Kolo Heights
Member
Wow talk about sabotaging a person's thread. Right to raise your concerns but should of done privately initially, IMHO.
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Crikey, this seems to have escalated since I last looked at the original ad. In the name of free speech and the spirit of forums I thought I'd put my two pence in as well.
Reading through the thread, it seems as though the original ad was placed in the right way, just maybe not with exactly the right emphasis for everyone. If I was looking at this ad looking to buy a car then I'd hope I'd have the credits available upstairs to read it was a Cat D and judge a response, call, visit etc accordingly. If like the majority of people, the thought of a Cat D just naturally didn't feel right then I wouldn't call. If I was prepared to take a punt then I would. Thats when price would be talked about and a potential deal could be struck.
I'd also advise anybody looking to buy a car through a forum to use the username history to check back story. You'll find out a hell of a lot on the history, however what it doesn't tell you sometimes are the finer details and backstory. In the defence of Torino I think he's been pretty upfront about the damage but there's clearly more to talk about if you're actually interested in buying the car.
As for CJ I'm of the opinion that he's merely doing his job as moderator and trying to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Last time I looked there was no forum rule that said you couldn't question a posting and as we've all seen over time - me included in my relatively short Z4F life - you do get the odd joker trying to sell a dog or get you to ship your pride and joy to some Chilean rain forest to shoot an ad. I think Torino got beaten up a little in the thread when a PM could have worked just as well, but hindsight is a wonderful thing that alas eludes even the most mentally able of us
So, IMHO - good luck with the sale Torino. I hope you find a fellow Torino that wants to take the girl off your hands. And CJ - lets keep freedom of speech alive and well on this forum.
Now please, for the love of all things Bavarian, please kiss and make up. It's still winter for gods sake and the clocks don't go forward for another month or so!
Reading through the thread, it seems as though the original ad was placed in the right way, just maybe not with exactly the right emphasis for everyone. If I was looking at this ad looking to buy a car then I'd hope I'd have the credits available upstairs to read it was a Cat D and judge a response, call, visit etc accordingly. If like the majority of people, the thought of a Cat D just naturally didn't feel right then I wouldn't call. If I was prepared to take a punt then I would. Thats when price would be talked about and a potential deal could be struck.
I'd also advise anybody looking to buy a car through a forum to use the username history to check back story. You'll find out a hell of a lot on the history, however what it doesn't tell you sometimes are the finer details and backstory. In the defence of Torino I think he's been pretty upfront about the damage but there's clearly more to talk about if you're actually interested in buying the car.
As for CJ I'm of the opinion that he's merely doing his job as moderator and trying to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Last time I looked there was no forum rule that said you couldn't question a posting and as we've all seen over time - me included in my relatively short Z4F life - you do get the odd joker trying to sell a dog or get you to ship your pride and joy to some Chilean rain forest to shoot an ad. I think Torino got beaten up a little in the thread when a PM could have worked just as well, but hindsight is a wonderful thing that alas eludes even the most mentally able of us
So, IMHO - good luck with the sale Torino. I hope you find a fellow Torino that wants to take the girl off your hands. And CJ - lets keep freedom of speech alive and well on this forum.
Now please, for the love of all things Bavarian, please kiss and make up. It's still winter for gods sake and the clocks don't go forward for another month or so!
This is probably the one aspect of z4-forum that really disappoints me 
The guy's put up a for sale thread. He's mentioned it's a Cat D quite clearly IMO. The onus has to be on the buyer to do the research on ANY car they're buying. Legally Torino's done nothing. Morally I don't think he's done anything wrong either as he's mentioned the Cat D aspect. I don't think he has to go into every exact nut and bolt that was replaced. Yes, I'd be more impressed if he had done this as it would show ultimately more transparency/honesty, but that's no reason to shoot him down in flames. It's easy enough for a any buyer worth their salt to check a seller's previous posting history, or do the correct checks on the car (HPI, visual, mechanical inspection, etc).
I HATE all this "it's not worth that" comments being posted on other folk's for sale threads. My thoughts are that if you've got comments to make, by all means make them but do it via PM.
I'VE SUGGESTED IT BEFORE AND I'LL SUGGEST IT AGAIN (THIS TIME IN BOLD...): ONCE A FOR SALE THREAD IS POSTED, THE THREAD SHOULD THEN BE LOCKED WITH ONLY THE ORIGINAL POSTER ABLE TO EDIT IT. THIS STOPS NEEDLESS CRAP/ARGUEMENTS DEVELOPING AS WELL AS STOPPING NEEDLESS BUMPING OF FOR SALE THREADS.
