the silent majority (the English) should have a referendum on Scottish independence, and get rid! (Sorry Bing, you may need a passport just South of Gretna)! (And before I get too much grief, my father was born near Inverness)!

Glad the turn-out was so high, and that the electorate finally had the opportunity to express their opinion in a clear fashion - interesting times for sure!

Mr Tidy,i was just reading this,and thinking to myself,yes, I agree with that thought......
Cameron has the right idea on wanting to cut benefits for those who are dependent on them,i.e maybe 3rd or 4th generation unemployed,or never worked a day in their adult life
While Sturgeon wants to tax us Scots more,to pay for More benefits for those who have no intention of ever working(and by that,i don't mean every one on benefits,just lazy ones who don't want to work).
She also wants Scotland to welcome more immigrants......
Yet most felow Scottish people I talk to want the same as the rest of the UK,in Less immigrants coming here,as they are getting fed up with the current situation!
......then you had to have a go and say "get rid".
Well most sensible Scots wanted to stay part of the UK,for reasons previously mentioned, because letting the SNP run us Independently would mean more tax,more immigrants,etc etc.
Oh,and Scotland have more spent on them per head,re health,etc than the rest of the UK,but we also have paid in Large revenues to Westminster coffers from years of Oil industry boom time(now on it's backside), because the UK government spent that money elsewhere,rather than doing the sensible thing,like Scandinavian countries,and put away money for a rainy day,for the Oil industry,for times such as now!!

Anyway,I think we should Leave the EU,as we managed for years without being ruled by them,and we will still be in the common market,which, in itself means we will still have to take in Migrant workers.....but hopefully we can set our own legislation on a cap on numbers,and let our fishermen fish our own Waters,and not the Spanish,etc :fuelfire:

Anyway,this will drag on for a while,no doubt...a bit like this post,lol :rofl:
Hopefully it will all come good in the end....a Strong United Kingdom,not ruled/dictated to by Merkel and Brussels....and (despite being very Patriotic),a United Kingdom,where Scotland isn't run by a party (that I used to vote for),who let unlimited migrants in,and tax us more for the privilege.


I agree with a lot of what you say there Craig with a few changes. My business for one has benefitted from migrant workers who want to work rather than sit on their arse.

Most welfare is paid out to home grown folk who think the world owes them and are incapable of working for any extended period without going off the rails in my experience.

I also think we will end up independent but along the same path that England has taken us out of the EU by rehtoric rather than reason!

Alfascosezi,i know alot of business' benefit from migrant workers,but that's because they pay them Less wages/lower hourly rates.
One of my wife's ex uni pals used to work every summer in Strawberry picking,as extra income .....and until about 5years ago,there were only one or two migrants working there.....now she is the only Scot!!
So I don't buy into the fact that businesses need migrants,or that they do jobs that UK workers don't want.While this can be the case,it is not entirely so.Just an easy way for companies to make more money for the fatcats....look at Oil companies using the return in oil prices as an excuse to make hundreds unemployed.....while they still make Billions in profit,as a company!! Makes me sick.

Plus,in my job,i see Alot of migrants,in paid for Council houses/rented property,claiming benefits,while having large screen TVs in every room,and them and their wife's,kids all getting free NHS and dental care... which is costing millions and crippling the NHS.

So personally think we need less migrants in Scotland and the UK as a whole,not more.....we are only a wee island after all,relativeoy speaking.(we don't have the land mass of USA or Australia,lol).

