Not too sure what all the fuss is about, I've had my sDrive20i since November - just use the electronic brake when hill starting exactly the same as you would with a normal hand brake, gentle revs until you feel a slight pull, release the brake, off you go. If your nervous about it then try before you by, I'm sure your dealer would be able to find a suitable hill on the test drive.
E89 20i - Hill Assist
- Thread starter Gsm
- Start date
When i driven my old mans range rover sport with an EPB it released it as soon as you started moving which i liked.
With the z4 this isnt the case which surprised me first time i tried it, although im lucky with a 35i hill assist is standard. I think it just makes it easier and makes pulling off on a hill lazy, i dont have to think about it.....
I think if i didn't have it i would just adapt my driving and don't think it would be a problem, nice to have feature but defiantly not essential in my book.
With the z4 this isnt the case which surprised me first time i tried it, although im lucky with a 35i hill assist is standard. I think it just makes it easier and makes pulling off on a hill lazy, i dont have to think about it.....
I think if i didn't have it i would just adapt my driving and don't think it would be a problem, nice to have feature but defiantly not essential in my book.
kevinmarkwhite said:
From the ST901 - E89 Complete Vehicle.pdf that Andrew posted about previously (Thanks by the way)
EMF is the Electromechanical parking brake
Releasing the Parking Brake
The EMF button is pushed down to release the parking brake. For the parking brake to actually release terminal 15 must additionally be on and at least one of the following conditions must apply:
• Brake pedal pressed or
• Parking lock of automatic gearbox engaged or clutch pedal pressed (only vehicle with manual gearbox).
This prevents the vehicle from inadvertently rolling if, for example, the EMF button is pressed by another occupant instead of the driver. The LED in the EMF button and the EMF indicator in the instrument cluster go out when the parking brake is released.
I need to see what it is like in real life as my E85 had hill assist which was very useful on slopes as well as hills to illiminate the chance of rolling back (well at least for a couple of seconds). I was very happy to see it as part of the spec but having read this thread need to try it out for myself to see it is a deal breaker!! I hope not.
Guys, I have just been out to my car, which is sitting on my drive and categorically you do not need to have your foot on the brake to release the EPB or EMF whatever you want to call it. If you rev the engine quickly (high rate of change in revs) then you get that damn annoying alarm.....
A
Anonymous
Guest
NickA said:
Thats the confirmation we needed, cos there are contradictory posts appearing.
In that case, there is no fuss about actually using it, as it operates in effect the same as all other manual handbrake cars.
The fuss is about it being wrongly listed.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Gsm said:
ARHH!!!! THIS IS THE CONFUSING ISSUE!!!
Obviously, if the foot brake NEEDS to be pressed, then you wont be able to get the clutch to biting point whilst applying some revs. Therefore, you will have to press the footbrake, release the EPB, then roll back a bit whilst you swap from the footbrake to the throttle.
However, Sars and NickA (who has a 20i) say you dont need the footbrake pressed to release the EPB, meaning you can correctly get to biting point.
So which is it? If its as Sars and NickA say, then thats ok. If its as you say, then surely thats friggin dangerous and whats the workaround?
Gsm said:
+1000
For anyone who doesn't have their car yet, get in a demo and give it a try. Opinions are all over the place and many of the people posting don't have a 20i.
ST901 - E89 Complete Vehicle is from 2009. It may or may not accurately describe how systems work in a 20i.
FYI... I have just got back from visiting the dealership during my lunch hour. I tried this myself on a used 23i manual they have in stock. You DO NOT have to press the brake and it worked exactly how previous posters said it does. Unless there is a fundamental difference in the 20i then this has confirmed my worry was over nothing.
A
Anonymous
Guest
NormStrm said:
Wow, I need a bigger monitor to fit that large text on!
I did see the bit about Clutch pedal instead of brake, but, if you are raising the clutch to biting point, it isn't fully depressed, is it? Therefore, does the car still sense it as being depressed for this purpose?
By the info given by NickA who has a 2.0i, it would imply that it does, and that is ok.