This is just my own opinion. I'm not a moderator (although I have been on other forums) but I am a regular user of this forum and hope my opinions are at least valued, slightly. This works well on other forums, and I hate to see this happeneing to z4-forum
Good luck with the sale Torino
The guy's put up a for sale thread. He's mentioned it's a Cat D quite clearly IMO. The onus has to be on the buyer to do the research on ANY car they're buying. Legally Torino's done nothing. Morally I don't think he's done anything wrong either as he's mentioned the Cat D aspect. I don't think he has to go into every exact nut and bolt that was replaced. Yes, I'd be more impressed if he had done this as it would show ultimately more transparency/honesty, but that's no reason to shoot him down in flames. It's easy enough for a any buyer worth their salt to check a seller's previous posting history, or do the correct checks on the car (HPI, visual, mechanical inspection, etc).
I HATE all this "it's not worth that" comments being posted on other folk's for sale threads. My thoughts are that if you've got comments to make, by all means make them but do it via PM.
I'VE SUGGESTED IT BEFORE AND I'LL SUGGEST IT AGAIN (THIS TIME IN BOLD...): ONCE A FOR SALE THREAD IS POSTED, THE THREAD SHOULD THEN BE LOCKED WITH ONLY THE ORIGINAL POSTER ABLE TO EDIT IT. THIS STOPS NEEDLESS CRAP/ARGUEMENTS DEVELOPING AS WELL AS STOPPING NEEDLESS BUMPING OF FOR SALE THREADS.
This is just my own opinion. I'm not a moderator (although I have been on other forums) but I am a regular user of this forum and hope my opinions are at least valued, slightly
. This works well on other forums, and I hate to see this happeneing to z4-forum Good luck with the sale Torino
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Anonymous
Guest
Thanks for the comments, I think with a bit of tact this could've been a useful and valid criticism rather than a blatant sabotage of a member. It's not like i'm a dodgy used car salesman who's first post is a for sale thread!
I've had a lot of interest and a few sensible offers (obviously not through this club) but tbh i'm thinking i'll keep her till the summer now and try again, though once that yellow things back out in the sky it may make it a bit hard to part with :lol:
I don't think anyone looking at a car for sale would buy it without satisfying themselves they are happy with the value and condition of a car, a lot of whats posted has been speculation and opinion, which is fine if done properly, but it's portrayed me in a bad light.....'in my opinion' and ruined my reputation.
cj10jeeper, just one point, that Z4 3.0 you posted was located 326 miles away from here, very few people in the essex/london area would be willing to travel that far, i don't know how much you buy/sell cars, but price does vary a lot around the country, and in this sort of area, you're looking at mid-high 7k's at least.
As for my opinion on the price/value, I honestly feel that it's pretty good.
Everybody who buys seconhand cars will try to knock you down at least 10% if not more, so for £6750-7k it aint bad.....in my opinion. But hey, everyone feels diferently.
Either way, I wont be about here any more, childish i know, but I have far more important things to worry about.
Regards to all and hopefully this tread will at least be useful for any other enthusiasts wanting to sell there car.
I've had a lot of interest and a few sensible offers (obviously not through this club) but tbh i'm thinking i'll keep her till the summer now and try again, though once that yellow things back out in the sky it may make it a bit hard to part with :lol:
I don't think anyone looking at a car for sale would buy it without satisfying themselves they are happy with the value and condition of a car, a lot of whats posted has been speculation and opinion, which is fine if done properly, but it's portrayed me in a bad light.....'in my opinion' and ruined my reputation.
cj10jeeper, just one point, that Z4 3.0 you posted was located 326 miles away from here, very few people in the essex/london area would be willing to travel that far, i don't know how much you buy/sell cars, but price does vary a lot around the country, and in this sort of area, you're looking at mid-high 7k's at least.
As for my opinion on the price/value, I honestly feel that it's pretty good.
Everybody who buys seconhand cars will try to knock you down at least 10% if not more, so for £6750-7k it aint bad.....in my opinion. But hey, everyone feels diferently.
Either way, I wont be about here any more, childish i know, but I have far more important things to worry about.
Regards to all and hopefully this tread will at least be useful for any other enthusiasts wanting to sell there car.
