British Grand Prix

[ZermattV]

Bigger radius .... Hopefully will allow for bigger brakes and allow even more late braking

the limiting factor with brakes is mechanical grip not brake diameter

Great race, but we missed out on a classic for sure

Think JB was my driver of the weekend, got the most out of his car over the whole weekend, Lewis wears his emotions on his cuffs as they say, gutted when he makes a mistake and totally overwhelmed when he wins his home race, I admire him for this but it's his biggest downfall, such a talent but fails because he can't control his emotions.

Yep great post Sars. really rooting for Button this weekend.

 

[cj10jeeper]

IIRC the Merc brakes overheated a couple of races back because they fitted such tiny rears to reduce weight and allow the regen technology to do the braking instead of adequate sized brakes.

To me that indicates that they can get more than enough braking and cooling in the existing brakes should they feel the need to do so.

Still, the move to 18's makes sense visually and for tyre manufacturers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[-Tom-]

Ah good answer CJ10 ... , I didn't know why they were over heating their rears but that makes sense.

Makes more sense for the true manufactures loads as they can apply the research to the road and more track alike. Will be a headache to adapt the suspension design though if they spring it on them. Bad pun there

 

[cj10jeeper]

The suspension will be radical design difference as I'm sure will many other elements of the car.

If anyone doubts the suspension in a tyre wall try switching from 17's to 20's on a road car.
I cannot even imagine the change from 13's to 18's on cars hitting 200mph and pulling 5g at times.

 

[exdos]

I really don't get why so many people dislike Lewis. He always gets a microphone shoved in his face immediately after practice, qualifying and races, whilst he's either on a high or low, as any of us would be, yet he's never rude or arrogant about his superior talents. What would everyone think of him if he conducted himself like Kimi during interviews? IMO, he's had more than his fair share of bad luck or been the recipient of bad judgment of others affecting his results over the past few years and has had to take it all on the chin. He's far and away the best driver on the grid and I bet he's a really nice chap in "real life".

 

[ranski]

I really don't get why so many people dislike Lewis. He always gets a microphone shoved in his face immediately after practice, qualifying and races, whilst he's either on a high or low, as any of us would be, yet he's never rude or arrogant about his superior talents. What would everyone think of him if he conducted himself like Kimi during interviews? IMO, he's had more than his fair share of bad luck or been the recipient of bad judgment of others affecting his results over the past few years and has had to take it all on the chin. He's far and away the best driver on the grid and I bet he's a really nice chap in "real life".

yep... all very strange...

 

[original guvnor]

I really don't get why so many people dislike Lewis. He always gets a microphone shoved in his face immediately after practice, qualifying and races, whilst he's either on a high or low, as any of us would be, yet he's never rude or arrogant about his superior talents. What would everyone think of him if he conducted himself like Kimi during interviews? IMO, he's had more than his fair share of bad luck or been the recipient of bad judgment of others affecting his results over the past few years and has had to take it all on the chin. He's far and away the best driver on the grid and I bet he's a really nice chap in "real life".

Spot on I couldn't agree more. We have a habit in this country of knocking our top talent.

 

[original guvnor]

I think the 18" wheel thing is to assess for 2015 season. There'll be plenty of opportunity for the teams to design next seasons cars to accommodate it if they decide to go in that direction.

 

[exdos]

The suspension will be radical design difference as I'm sure will many other elements of the car.

If anyone doubts the suspension in a tyre wall try switching from 17's to 20's on a road car.
I cannot even imagine the change from 13's to 18's on cars hitting 200mph and pulling 5g at times.

I'm sure that the engineers can easily factor the increased demands of the suspension parts (i.e springs and dampers) from the reduction in sidewall height with the transfer from 13's to 18's. I expect the harder technical challenge will be heat control of the tyres with a smaller air volume inside a much larger rim: I'm thinking of the Ideal Gas Laws.

 

[buzyg]

Less tyre wall, but less weight too. Rubber is heavy stuff, Carbon fibre not so heavy. I'd hazard a guess that there is a significant weight saving going to 18's, That should provide more advantages for the engineers, setting up the suspension.

(Not so amazed just how little tech info I could find on Google about F1 tyres.) :roll:

 

[lux]

I really don't get why so many people dislike Lewis. He always gets a microphone shoved in his face immediately after practice, qualifying and races, whilst he's either on a high or low, as any of us would be, yet he's never rude or arrogant about his superior talents. What would everyone think of him if he conducted himself like Kimi during interviews? IMO, he's had more than his fair share of bad luck or been the recipient of bad judgment of others affecting his results over the past few years and has had to take it all on the chin. He's far and away the best driver on the grid and I bet he's a really nice chap in "real life".

