Everybody says 19" are uncomfortable

[tomscott]

I’ve had OEM CSLs on my Ms pretty much the whole time, with 235 35 and 265 30s. I put the 224s on in winter.

I notice very little difference. My first M was lowered and now my current M on OEM sus again doesn’t seem to make any difference. Maybe just me.

I don’t really like 224s and personally think CSLs are the best looking OEM wheel you can get for these cars. I know a lot think CSLs are overplayed but in my ownership I’ve only ever seen another Z with real CSLs at a meet or car show.

BMW Z4M Coupe CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Coupe with CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Roadster CSL Wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

 

[BTZ461]

I’ve had OEM CSLs on my Ms pretty much the whole time, with 235 35 and 265 30s. I put the 224s on in winter.

I notice very little difference. My first M was lowered and now my current M on OEM sus again doesn’t seem to make any difference. Maybe just me.

I don’t really like 224s and personally think CSLs are the best looking OEM wheel you can get for these cars. I know a lot think CSLs are overplayed but in my ownership I’ve only ever seen another Z with real CSLs at a meet or car show.

BMW Z4M Coupe CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Coupe with CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Roadster CSL Wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, the BBS/CSL rim must be one of the most replicated styles around. Personal opinion, the 19 inch wheels are overlarge on our cars and the 18 inchers hit the spot visually. And the 35 /30 profiles most are fitting to the 19 inch rims to me looks more than a little under-tyred (if there is such a word)
We run two sets of wheels on our coupes, 18x8.5 ET35 and 18x9.5 ET35 (front and rear paced 10mm) Apex EC7 shod with standard 225/40 and 255/35 combo, perfect fitment and 18x9 ET42 (spaced 17.5mm) and 18x10 ET25 Apex Arc8's, again perfect fitment with no rubbing. The Apex wheels a quite a lot lighter than almost all other wheels produced, excepting perhaps the BBS RG-R series and certainly fitting these has helped tranform the handling of the car.
I am unsure where the comment that the 3.0 Si coupes are over tyred came from and quite disagree.

 

[tomscott]

It’s all personal preference.

I disagree from a visual point of view. The 19s make the car look far more aggressive imo and I think the M should have shipped with 19”s.

What you see on a forum vs what you see in real life are two different things. There were only about 1100 Ms registered in the UK. Even seeing one on the road is pretty rare. Seeing an M with real CSLs again even less common.

 

[john-e89]

No they don’t OP....I switched from the OEM 18” 224’s on the M to OEM 19” CSL’s and I prefer the 19’s, immediately noticed the car felt a little flatter, more stable, and a better ride, this after a full Hunter alignment and the 224’s wearing 6+mm of MPSS rubber. The only reason I’d go back to 18’s would be to sell the car.

 

[z4pilot]

I am unsure where the comment that the 3.0 Si coupes are over tyred came from and quite disagree.

In the sense that the 3.0si and the M both run 255 section rear tyres and yet the M rear wheels are half an inch wider and the M runs with 80ish more bhp, then unless the M is under-tyred, you could argue that the 3.0si is over-tyred. I think (although I may be wrong) that the 3.0si was also available with 17inch wheels and the 18s were a visual upgrade rather than a necessity.

 

[BTZ461]

I am unsure where the comment that the 3.0 Si coupes are over tyred came from and quite disagree.

In the sense that the 3.0si and the M both run 255 section rear tyres and yet the M rear wheels are half an inch wider and the M runs with 80ish more bhp, then unless the M is under-tyred, you could argue that the 3.0si is over-tyred. I think (although I may be wrong) that the 3.0si was also available with 17inch wheels and the 18s were a visual upgrade rather than a necessity.

Semantics......... :wink:

 

[Bufort]

Not sure why someone would ask a question and then try and prove everyone who offered advice wrong? I'm very happy with my choice of wheels and tyres - hope you will be with yours. Good luck.

No, I never asked whether a wider tyre gives a bigger contact area, somebody else did, thank you very much. I wasn't even trying to prove you wrong; I told you what I thought and asked you to elaborate on your answer, but you still haven't. My question was whether a 19" wheel with the same profile tyre I have on my 18's will fit. I never mentioned grip or contact area.

 

[Bufort]

Spot on, and to state the obvious ‘everybody says 19’’ are uncomfortable’ is blatantly not true... many on here more than happy on 19’s with the right tires!

Not "spot on" as I didn't even ask the question, somebody else did. And my title was based on the people I had spoken to; I'm sorry if it wasn't 100% technically accurate, for a forum thread title.

 

[mr wilks]

I am unsure where the comment that the 3.0 Si coupes are over tyred came from and quite disagree.

In the sense that the 3.0si and the M both run 255 section rear tyres and yet the M rear wheels are half an inch wider and the M runs with 80ish more bhp, then unless the M is under-tyred, you could argue that the 3.0si is over-tyred. I think (although I may be wrong) that the 3.0si was also available with 17inch wheels and the 18s were a visual upgrade rather than a necessity.

