Auto or manual

Wondermike said:
but I would prefer to have more than just 1st and 2nd available to do it without going at stupid speeds.

That's a problem in general with performance cars nowadays
It's a bit the 'slow car fast - fast car slow' problem
For my car 1st is already useless, I get wheelspin mid gear on the best tarmac due to the torque of the twinscrew (and the relative low weight, so about 300bhp/tonne), so in order to get a faster start of the line I would need a longer first gear. 2nd gear is now ok (although there can be some spin on the change, also in dry on tarmac). 3rd to 5th could be shorter, but that's already beyond legal speeds most of the time, and 6th could be longer (more overdrive) for lower noise/better fuel economy/less wear.
So ideally I need different gearsets in the box (it's not something that you can achieve with a different diff ratio), but that's very expensive (and not readily of the shelf I think).
Having the torque/power that it easily breaks traction gives the feeling of a fast car, but it's not much quicker. I struggle to get a 0-62mph time below 5 seconds, just because of that. If the wheels break traction, you're not getting below 5.5, so you loose at least half a second. So to get the best time/fastest acceleration of the line you're hovering the throttle about halfway. Very frustrating to have all that power but to use it would be slower :lol:


To get the sensation of going fast at lower speeds you'd need an old car with old tyres. Less grip, less roadholding. Maybe more noise from the engine/suspension etc.
The fastest car is indeed not always the most fun car. The most fun cars are probably somehwere in their lifespan nicknamed widowmaker or something like that :lol:
 
Here is a new view from a newbie. I searched for a manual when I got my e89. I shared an e85 manual 3.0ltr with my Son and was pleased with that. Thought I would never buy an auto . A sports car with an auto box, no way. Performance is important but so is cruising. The manual sdrive30i test drive showed a road ratio of less than 25mph/1000 RPM. The auto return was nearly 30mph/1000RPM so surprised that the final drive ratio or diff ratios are different. 70mph@2300rpm in an auto is a much less stressful drive on a long journey than around 2850rpm at the same speed in a manual. I found driving the auto box in a manual mode great and the options of sport mode auto and normal a further swaying factor. (Mine 2011 sdrive30i highline M Sport)
This information only became available on a road test, data I reviewed from BMW literature said the auto and manual had the same road speed final drive ratio, mine did not.
 
GuidoK said:
To get the sensation of going fast at lower speeds you'd need an old car with old tyres. Less grip, less roadholding. Maybe more noise from the engine/suspension etc.
The fastest car is indeed not always the most fun car. The most fun cars are probably somehwere in their lifespan nicknamed widowmaker or something like that :lol:
This is why I loved my TVR Cerbera 4.5 so much because it was so involving to drive and you had to respect it because it had around 350bhp per tonne and it didn't have the most accomplished chassis either and zero traction aids...so now that I drive auto's I just see them as something for the old or lazy! :D

I appreciate the ease of an auto and the paddles I never seem to use but what it has done is make me realise that if you want to have fun and enjoy a car it needs to have three pedals and a stick :thumbsup: :driving:
 
Garvin said:
1. Kick down. But if the box needs to select a couple of gears lower there is a definite perceivable delay whilst it sorts itself out before 'engaging'.
Not noticed this one one mine when doing a kick down change in manual mode, never gone near kick down in either drive or spot. As you have to be at WOT for the block shift to happen it can be brutal & harsh block change if you're in 6th or 7th to 2nd or 3rd.

2. Manually flick the paddles. This is OK but if you change down and delay hitting the 'loud pedal' whilst you look for the correct opportunity to execute the overtake it can have reverted from 'manual' back to 'auto' and have changed back up a couple of gears. If you wait for the overtake opportunity before flicking the paddles then there can be a discernible delay - not very much but it is noticeable.
On mine the delay is 10 seconds before revering back to auto.

It's all about learning to drive a DCT. My most often used option is No 4. On approaching a slower vehicle i just put the box in 'sport' preparing for the overtake and then nail the manoeuvre when the opportunity becomes available. Afterwards the box can be put back into normal 'auto' mode to continue the 'cruise'.
Absolutely, it also depends on how you drive as well. I tend to use the engine in sport & the box in manual most of the time. When going for an open-road overtake I drop 1 gear holding a good distance back. As my gap reveals its self I floor it passed the kick down point, pull onto the opposite side of the road then tap the down paddle.
 
