E89 20i - Hill Assist

Right, thought I'd add my tuppence worth.. Picked up my Z4 2.0i m sport from douglas park in Hamilton two weeks ago and thought i would register on the forum to specifically chip in with this subject. I believed when i picked up the car that it had hill assist (to be honest I had my doubts about the EPB and thought it gave me a bit of confidence)
As is blindingly obvious now it doesnt have hill assist and to be honest I'm finding it hard to get used to. It is possible to use but hill assist would have been a big plus.
The EPB has no feel, with a normal handbrake you get biting point start to release the handbrake and as you pull away you fully let the handbrake in. Not possible with the z4 you have to make sure you have biting point and enough power to pull away. Very hard to describe but you probably know what I mean.
It is do-able and one of those things that you get better at with practice but a bit heart in the mouth the first few times (it is a very expensive brand new car). I'm not going to go down the road of going back to the dealer and kicking up a fuss I feel that it has been a mistake on the brochures and I love the car enough to live with this.
So if you have this car on pre order I would say it's up to you but I do feel it is a skill to be learnt and not a deal breaker for me, as I say just thought I would chip in my experience....hope it helps.
 
I can't beleive peeps have an issue with the EPB and need too learn how to use it. When I jumped into the Zed for the first and went on my way I didn't even give it a second thought, same with pulling away on gradients, I'm wondering if people are thinking about its use too much :)

Tim.
 
As the original OP of this Hill Assist topic I'm going to bow out on a final note.
many see it as not a big deal, well everybodies circumstances are different, for me it's a major problem as I have explained before.
I spoke with the dealer principal tonight and thanked him for putting this deal right.
I am now a happy man, in a car that I'm paying a lot of money for.
It seems to have turned into a discussion on how to perfect a hill start using the epb, not the case.
I'll monitor the topic but will refrain from adding anymore as I have said all I can.
i hope you all have a satifactory outcome.
 
Gsm said:
As the original OP of this Hill Assist topic I'm going to bow out on a final note.
many see it as not a big deal, well everybodies circumstances are different, for me it's a major problem as I have explained before.
I spoke with the dealer principal tonight and thanked him for putting this deal right.
I am now a happy man, in a car that I'm paying a lot of money for.
It seems to have turned into a discussion on how to perfect a hill start using the epb, not the case.
I'll monitor the topic but will refrain from adding anymore as I have said all I can.
i hope you all have a satifactory outcome.
Click to expand...

I can understand your feelings, personally I couldn't pass on a car such as the Z4 simply as it didn't have hill assist, its too funky :)

Tim.
 
GSM & Tim - you are both right in that perhaps people are thinking about the issue too much. My reason is that I don't have the car yet and therefore don't know how much of a problem it will be.

I've never had an EPB, so that was always going to be slightly different to get used to.

However, yes, this has gone the way of actually doing a hill start, cos that is what the issue is all about - the lack of hill start assist coupled with EPB for those of us who don't know what its actually like, could be a worry point. When talking about hill starts, the worry is you are going to roll backwards, so I think it is ok for us to seek confirmation that the EPB isn't going to make it impossible.

Feedback from those with their cars suggests it is ok, and Zedhead's post confirms its going to be a learning curve due to the EPB, but none of what has been posted today by those who have the cars leads me to believe that the lack of hill start assist will be a problem once I've got used to it.

GSM - I will re-read the thread to remind myself of your issues, as they must've been quite severe to warrant the change of car.
 
kevinmarkwhite said:
GSM & Tim - you are both right in that perhaps people are thinking about the issue too much. My reason is that I don't have the car yet and therefore don't know how much of a problem it will be.

I've never had an EPB, so that was always going to be slightly different to get used to.

However, yes, this has gone the way of actually doing a hill start, cos that is what the issue is all about - the lack of hill start assist coupled with EPB for those of us who don't know what its actually like, could be a worry point. When talking about hill starts, the worry is you are going to roll backwards, so I think it is ok for us to seek confirmation that the EPB isn't going to make it impossible.

Feedback from those with their cars suggests it is ok, and Zedhead's post confirms its going to be a learning curve due to the EPB, but none of what has been posted today by those who have the cars leads me to believe that the lack of hill start assist will be a problem once I've got used to it.