Semantics......... :wink:

Or Bmw simply got their numbers & tyre choice ( runflat) wrong which they clearly did as many current models now run bigger profile rubber on similar wheel sizes where Mercedes /Vag models always had done
In hindsight it would be hard not to think that a Si or Se Z4 with 18inch 8.5 rears should have had 245 40 18 tyres if the M cars on 9j got 255 40 18 & all the fronts with 18inch 8j should have been 225 45 or possibly the non Ms 215 45 :?

 

[True-Blue]

Spot on, and to state the obvious ‘everybody says 19’’ are uncomfortable’ is blatantly not true... many on here more than happy on 19’s with the right tires!

Not "spot on" as I didn't even ask the question, somebody else did. And my title was based on the people I had spoken to; I'm sorry if it wasn't 100% technically accurate, for a forum thread title.

Who titled the thread?

Frankly couldn’t care less what you run on your car, as you seem to want to disagree with numerous people on here who are very happy with the comfort on 19’s with a reduced tyre profile compared to 18’s.... which is completely at odds with your thread title.

 

[z4pilot]

Not sure why someone would ask a question and then try and prove everyone who offered advice wrong? I'm very happy with my choice of wheels and tyres - hope you will be with yours. Good luck.

No, I never asked whether a wider tyre gives a bigger contact area, somebody else did, thank you very much. I wasn't even trying to prove you wrong; I told you what I thought and asked you to elaborate on your answer, but you still haven't. My question was whether a 19" wheel with the same profile tyre I have on my 18's will fit. I never mentioned grip or contact area.

At this point, I prefer to take Mark Twain's advice...

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

 

[Bufort]

Who titled the thread?

Frankly couldn’t care less what you run on your car, as you seem to want to disagree with numerous people on here who are very happy with the comfort on 19’s with a reduced tyre profile compared to 18’s.... which is completely at odds with your thread title.

Jesus Christ. Did you read the entire thread? - I asked about 19" vs 18" tyre comfort. Where did I disagree with anyone on comfort of 19's? Nowhere. The title was based on my findings before this thread, obviously, and now I've found out otherwise; isn't that the entire point of a forum? In fact, I thanked people for their help and decided to go with 19's. Please show me where I disagreed and told someone they were wrong about the comfort of their tyres.

This 'argument' you're referring to now is about tyre grip and contact patches - which is not a question that I even asked, and not the title of this thread. I just offered what I thought about the tyre grip question, and was told I'm wrong, and now I'm asking for you or anyone else to explain why it's wrong, and nobody is!

This:

I know that a contact patch is an area defined by two dimensions, I was just simplifying it, but if I must: 255x150=38,250mm2 & 185x150=27,750mm2. So all other factors being the same, there will be a smaller contact patch. If I'm wrong, why don't you just explain why?

Not sure why someone would ask a question and then try and prove everyone who offered advice wrong? I'm very happy with my choice of wheels and tyres - hope you will be with yours. Good luck.

Spot on, and to state the obvious ‘everybody says 19’’ are uncomfortable’ is blatantly not true... many on here more than happy on 19’s with the right tires!

... has nothing to do with the question I asked about comfort. So saying "Not sure why someone would ask a question and then try and prove everyone who offered advice wrong" and then "Spot on" is just incorrect.

 

[Bufort]

Not sure why someone would ask a question and then try and prove everyone who offered advice wrong? I'm very happy with my choice of wheels and tyres - hope you will be with yours. Good luck.

No, I never asked whether a wider tyre gives a bigger contact area, somebody else did, thank you very much. I wasn't even trying to prove you wrong; I told you what I thought and asked you to elaborate on your answer, but you still haven't. My question was whether a 19" wheel with the same profile tyre I have on my 18's will fit. I never mentioned grip or contact area.

At this point, I prefer to take Mark Twain's advice...

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

It seems all you want to do is insult me rather than actually reading whats been said and answering the questions. You still haven't told me why my theory on the contact patch was wrong, and just insult me. Well done.

 

[True-Blue]

Who titled the thread?

Frankly couldn’t care less what you run on your car, as you seem to want to disagree with numerous people on here who are very happy with the comfort on 19’s with a reduced tyre profile compared to 18’s.... which is completely at odds with your thread title.

Jesus Christ. Did you read the entire thread? - I asked about 19" vs 18" tyre comfort. Where did I disagree with anyone on comfort of 19's? Nowhere. The title was based on my findings before this thread, obviously, and now I've found out otherwise; isn't that the entire point of a forum? In fact, I thanked people for their help and decided to go with 19's. Please show me where I disagreed and told someone they were wrong about the comfort of their tyres.

This 'argument' you're referring to now is about tyre grip and contact patches - which is not a question that I even asked, and not the title of this thread. I just offered what I thought about the tyre grip question, and was told I'm wrong, and now I'm asking for you or anyone else to explain why it's wrong, and nobody is!

This:

Not sure why someone would ask a question and then try and prove everyone who offered advice wrong? I'm very happy with my choice of wheels and tyres - hope you will be with yours. Good luck.

Spot on, and to state the obvious ‘everybody says 19’’ are uncomfortable’ is blatantly not true... many on here more than happy on 19’s with the right tires!