To be perfectly honest, when wantingto overtake just hit the loud pedal and do it. Usually insport and never had to worry about what gear the car is in it just does what is asked of it and goes
 
I recently agreed a deal on a 2014 Z4 20i M Sport automatic, which I collect on Saturday. I can't wait to get behind the wheel again! At the dealership they had two Z4s that I was planning to choose between, the automatic which I'm buying and a 20i manual. I had a test drive in the manual first and I didn't like it. The range of motion of the clutch pedal felt ridiculously long and in order to be able to depress it fully I had to move the seat closer to the wheel than I'd like, which had the side effect of me being awkwardly placed to change gear comfortably. I'm not sure whether I just wasn't set up properly in terms of seating position or whether I'm too used to my current car after 7 years (2005 Celica), but I didn't like it and would not have purchased that car.

I then jumped into the automatic and it was great. None of the above mentioned problems to deal with and it seemed to me that it was still very enjoyable to drive. I'll have a better idea of how much fun it can be once I can take it out on my own. I'm hoping it doesn't disappoint :)
 
You'll love it Mark, I went for a 20i Msport auto after 2 manual E89s. Absolutely love the 8 speed auto box, best option to go for.
 
It all probably depends on what you want from your Z4!

I was looking for the purity of a naturally-aspirated straight 6 with the stiffest body-shell so bought a manual E86 - I might have considered an automatic if I was doing stop-start city driving in a 530d or similar.......but then I wouldn't have bought a Z4 for that! :lol:
 
I test drove manuel & dct M4 vert over the last few weeks. Dct wins hands down for me,but we all have different opions. I love the dct in the zed & also auto box in 640d. After coming from the manual box in my old e86 maybe that's why I love the auto/dct,horrible gearbox. 1st & 2nd are horrendous. I hear lots of people saying auto/dct are rubbish & bet the majority have never driven one lol horses for courses & we are all different. Ps buy the auto lol :D
 
Auto box technology has come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 or so years, and even more so recently. A lot of people have the old image of slow changes and them sounding like slipping clutches when accelerating away, this is no longer the case.

A modern auto can change gear MUCH faster than a human, with such a small break in acceleration that it really is seamless, that's why auto cars are now out accelerating their manual counterparts in pretty much every scenario. Plus a moderna auto can go from 8th gear to 2nd in the blink of an eyelid, meaning the power is always instantly available. Coupled with much more common turbocharged engines, it also means no drop in boost whilst changing gear.

I do think people are actually a bit scared of autos these days, fearing for reliability and repair costs, but modern ones are pretty bulletproof as long as they are maintained correctly.

Our XC90 is approaching a quarter of a million miles on it's original engine and box, and despite Volvo saying the boxes are "sealed for life" it's had several full flush and oil changes in my ownership. Our Touran DSG is also coming up to 190,000 miles, and again has been faultless, but maintained correctly. The DSG box in it is amazing and changes really are instant.

With performance cars, there is also the added benefit of launch control, taking the guesswork out of quick starts and getting maximum traction off the line. Have driven a couple of GTR's and the launch control is like being shot into space!

I really think Ford has missed a vital sales stream by making the new RS manual only, as shown in several videos I have watched, one where it was put up against an R32 and an S3, you could actually see the others gaining on the RS every time the driver had to change gear.

Mike
 
Ducklakeview said:
I really think Ford has missed a vital sales stream by making the new RS manual only, as shown in several videos I have watched, one where it was put up against an R32 and an S3, you could actually see the others gaining on the RS every time the driver had to change gear.

Mike

What I've read is that they dont offer an automatic or DCT from a weight issue. Those boxes are way heavier (often overlooked), and putting all that weight in front of the front axle (it is a transverse mounted engine) would result in more understeer.
So it's an handling issue. Not something that would show in a direct sprint.
Maybe that option still comes in the future for those who value handling less (think people who buy audi's in the first place :lol: :fuelfire:).
They have a dual clutch transmission available in the normal focus. Maybe it's easy to incorporate.
 