Here's the scenario:
You get stuck in traffic on a hill. You put the EPB on, put car in manual and release the clutch so that STOP/START kicks in and turns the engine off. When its time to go, you put the clutch in all the way and the engine re-starts, then put it in 1st gear and then raise the clutch whilst giving some revs to get to biting point. Then, release the EPB and bobs your uncle.
If it works like this, then (as I said before) there isn't an issue with its safety.
If however it needs either the brake pedal or clutch pedal to be fully pressed, then it will be impossible to do a hill start without rolling back etc, and logically I can't see them releasing a car like that.
Could it be that the Brake or Clutch pedal only needs to be pressed if the car is not in gear? That would work for the safety issues, but when any of these manouvers are taking place, the car would be in gear.
Did the 23i have hill start? Thats the only demo my dealer has, so may be a pointless test.
I am inclined to believe NickA as he has a 20i. Isn't Sars car different?
I've never even had to think about doing anything different when driving my Z4 since I got it, just thought of the EPB as a tiny handbrake which needs minimum effort to pull on. I travel around 40 miles a day, 20 of that in heavy traffic, some of it on hills when I use my handbrake, sorry, EPB, and I've not had any issues juggling with the clutch or brake (yes, I've got a manual, not an auto). If you've never had a car with hill assist, and have used a normal hand brake before then you won't have any problems with a 20i.
Sars has a 30i. The 23i and 30i both have hill start and do not have auto-stop start.
The new 4 cylinder cars (28i and 20i) do not have hill start and do have auto-stop start.
The new 4 cylinder cars (28i and 20i) do not have hill start and do have auto-stop start.
I've booked a 1/2 day in our dealers sDrive20i demonstrator. By tomorrow afternoon, I should know for myself one way or the other.
I'll post here afterwards, but really anyone else with a car on order or thinking about ordering should try it for themselves.
a/
I'll post here afterwards, but really anyone else with a car on order or thinking about ordering should try it for themselves.
a/
stephendutton1963
Member
Hi guys, just to confirm, I went out for a drive in my sDrive20i, correct it does not have Hill Assistance. But as previously stated by Sars you DO NOT need your foot on the brake to de-activate the EPB,the clutch pedal will suffice,therefore it is possible to perform a hill start as per a "normal" car. So no safety issues in my opinion. I thought the topic was about something being as advertised and not fitted, and on that subject I think we still need answers. How far people choose to take this is entirely down to personal opinion, I for one would have liked the Hill Assistance, as its fitted on my better halfs Cooper S and i find it helpful.I guesss if we were all that worried then autos would have been the way to go. Thank you to all who read this and have a wonderful weekend, Steve
A
Anonymous
Guest
stephendutton1963 said:
So it allows you to release the EPB with the clutch at biting point and not fully pressed? Thats good.
The thread is really about the issue of it being mis-advertised, but I guess has gone on a tangent as to the actual effect of not having it. If it works like a normal car (i.e. hold car on hill with biting point of clutch then release brake) then I wonder why the OP couldn't get on with it? (I haven't re-read his original posts, so forgive me if I am forgetting something).
A
Anonymous
Guest
sars said:Well done Stephen, this has been like pulling hens teeth
But to be fair, your car is different, so it needed a 20i owner to confirm, and the whole thing was to determine the practical differences of having hill start, and not having hill start.
Oh, and, don't forget, those of us that are interested (i.e. us waiting for delivery) are getting impatient and OCD at the moment, so its not really our fault!!!!
Now we have established the EPB and hill start manoeuvre can be performed like a manual hand brake car (the confusion was on it not releasing) then I think for some of us (me) the practical issues are non-issues. Sure, to have it would've been nice, but I can live without it. Whereas, if it had meant a probability of rolling back every time, then I wouldn't like that.
So we're back now to the issue of - is there a case for compensation. Talking for myself only, if there is, I would be going for it purely as a money grabber!!!! But is there still a case, if the car can be driven properly and they use the disclaimer, I think they are safe.
The principle still annoys me, but then it might be purely down to human error on the spec list?