... has nothing to do with the question I asked about comfort. So saying "Not sure why someone would ask a question and then try and prove everyone who offered advice wrong" and then "Spot on" is just incorrect.

Maybe Jesus Christ can answer the hypothesis on contact patches..... He might pop along, it’s Sunday after all

What I can tell you is that if you run 19’s with the same profile tires as 18’s you will increase the rotational mass mass and impact handling and acceleration in a negative way! This on it’s own would put me off, but it’s your choice of course.

You could spend a fortune on super-light forged 19’s but the additional weight of higher profile rubber would negate the impact somewhat.

The coupe looks good on 18’s or 19’s but the less rotational mass you have the better. Increasing the rolling diameter of your wheels will negatively impact acceleration (although in theory positively impact maximum speed in any gear).

I hope this is a more constructive response

 

[z4pilot]

No, I never asked whether a wider tyre gives a bigger contact area, somebody else did, thank you very much. I wasn't even trying to prove you wrong; I told you what I thought and asked you to elaborate on your answer, but you still haven't. My question was whether a 19" wheel with the same profile tyre I have on my 18's will fit. I never mentioned grip or contact area.

At this point, I prefer to take Mark Twain's advice...

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

It seems all you want to do is insult me rather than actually reading whats been said and answering the questions. You still haven't told me why my theory on the contact patch was wrong, and just insult me. Well done.

If you felt insulted, then I apologise. Having read back through this thread, I think the questions you have asked were all answered on Page 2.

As far as contact patches go, it's plainly obvious that a push bike tyre will have less contact patch area than the rear tyre of a Lambo, so clearly tyre width matters, but in the area we are talking about, the difference between a 245 section tyre or a 255 tyre, especially if you are messing around with the sidewall ratio to maintain a close approximation to the original rolling radius, the difference in contact patch size will be negligable and have no meaningfully detrimental affect on the car's roadholding in 99% of driving situations.

In the same way, if your primary concern is comfort, you could theoretically increase the sidewall ratio to the point where it would feel like you were riding on marshmallows, but that would clearly introduce the risk of fouling the arch liners and have a detrimental effect on speedo accuracy and other factors that other posters have pointed out.

Most aftermarket 19s are 8.5J (at the front), and will have offsets that will move the outer face of the wheel outwards. If you want to increase the rolling radius of your wheels by increasing the sidewall, particularly at the front, you need to work out if that will cause rubbing. Most on here will choose to drop the sidewall ratio - so from 40 to a 35, in order to minimise the risk. If not, then there's a certain amount of suck it and see - as others have pointed out, there are a few variables to take into account so what works for one, may not work for another. If you go outside of the norms then it is at your own risk.

I'm not interested in a pissing contest with you. As I said before, I'm happy with my wheel and tyre choices and I've gone through a few to get there - I'm running 19s on a lowered car and have zero issues with rub or harsh ride. Good luck with your choice - I think the info you need is in this thread.

 

[tomscott]

Well that escalated quickly...

 

[mr wilks]

Well that escalated quickly...

Don't you mean unflated

 

[True-Blue]

To the OP,.....

Have a look at this...

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2011/04/part-i-why-wheel-weight-slows-most-people-down/

And this...

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2011/04/wheel-tech-part-iii-wheel-diameters-effect-on-performance/

So, while 19’s might look the part on an E86 it’s likely they will blunt performance (a little) compared to 18’s (unless you are looking at expensive lightweight 19’s).... especially if you run a sidewall profile the same as on the 18’’

On this basis, how much do you really want 19’s as 18’s probably offer the best all round compromise in terms of looks, comfort and performance

 

[Bufort]

I hope this is a more constructive response

If you felt insulted, then I apologise. Having read back through this thread, I think the questions you have asked were all answered on Page 2.

Thank you and thank you, and yes, my actual question was answered ages ago, and these comments about me disagreeing had nothing to do with 19" comfort, it was contact patches.

I've picked up a secondhand set of 19s with pretty new 225/35 and 255/35 tyres as a cheap way of finding out for myself, but I think it'll do me fine as I probably won't be going on any track days and i'll find out soon if they're what I was expecting.

Well that escalated quickly...

And it was your question that started it!

 

[mr wilks]

I hope this is a more constructive response

If you felt insulted, then I apologise. Having read back through this thread, I think the questions you have asked were all answered on Page 2.

Thank you and thank you, and yes, my actual question was answered ages ago, and these comments about me disagreeing had nothing to do with 19" comfort, it was contact patches.

I've picked up a secondhand set of 19s with pretty new 225/35 and 255/35 tyres as a cheap way of finding out for myself, but I think it'll do me fine as I probably won't be going on any track days and i'll find out soon if they're what I was expecting.

Well that escalated quickly...

And it was your question that started it!

Now you need to spend time studying different tyres if they are part worn cheapos they will not compare to new premium branded tyres in terms of comfort & ride quality so don't assume how your car feels is how all Zs on 19s feel .
There is a world of difference across the spectrum of tyre manufacturers