Anyway,just my opinion mate :rofl: :thumbsup:

P.S, there are now also alot of Electrical contractors employing Eastern Europeans at £10/hour or less(way below the proper rate of £15),and that causes alot of hassle...the quality of work they are doing,in the main,leaves alot to be desired .
 
craig3.2 said:
AlfaScozzesi said:
craig3.2 said:
Mr Tidy,i was just reading this,and thinking to myself,yes, I agree with that thought......
Cameron has the right idea on wanting to cut benefits for those who are dependent on them,i.e maybe 3rd or 4th generation unemployed,or never worked a day in their adult life
While Sturgeon wants to tax us Scots more,to pay for More benefits for those who have no intention of ever working(and by that,i don't mean every one on benefits,just lazy ones who don't want to work).
She also wants Scotland to welcome more immigrants......
Yet most felow Scottish people I talk to want the same as the rest of the UK,in Less immigrants coming here,as they are getting fed up with the current situation!
......then you had to have a go and say "get rid".
Well most sensible Scots wanted to stay part of the UK,for reasons previously mentioned, because letting the SNP run us Independently would mean more tax,more immigrants,etc etc.
Oh,and Scotland have more spent on them per head,re health,etc than the rest of the UK,but we also have paid in Large revenues to Westminster coffers from years of Oil industry boom time(now on it's backside), because the UK government spent that money elsewhere,rather than doing the sensible thing,like Scandinavian countries,and put away money for a rainy day,for the Oil industry,for times such as now!!

Anyway,I think we should Leave the EU,as we managed for years without being ruled by them,and we will still be in the common market,which, in itself means we will still have to take in Migrant workers.....but hopefully we can set our own legislation on a cap on numbers,and let our fishermen fish our own Waters,and not the Spanish,etc :fuelfire:

Anyway,this will drag on for a while,no doubt...a bit like this post,lol :rofl:
Hopefully it will all come good in the end....a Strong United Kingdom,not ruled/dictated to by Merkel and Brussels....and (despite being very Patriotic),a United Kingdom,where Scotland isn't run by a party (that I used to vote for),who let unlimited migrants in,and tax us more for the privilege.


I agree with a lot of what you say there Craig with a few changes. My business for one has benefitted from migrant workers who want to work rather than sit on their arse.

Most welfare is paid out to home grown folk who think the world owes them and are incapable of working for any extended period without going off the rails in my experience.

I also think we will end up independent but along the same path that England has taken us out of the EU by rehtoric rather than reason!

Alfascosezi,i know alot of business' benefit from migrant workers,but that's because they pay them Less wages/lower hourly rates.
One of my wife's ex uni pals used to work every summer in Strawberry picking,as extra income .....and until about 5years ago,there were only one or two migrants working there.....now she is the only Scot!!
So I don't buy into the fact that businesses need migrants,or that they do jobs that UK workers don't want.While this can be the case,it is not entirely so.Just an easy way for companies to make more money for the fatcats....look at Oil companies using the return in oil prices as an excuse to make hundreds unemployed.....while they still make Billions in profit,as a company!! Makes me sick.

Plus,in my job,i see Alot of migrants,in paid for Council houses/rented property,claiming benefits,while having large screen TVs in every room,and them and their wife's,kids all getting free NHS and dental care... which is costing millions and crippling the NHS.

So personally think we need less migrants in Scotland and the UK as a whole,not more.....we are only a wee island after all,relativeoy speaking.(we don't have the land mass of USA or Australia,lol).

Anyway,just my opinion mate :rofl: :thumbsup:

P.S, there are now also alot of Electrical contractors employing Eastern Europeans at £10/hour or less(way below the proper rate of £15),and that causes alot of hassle...the quality of work they are doing,in the main,leaves alot to be desired .


Essentially we all want the same thing but I differ with a few points you made. In my experience within my locality the migrant is a "worker" who puts more into the local economy than takes out. This has also been confirmed by the office of national statistics nationally.

The pay rates we pay are above national minimum pay for an unskilled job and delivers a decent wage every week but due to the cold and the fact it is fish some people prefer to sit at home on benifits. I think you will find a lot of people do t want any seasonal work due to the "hassle" of getting their benifits sorted again when the seasonal job is finished.

Can't blame a business for laying off when capacity is being reduced. It is a not an "excuse" but a nessecity. I will have to look where savings can be made myself if my business turnover drops which I hope it won't!