GSM - I will re-read the thread to remind myself of your issues, as they must've been quite severe to warrant the change of car.
Click to expand...

Hi Kevin, didn't you test drive before you ordered? I honestly don't think the lack of hill assist is a problem but like you say it might be for some and if your ordering a car thats expensive then you want too make sure its not a problem. Why not pop to the dealers and have a test drive this weekend.

Tim.
 
Tested a 23i which has hill start - and at the time, so did the 20i (hahaha) so it never entered my mind. It didn't enter my mind until this thread....

The dealer doesn't have a 20i, although I went in today for another issue and noticed a new red zed, so will check what that is.

Definitely not cancelling due to this, so hopefully moaning about nothing!
 
I've tested the dealer's demo 20i and am about to drive it back to Chester.

I'm convinced everyone needs to test this for themselves. There is no simple yes / no answer.

I'll post more when I'm back home -- it will be about 2 1/2 hours more or less.


a/
 
I've been reading this board since considering a Z4 and ordered a 28i which is due beginning of April.

I spoek with my dealer today to get an update on the order, and took the opportunity to try and get clarification on the Hill Assist issue.

I told him about the confusion regarding this, and how it is listed in the specs of the 4 cylinder models (both in print and online) and that apparently this is a mistake. He put me on hold and came back adament that it is on the car!

Obviously, I don't believe it considering everyones experiance, but it amazes me that the dealers are still clueless. Unless it is on the 28i but not the 20i?

Can't wait to get the car!
 
Yep, I think he is wrong, there are enough reports on here to even convince a pedantic fart like me.

What would be interesting though, is for you to ask for it in writing! I bet the guy just checked the specs and thought we were all wrong. Ask for it in writing - I bet he'll double check then!
 
Found this:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/z4/z4/2009/allfacts/engine/dsc_more.html

Its not the UK site, but still relevant I think. Notice the asterix.
 
T9BYG said:
I've been reading this board since considering a Z4 and ordered a 28i which is due beginning of April.

I spoek with my dealer today to get an update on the order, and took the opportunity to try and get clarification on the Hill Assist issue.

I told him about the confusion regarding this, and how it is listed in the specs of the 4 cylinder models (both in print and online) and that apparently this is a mistake. He put me on hold and came back adament that it is on the car!

Obviously, I don't believe it considering everyones experiance, but it amazes me that the dealers are still clueless. Unless it is on the 28i but not the 20i?

Can't wait to get the car!
Click to expand...

Really hope you are wrong since BMW UK has told my dealer that neither of the 4 cylinder engines have it. Please please please triple check this before ordering if it is essential for you.

BTW - for everyone with an interest in this BMW HAVE REMOVED THIS FROM THE SPEC ON THE BMW UK WEBSITE AS OF YESTERDAY!
 
sars said:
Well done Stephen, this has been like pulling hens teeth :D
Click to expand...
Thank you Sars just seemed it was becoming compulsive reading but without a definative answer which, I believe you provided but people seemed to doubt just cause was the 30i. so really the thanks are due to you .Steve.
 
stephendutton1963 said:
sars said:
Well done Stephen, this has been like pulling hens teeth :D
Click to expand...
Thank you Sars just seemed it was becoming compulsive reading but without a definative answer which, I believe you provided but people seemed to doubt just cause was the 30i. so really the thanks are due to you .Steve.
Click to expand...

:D :thumbsup: +1

It is obvious that you need to treat hill starting like a manual handbrake, will take a bit of getting used to with the EPB - would have considered speccing auto, if I knew hill start was missing, as I think you have said before stephen.

Cheers guys and going to avoid this topic until I get a resolution at my end :wink:
 
My dealership has told me to speak to BMW directly which I will do on Monday morning. I will be monitoring this thread however I won't be making anymore posts as regards to my situation until I get a resolution at my end. I may end up postponing pick up until resolution with BMW.
 
T9BYG said:
I told him about the confusion regarding this, and how it is listed in the specs of the 4 cylinder models (both in print and online) and that apparently this is a mistake. He put me on hold and came back adament that it is on the car!
Click to expand...

That is because BMW got it wrong not just on the website and brochure but (according to our dealer) also on the internal documents they supplied to UK dealers.
 
