EU referendum
- Thread starter marchantsuk
- Start date
jimmybell said:
Instinct is a very good method of picking a side. You do your research, you listen and you go with what your instinct tells you is the right side. I made my mind up a while ago. I'm not your typical Euro sceptic but as soon as it became clear what Cameron went into battle for it was obvious to me to vote to leave.
jimmybell said:
It is ABSOLUTELY about what the EU stands for. Nobody is saying some sort of European alliance isn't a good idea in this debate. Or at least the vast majority aren't. It is all about the nature of that alliance and how it has evolved over the years. It's political and economic philosophy. I think most no-voters will be quite reluctant no-voters (me included) but if this alliance fails to deliver and the other member states have no intention of changing then I'm left with little alternative other than to leave. From a personal perspective I think it is a left-wing organisation that stifles productivity and competitiveness.
I had to laugh at CJ thinking that working with European financial institutions gave him a great insight into macro economics. None of them saw the financial crisis coming until it was too late. I've done some work with NAMA in Ireland, which is basically the Irish governments bad bank where all the toxic lending from Irish banks got moved into. All €77bn of it. I've also a father with over 40 years banking experience in corporate lending as well. Remember Greece and Ireland have had IMF loans to stop them going bust and Portugal and Italy will probably both need them in the future. So that's why >100% of GDP in debt is a bad idea. Incidentally the UK is about 89%. The Eurozone is a series of stagnant economies I'll-equipped to compete with the rest of the world because it is up to its eyeballs in debt.
RickRob said:Mr Tidy said:DumfriesDik said:
Can't see why not - Israel has never been in Europe after all!
If there was a promise that we couldn't participate in or broadcast Eurovision then that would be the clincher for me to vote out! :lol:
We should start a poll with that, 100% out rate guaranteed!
Here's an interesting 'clock' for debt and deficits pan EU. Some interesting numbers:
http://www.debtclocks.eu/public-debt-and-budget-deficits-comparison-of-the-eu-member-states.html
http://www.debtclocks.eu/public-debt-and-budget-deficits-comparison-of-the-eu-member-states.html
original guvnor said:
This made me laugh, though I pretty much agree with everything you've said thus far, however most people in the banking industry probably new about the financial catastrophe before Lehman's filed for chapter 11, they were just to scared to do anything about it, gotta retain stock value!!!
Free trade within Europe will remain even if we leave, Commercial interests from Germany & France won't allow that to happen and it's not just cars, conversely the UK government will not introduce import duties because of the commercial implications and the effect thereof from Industry and the voting public.
Also the free movement of workers might get more restrictive, but I do not see it changing fundamentally, we are not suddenly going to deport the currently legal workers from our European neighbours our economy is dependent on the revenue this brings in.
cj10jeeper said:
That really is interesting, what we need is all the former East European countries to get more public debt by buying more of the materialistic crap that the established Western Europe produces and going for Holidays in Greece, Spain and Portugal!!!
The problem is, just like the Scottish Indy ref, very very few people will have the opportunity to be presented all the facts in an unbiased way, and make a decision based on them.
There'll be too much scaremongering, blinded nationalism and blurred facts in the "OUT" camp.
There'll be too much scaremongering, accusations of nationalism and blurred facts in the "IN" camp.
I'm a northern, relatively working class 24 year old lad who's generally left leaning and pretty opinionated. On this one I don't really have a clue, I don't think I'm going to be given enough reliable information one way or the other to form a free opinion. I think a lot of "yes" leaning older people as has been mentioned are too quick to don the rose tinted glasses and think of the good old days, as if the world is still anything approaching the same place it was in 1973. I also think a lot of no voters are naively disregarding the yes vote as nationalistic or right wing rather than try to debate the economics and risks involved.
So in summary, not got a fucking clue.
There'll be too much scaremongering, blinded nationalism and blurred facts in the "OUT" camp.
There'll be too much scaremongering, accusations of nationalism and blurred facts in the "IN" camp.
I'm a northern, relatively working class 24 year old lad who's generally left leaning and pretty opinionated. On this one I don't really have a clue, I don't think I'm going to be given enough reliable information one way or the other to form a free opinion. I think a lot of "yes" leaning older people as has been mentioned are too quick to don the rose tinted glasses and think of the good old days, as if the world is still anything approaching the same place it was in 1973. I also think a lot of no voters are naively disregarding the yes vote as nationalistic or right wing rather than try to debate the economics and risks involved.
So in summary, not got a fucking clue.
Ste said:
I'm with you on the sports car owning - but I don't think we can assume everyone on here is white and middle aged (I'm certainly not!)
ronk said:Ste said:
I do hope I'm middle aged at 68
However it's the age where I saw the UK go into EEC and had a referendum vote last time.
What qualifies as middle age these days? I really hope its not 40!!!