KERMIT1970 said:
I test drove manuel & dct M4 vert over the last few weeks. Dct wins hands down for me,but we all have different opions. I love the dct in the zed & also auto box in 640d. After coming from the manual box in my old e86 maybe that's why I love the auto/dct,horrible gearbox. 1st & 2nd are horrendous. I hear lots of people saying auto/dct are rubbish & bet the majority have never driven one lol horses for courses & we are all different. Ps buy the auto lol :D

This^^ surely you buy a car for the purpose. Sports car = manual box, exciting engine, sharp handling and as much challenge as you can deal with. To cruise around in, get anything larger with comfort seats, auto box, auto wipers etc. Baffles me when people buy a single car which they want to be everything? Just have two opposite excellent cars that deliver on their requirements, rather than one in the middle that is not really enough of anything to make you feel like you have everything you want.. like a passat :fuelfire:
 
KERMIT1970 said:
I test drove manuel & dct M4 vert over the last few weeks. Dct wins hands down for me,but we all have different opions. I love the dct in the zed & also auto box in 640d. After coming from the manual box in my old e86 maybe that's why I love the auto/dct,horrible gearbox. 1st & 2nd are horrendous. I hear lots of people saying auto/dct are rubbish & bet the majority have never driven one lol horses for courses & we are all different. Ps buy the auto lol :D
Regards BMW's manual gearbox I can see why there has been a massive shift to Auto/DCT to be fair, I also didn't like 1st to 2nd in my Z4M and the manual gearbox in my E92 M3 wasn't that great either.

I also recently test drove the M4 vert and I thought the DCT was really good and the 8 speed auto is pretty impressive too, I do have a very strong bias to a manual gearbox but with BMW's the manual isn't good enough so most opt for the two pedal variant for good reason.
 
I also recently test drove the M4 vert and I thought the DCT was really good and the 8 speed auto is pretty impressive too, I do have a very strong bias to a manual gearbox but with BMW's the manual isn't good enough so most opt for the two pedal variant for good reason.[/quote]

Dct would suit me Lee, manual is better than the old e85/86 box but dct is fantastic.ive mastered mine in the zed so it was fun. Had the M4 dct for a week so used it in all my driving styles. Enjoyed it so much I've specced one :D just waiting on figures coming back. Saying that still love the 35is. It's all about the money.
 
KERMIT1970 said:
Dct would suit me Lee, manual is better than the old e85/86 box but dct is fantastic.ive mastered mine in the zed so it was fun. Had the M4 dct for a week so used it in all my driving styles. Enjoyed it so much I've specced one :D just waiting on figures coming back. Saying that still love the 35is. It's all about the money.
Exciting times ahead possibly then buddy :thumbsup:

I was very impressed with the M4 when I drove it and the noise it made with the roof down had me hooked :D
 
LeeZ4MR said:
KERMIT1970 said:
Dct would suit me Lee, manual is better than the old e85/86 box but dct is fantastic.ive mastered mine in the zed so it was fun. Had the M4 dct for a week so used it in all my driving styles. Enjoyed it so much I've specced one :D just waiting on figures coming back. Saying that still love the 35is. It's all about the money.
Exciting times ahead possibly then buddy :thumbsup:

I was very impressed with the M4 when I drove it and the noise it made with the roof down had me hooked :D

I've specced the performance exhaust, my son recorded one that was going out a few weeks ago ! Epic :D should grow up lol
 
KERMIT1970 said:
LeeZ4MR said:
KERMIT1970 said:
Dct would suit me Lee, manual is better than the old e85/86 box but dct is fantastic.ive mastered mine in the zed so it was fun. Had the M4 dct for a week so used it in all my driving styles. Enjoyed it so much I've specced one :D just waiting on figures coming back. Saying that still love the 35is. It's all about the money.
Exciting times ahead possibly then buddy :thumbsup:

I was very impressed with the M4 when I drove it and the noise it made with the roof down had me hooked :D

I've specced the performance exhaust, my son recorded one that was going out a few weeks ago ! Epic :D should grow up lol
Awesome and that will sound mint 8)

I don't think we ever grow up when it comes to cars :D
 
Funny, a girl I was dating purchased the Z4 with the paddles and I did not like the car. The ride was choppy (RFTs) like a hard edged sports car yet with the paddles/automatic it was like a faux luxury sports car. The manual gearbox is SO MUCH BETTER that it TOTALLY changes the character of the car. With a stick the Z4 is a legit traditional sports car like old Ferraris. On the other hand, today's Ferraris will blow the doors off the BMW. But with a manual gearbox the Z4 has what the modern Ferraris lack....an intimate driving experience. I would take a Mercedes over a Z4 with paddles.....but a Z4 with a twin turbo 6 cylinder motor and a manual gearbox is a uniquely engaging automobile. It really is the affordable Z8. It's not as fun as my Z8 but she's a great second fiddle.
 
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