I've been reading this thread from the start, and to be honest, I'm still not clear on what the issue is! :tumbleweed:

It's clear there's been a c0ck up somewhere which indicated Hill Assist was available on the 20i and 28i which it appears is wrong. No problem there. :rtfm:

What I can quite figure out is what difference not having the Hill Assist makes? Is it just that without Hill Assist, you've got to be a bit quicker on the uptake with the clutch when pulling away on a slope? Or does not having it make it more difficult to judge the biting point? Or something else entirely? :dizzy:
 
Ok. Here is my full report based on actually testing a 2011 Z4 sDrive20i.

I drove to an empty parking lot where I work. The lot has a decent slope to it, so I was able to conduct some tests without having to worry about road traffic.

The Electric Parking Brake works as described in BMW's documentation. There is a LOT of confusion on how the EPB works, so let's go over that first:

  • BMW's letter code for the parking brake system is EMF.
  • The parking brake works on two systems, the service brake and a pair of electric actuators on the rear wheels.
    If the car is on, the EMF puts on both the service brake and the rear wheel brakes. If the car is off, the EMF only applies the rear wheel electric brake.
  • If you try to release the brake without depressing the clutch, the brake pedal or both, the parking brake does not release. You get a chime and yellow warning light.
  • Having either the clutch or the brake pedal depressed is enough to release the brake. You don't need to have both pedals down.
  • If you apply the parking brake when the car is moving, it does a panic stop. Don't try this on a road.
  • EMF holds the car very firmly. Much more so than BMW's traditional mechanical parking brake.
  • There is a one second delay to apply or release the parking brake.
  • The parking brake releases all at once. There is not a gradual transition
 
The car I drove does not have hill assist. The 4-cylinder e89s do not have it. It can not be retrofitted. Our dealer showed me an email from a BMW tech support.

To do a hill start without the car rolling back you have to either use the parking brake or heal-toe the car. I didn't try heal-toe, but it should work. That isn't how hill starts are taught here and might not be safe. If you try that, you are on your own.

-- In case anyone is wondering, yes I know how to do handbrake hill starts even though I'm an American. I passed my UK full driving exam about 3 years ago. 4 minor faults, none of them for handbrake or control issues.

In theory, a electric parking brake should be the same as a hill start with mechanical brake. They aren't though because the EMF doesn't work the same way.

My first few starts, I tried it just like I would with a mechanical handbrake. Clutch to biting point, light throttle and release the brake. If you do this, you get a warning chime and the car surges forward when the brake pops off.

I experimented and the key to getting a smooth start is to hit the brake release button early. If you time it just right, the parking brake releases right as you get the clutch to the bite point. Done like this starts are smooth and there isn't any warning chime. But if you are too slow engaging the clutch, the car will roll back.

After about half an hour of practice, I was good enough at it to try this on the road. On mild grades with little traffic I had no problems at all. In long uphill queues I was constantly falling back from the car in front of me. It was taking me a long time to get the car moving. I might get better with practice, but you can only get so far ahead. Same with pulling out into traffic -- you need that extra second for the electric motors to release the brake. At first is also a little unnerving to hit the release button while the clutch is disengaged.

Steep hills were a lot harder. Passing the practical driving test in this car could be exceptionally difficult. At least here, where the test routes include some 15-25% grades.

I should get better with practice but there are limits to what I'll ever be able to do. There isn't any feel to the thing. It is all timing. It is also on or off. You don't have the same level of control you do with mechanical handbrake.

I doubt I would ever be able to parallel park on a steep hill.

Others might do better or worse than me.


We've decided to accept the car as is. I don't like having to use the EMF for hill starts, but overall I don't think we can get a better car for the same money. For us the car is drivable, but there are a few places here on on Anglesey where I won't be able to park it.

Here are a couple of photos of the dealer demonstrator:



DemoZa.jpg


DemoZ.jpg
 
Thanks for the write up and pics A*D demo looks nice in Sterling Grey 8)

I really don't think the EPB will be a problem unless you dawdle about once realeased, the demo I drove, I just released the brake and off I went, I just think you need your wits about you a little more. The only time I see it could be a problem is in a line of traffic where the car in front is slow off the mark and then stops, or in slow moving traffic on a steep gradient. End of the days its like anything new, with a little practice will soon pick it up.

I cannot believe anyone would be thinking of cancelling their order for something over this.

Tim.
 
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