As regards the standard of electrical work I have no clue but believe that is up to us to manage the standard of our employees work. If not acceptable then this needs to be identified in whatever probationary period is allowed.

Having had a couple of days to think on it all I am a bit more relaxed about it and think / hope the EU reforms itself and in the process keeps us in the common market (which I think we will agree to) in exchange for free movement of people but without governance. What this will cost without Maggies rebate who knows!

The SNP will try and get another referendum dependant on what the polls say in the coming months as they cannot afford to lose again.

The rest of us will just get on with it and do the best we can. :thumbsup:
 
Grumpyowl said:
markeg said:
original guvnor said:
Some thoughts on the referendum.

1. The vast majority of England (and Wales) voted decisively for Leave. Just about the only places that didn't were London and a few other isolated places like Bristol, Cambridge, and Oxford. Every single Government Region in England & Wales voted to Leave, except London. Now I'm in the fortunate position that I spend a lot of time in London, travelling all over the city, including its most far flung corners. I know it very well for a provincial. I know it's consumers very well because I get paid to know where they live, where they work, how they like to spend their leisure time, where they shop, what they want, before they do. They aren't going to like this, but they are totally out of touch - London is a global city, attracts government investment in spades, has full employment and is a magnet for impoverished youth from the rest of the EU who can't find work at home because the EU has fucked their economies up. There is no downside to the EU for the average metropolitan professional in London so it isn't surprising they voted to Remain. But you need to pull your heads out of your arses and travel outside the London bubble a bit more to some of the other regions in the U.K. to understand why your compatriots voted so differently to you. The U.K. economy is massively imbalanced towards London. Government policy has consistently encouraged it with massive infrastructure projects that allow more and more people to be ferried in to the capital. Sucking more life out of the rest of the U.K. It's time we rebalanced the economy a little and allowed the rest of the U.K. to share some of the economic growth you've taken for granted. It's time you saw first hand why people feel short-changed by the EU. Last time I checked, London accounted for about 14% of the U.K. population and between 20-25% of GDP. So, even with the imbalance, 75% of the wealth of this country isn't created in London and 86% of the population don't live there.
2. If I hear one more word about "how my kids future has been ruined"....what a load of crap. You should screen shot your status and relook at it in 10 years and you'll flagellate yourself for being so pathetic. This is a global economy now not a European one. Our trade with the EU has been in steady decline for years and will continue that way. The majority of the countries in the EU have stagnant economies with low/no growth and yet you want to bind yourself to them like someone refusing to jump off a sinking ship into a lifeboat? It's only been 24 hours and yet countries are already queuing up to talk about bilateral trade agreements with us and Germany is openly talking about granting us "associate partnership" status with all 27 EU nations.
3. Second referendums - Come on, do me a favour. Just accept the result and get on with life. I've never voted for a Labour government yet but I've not demanded a new election when they are elected to govern me with less than 40% of the votes cast and as low as 30% of the votes from the eligible electorate. This is a democracy and we've voted out. There will not be a second referendum. You had a chance to make the case and you lost in a fair contest.
4. The age question - it's true young people voted in and the over 40's voted out. Is that a big surprise? I'm trying not to sound patronising but when you've had longer to experience the full range of 'benefits' of being in the EU you'll probably join the ranks of the Brexiteers. It's no coincidence that those with the most experience of the EU are consistently the strongest advocates to leave it. If the young were really that bothered then more than 36% of them would've got off their arse and exercised their democratic right. No vote no right to comment.
5. There has been a lot of name-calling. Leave voters have been castigated as xenophobes, racists, and God-knows-what- else's. Over 17m people voted out. They will all have their reasons for doing so. Every English region remember voted out (apart from London). Areas of wealth AND poverty voted out. Voters from across the political spectrum voted out. For many, like me, it will be nothing to do with immigration so quit claiming you know why we voted as we did.
6. The biggest shame is that now we have voted out, the EU member nations are openly talking about how they need to radically reform the EU. It's a pity that was never on the table before but it's typical of the institution. It's dying, in 10 years it may not even exist at all. It's biggest issue is, that it's central aim of being a European Superstate, is something only its Executive want. None of the member states want that. Yet none have the power to stop the bus without getting off.
7. Isolationist - The U.K., far from being isolationist, is actually doing what it's always done - leading Europe - towards a new way of trading together, defending one another, helping one another and reaching out to the whole world, not hiding away in our European club. We are, and always will be, a major European player, regardless of whether we are in or out the EU. We are also renowned for being the greatest travellers and explorers in the world. That won't change, we'll just look beyond Brussels and Frankfurt for a change.