Because he whinges like a spoilt teenager when something doesn't go his way. Why was nothing said about him trying to fuc# up Rosberg's quali? :|

 

[buzyg]

The suspension will be radical design difference as I'm sure will many other elements of the car.

If anyone doubts the suspension in a tyre wall try switching from 17's to 20's on a road car.
I cannot even imagine the change from 13's to 18's on cars hitting 200mph and pulling 5g at times.

I'm sure that the engineers can easily factor the increased demands of the suspension parts (i.e springs and dampers) from the reduction in sidewall height with the transfer from 13's to 18's. I expect the harder technical challenge will be heat control of the tyres with a smaller air volume inside a much larger rim: I'm thinking of the Ideal Gas Laws.

I'd think it's easier to control the temperature of the Rim than the tyre. Plus with less gas volume, as well, it should make the system more stable and easier to calculate. All relative of course, I woun't be trying on me slide rule.

 

[exdos]

Plus with less gas volume, as well, it should make the system more stable and easier to calculate.

In a smaller volume the pressure increases more with a given increase in temperature than it does for the same temperature rise in a larger volume. Therefore low profile tyres will tend to balloon across the contact patch more than they do with larger walled tyres of the same rolling radius. If they don't balloon because the volume is fixed, then the rise in pressure will just make the tyres even hotter, so making the performance of the rubber very difficult to control and we saw the problems that caused in the last couple of F1 seasons.

 

[sars]

Plus with less gas volume, as well, it should make the system more stable and easier to calculate.

In a smaller volume the pressure increases more with a given increase in temperature than it does for the same temperature rise in a larger volume.

I think Mr Boyle might disagree with you there honey

but I think I know what you are trying to say, that a larger volume is more stable given a change in temperature, in a dynamic way not steady state

Oh and I'm all for 18" alloys on F1 cars, I think having less movement on the tyre and more on suspension is a good thing

 

[exdos]

I think Mr Boyle might disagree with you there honey

I think I'm being "matronised" with the term "honey"

but I think I know what you are trying to say, that a larger volume is more stable given a change in temperature, in a dynamic way not steady state

A quick reference to Wiki says:
"The equation states that product of pressure and volume is a constant for a given mass of confined gas as long as the temperature is constant. For comparing the same substance under two different sets of condition, the law can be usefully expressed as
P_1 V_1 = P_2 V_2.
The equation shows that, as volume increases, the pressure of the gas decreases in proportion. Similarly, as volume decreases, the pressure of the gas increases. The law was named after chemist and physicist Robert Boyle, who published the original law in 1662"

I think that description fits in perfectly with what I was describing in my previous post and Robert Boyle would agree with me.

 

[sars]

However the combined law is the one, given the same temperature rise, if we have two different volumes the same rise in temperature will see the pressure in each volume increase by the same amount as long as the volume remains the same

 

[exdos]

However the combined law is the one, given the same temperature rise, if we have two different volumes the same rise in temperature will see the pressure in each volume increase by the same amount as long as the volume remains the same

Exactly! That's precisely to what I'd been referring in my earlier posting where, I'd related, pressure, volume and temperature.

So, do you agree with me that using low profile tyres will create a difficult problem of tyre management which will be hard to resolve during a 200 mile F1 race?

 

[buzyg]

However the combined law is the one, given the same temperature rise, if we have two different volumes the same rise in temperature will see the pressure in each volume increase by the same amount as long as the volume remains the same

Exactly! That's precisely to what I'd been referring in my earlier posting where, I'd related, pressure, volume and temperature.

So, do you agree with me that using low profile tyres will create a difficult problem of tyre management which will be hard to resolve during a 200 mile F1 race?

What are you talking about? Boyle's law, as you wrote it, states that for a given Volume of gas, A change in pressure is directly proportional ,to a change in temperature. It's a simple linier equation. It does not change because you have more or less gas to start with.

 

[exdos]

What are you talking about? Boyle's law, as you wrote it, states that for a given Volume of gas, A change in pressure is directly proportional ,to a change in temperature. It's a simple linier equation. It does not change because you have more or less gas to start with.

The basic question is: if the friction of tyres moving over the road generates heat (i.e. an increase in temperature), then does that heat create an greater increase in pressure within a smaller volume of air inside a tyre on an 18" rim than it does on a 13" rim where the volume of air will be greater, or not, provided that the rolling radius of the tyres remains the same, irrespective of the size of rim?

 

[original guvnor]

What's that whooshing noise? Oh it's the physics debate going over my head!