Ste I think our female members and others may have something to say about your comment, better put on a hard hat!!!
sars said:
Beleive me, Eastern European countries are not in a tight schedule and big dept by buying more materialistic crap. Actually there are huge taxes (I get 60% tax on my income) in order to "save the banks". As a result people are unable to spend nowdays on luxuries... and as a result the economy can not get back.
Furthermore you would be amazed on the salaries. I am a Band 7 (to band (8)), Pharmacist (5 years Uni), with an MBA and an MSc/PgDip in clinical pharmacy and after taxes I get almost 1200 euros per month working from Monday -Saturday. For my Z4 2.0 (I dont ahve family so I can spend those money for me) I pay 800 euros roadtax.
So as I said taxes are strugling eastern countries and as a result economy doesnt move and debpt rises in order for the banks to be saved.
I have worked on the NHS for one year and made 6 times that. I stay here (Italy and Greece) for other reasons.
Feel free to ask me any questions
jimmybell said:Z4SpPD said:Feel free to ask me any questions
What's the Greek and Italian view on Brexit?
First of all apologies for any spelling mistakes.
My personal opinion is that if the UK gets out of the EE, it will be the beginning of a breakdown for the union, something that will happen eventually I believe, as people will rise in the south at some point as most of our scientists flee to Europe and the USA and the remaining back see no future with the current politics so they will also ask for an Itaexit or a Grexit in order to start over.
Concerning the UK, there could be a referendum from Scotland asking to stay within the EE, many companies and trades will get from England based soil to the North where limitations would be less and thus England will lose some strength and debt will rise.
That's my humble opinion though and I am not a political analyst
So there we have it, Out wins. Interesting to see how this matches reality in a few months time. Whilst the forum is for like minded people (i.e. Sports car owners) I think it's a reasonable cross section of society who will vote. We have young and old, male and female, self employed and employed and probably unemployed.
No one has all the answers and I guess you have to balance the (limited) facts presented with your own thoughts and often gut reaction.
What ever the outcome, we will always be better off than some and worse off than others.
No one has all the answers and I guess you have to balance the (limited) facts presented with your own thoughts and often gut reaction.
What ever the outcome, we will always be better off than some and worse off than others.
Z4SpPD said:sars said:
Beleive me, Eastern European countries are not in a tight schedule and big dept by buying more materialistic crap. Actually there are huge taxes (I get 60% tax on my income) in order to "save the banks". As a result people are unable to spend nowdays on luxuries... and as a result the economy can not get back.
Furthermore you would be amazed on the salaries. I am a Band 7 (to band (8)), Pharmacist (5 years Uni), with an MBA and an MSc/PgDip in clinical pharmacy and after taxes I get almost 1200 euros per month working from Monday -Saturday. For my Z4 2.0 (I dont ahve family so I can spend those money for me) I pay 800 euros roadtax.
So as I said taxes are strugling eastern countries and as a result economy doesnt move and debpt rises in order for the banks to be saved.
I have worked on the NHS for one year and made 6 times that. I stay here (Italy and Greece) for other reasons.
Feel free to ask me any questions
If I read this right, your saying as a Pharmacist in the NHS you earn't 7,200 per month Euros after tax?! That equates to about 100K euros or about £80,000 per year before tax roughly. I thought the average Pharmacist earns £35k ish with the highest earners on about £50k. No wonder the NHS is under funded!!!
MACK said:Z4SpPD said:sars said:
Beleive me, Eastern European countries are not in a tight schedule and big dept by buying more materialistic crap. Actually there are huge taxes (I get 60% tax on my income) in order to "save the banks". As a result people are unable to spend nowdays on luxuries... and as a result the economy can not get back.
Furthermore you would be amazed on the salaries. I am a Band 7 (to band (8)), Pharmacist (5 years Uni), with an MBA and an MSc/PgDip in clinical pharmacy and after taxes I get almost 1200 euros per month working from Monday -Saturday. For my Z4 2.0 (I dont ahve family so I can spend those money for me) I pay 800 euros roadtax.
So as I said taxes are strugling eastern countries and as a result economy doesnt move and debpt rises in order for the banks to be saved.
I have worked on the NHS for one year and made 6 times that. I stay here (Italy and Greece) for other reasons.
Feel free to ask me any questions
If I read this right, your saying as a Pharmacist in the NHS you earn't 7,200 per month Euros after tax?! That equates to about 100K euros or about £80,000 per year before tax roughly. I thought the average Pharmacist earns £35k ish with the highest earners on about £50k. No wonder the NHS is under funded!!!
1) was about 65k - 68k but I have 2 MSc and I also worked EVERY weekend and some bank holidays as an independent prescriber (35-40 pounds per hour) plus tried to have most of my Locums on holiday season where it pays more. But you get the point