Great post, OG. Couldn't agree more :thumbsup:

Agree :thumbsup:

Also Agree. :thumbsup: Life was never meant to be easy. I'm done reading people's comments. Move on.
 
dans6490 said:
My last take on this:

I know lots of people that voted leave, from different walks of life and for different reasons.

I haven't heard ONE bigoted comment from any of them. Not one.....

From the remain side however, there has been explicit ageist bile, contempt for the uneducated, talk of sewers bursting and lizards voting, fantasies about an independent state that excludes the rough, foreign, backwards, "racist" council estates and arguments for limiting old people's right to vote on the basis they lack the IQ or social nous necessary for making big decisions.

If the leaders of remain want to see BIGOTRY, they should take a look in the mirror. Their "anti-bigotry" is the only bigotry blighting this country right now.

https://www.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/media_set?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3

You'll find vile comments from both sides, thanks to the likes of Facebook etc.
 
Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

I'm beginning to think that she really is a bit of a fruit loop....
 
PerryGunn said:
Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

I'm beginning to think that she really is a bit of a fruit loop....

Only just beginning to think Perry ?? :wink:
 
Sturgeon looked very awkward this morning when Andrew Marr asked her if she'd actually spoken to anyone in the EU since the referendum. Squirming, she said she hadn't!!
 
PerryGunn said:
Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

I'm beginning to think that she really is a bit of a fruit loop....

Well I can where's she's coming as Scotland voted to stay in, she's just protecting Scotland's interests.

Tim.
 
TitanTim said:
PerryGunn said:
Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

I'm beginning to think that she really is a bit of a fruit loop....

Well I can where's she's coming as Scotland voted to stay in, she's just protecting Scotland's interests.

Tim.

Scotland didn't vote to stay in, none of the 4 countries or for that matter London had a separate vote.
it was a United Kingdom referendum.
The United Kingdom democratically voted to leave.
 
mr wilks said:
Re Cameron
I think he's done wonders for a country heading for bankruptcy when he took over
If he resigns today or even in coming weeks that won't be of any benefit to the country imo


Plus 1. I would like the party to get behind him and get him to stay, but there are some big egos who will fancy being top dog. We shall see, bumpy few years ahead, but the workers of this great country will see us through.
 
image_zpsfsjwq55z.jpeg
 
Just remember that Mr Cameron said he would stand down in the next term if the Tories won the election, so he's only doing what he said he wanted to do.
 
firebobby said:
Just remember that Mr Cameron said he would stand down in the next term if the Tories won the election, so he's only doing what he said he wanted to do.

Indeed.

He has, at least, given them some time to identify his successor. Few political leaders get to choose when they go which is likely to be something Mr Corbyn won't experience.
 
Grumpyowl said:
Scotland didn't vote to stay in, none of the 4 countries or for that matter London had a separate vote.
it was a United Kingdom referendum.
The United Kingdom democratically voted to leave.

Exactly .She lost her independence referendum and as such Scotland right or wrong is therefore still within the United Kingdom who held a democratic referendum and decided to leave the EU , so Nicola suck it up and lets get on with the important issues.
 
ronk said:
He will of course get the huge "golden goodbye " and pension.

He'll also join Blair and soon to be Obama on the millionaires talk circuit.

If he'd kept a diplomatic silence while the people decided he'd have been able to see through the country's wishes.
 
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