I think we sometimes need to let the mods get on with their roles , the description for sale of this car on pistonheads still down plays the extent of the damage to some tune -" It basically required a new n/s head lamp, n/s wing " - the damage from the photos posted at the time that are now deleted showed far more extensive damage to bonnet .
How would you all feel if you were a new member on this great site purchased a car and then at a later date went through the history of the car and found photos of the car in a state where the damage is greater than advertised on the forum.
How would you all feel if you were a new member on this great site purchased a car and then at a later date went through the history of the car and found photos of the car in a state where the damage is greater than advertised on the forum.
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Anonymous
Guest
Kryton said:
Sorry, just one more rant
re: kryton, forgot to mention, where did i say i'm trying to fool people about optional extras? as others have said, it was a bit of a generic ad, and as i said IMO it is 'high factory spec' (not 'loads of optional extra's'), thats some pretty high spec......you don't get this many gadgets on most cars, and certainly not on smaller engine.
I think this really is YOUR opinion, i do wish people on forums would learn to stop picking holes in peoples threads.
You need to give people buying a car credit that they'll look over what there buying.
At the end of the day it was very light damage, to the untrained eye can look worse than it is.
I can run through with the potential new owner whats been done. Have a look at anyone else selling a car with a CAT D/C history and they'll simply say 'registered CAT D, don't know anything about it, looks ok to me.......'
Just waiting for someone to go through and starting picking up spelling/grammar errors now to really nit pick
With all respect Rob, I think there has to be a bit of responsibility on any buyer to find that information before making a purchase. By law the responsibility lies on the buyer to ask, not the seller to disclose. I touched on the morality of that in my earlier post and I still think in this case Torino appeared to be upfront about this being cat D.ZermattV said:
To give an example:
- when I was buying my Z4, I'd seen the advert on here by member "javarke" although it was also on PH
- I then searched their previous posts AND googled that username which brought up their posts on other car forums
- I then read through their posts on other forums to get a clearer picture of them and what sort of life this car had led. Stalker-like behaviour perhaps, but IMO not out of place with a car purchase.
- I wouldn't have expected the seller to disclose all of that to me, the onus was on me
Just to add, I didn't see the original damage photos so can't comment on the full accuracy of Torino's advert, but I stand by my points made above
I agree with you a11y it is the buyers responsibility and I've done similar to yourself when I've purchased in the past in checking out a car's history on a forum .... if it hasn't vanished a month before the sale as I've seen happen.
I agree with you that for sale posts should be locked.... but not for mods... which i guess is my main point it was suggested to an OP to change his advert by a mod which he chose not to do.
I agree with you that for sale posts should be locked.... but not for mods... which i guess is my main point it was suggested to an OP to change his advert by a mod which he chose not to do.
Torino good luck with your sale, and don't give it away as long it's cheeper then other cars for same spec your sell it . You have to remember not every one has lots of cash to spend on a car of there dreams so priced well it shouldn't be a problem . If it's any consolation I don't think you done anything wrong either as explaned much better then I could by others . If you are in London and keeping your car come along to the London meet and let's put all this behind us and lessons to be learned
doofus4000
Active member
a11y I agree totolly with, this guys chances of selling his car have dramatically reduced due to all this thread crapping. I think it is only fair that the moderator deletes all posts apart from the sellers description - people who are intrested in buying should be the only ones to post and I think this should go for all for sale threads - yes I am one of them people as I am posting without the intrest of buying but I am trying to stick up for this guy!
doofus4000
Active member
easty027 said:
lmao
The thread has been ruined a bit, but ultimately this is an enthusiast site, and we all want other owners and prospective owners to have the best buying/ownership experience going.
You can't blame people for being a bit defensive about what they see going on.
On Autotrader, or Pistonheads, fine, but this is THE Z4 forum, and so to have questionable Z4's on the for sale list is pretty naff.
The advert spec list reads like a generic trade advert. It could be made much more informative, and help buyers here out with more info and pics of what the damage was and what was done (imo)
We should be helping out buyers that visit this site, telling them what they SHOULD be asking to see, or know when looking at cars, so bringing up the history of this car and finding out things about it IS in the remit of this site imo...
If the for sale section becomes non-discussion based, it'll just fill up with crap adverts, people can't ask questions for the benefit of others, etc etc...
If you have a nice car, and advertise it well, you have nothing to worry about, so what is the problem. It assures good adverts, honest adverts, and happy users of our forums classified section!
All imo.
Dave
You can't blame people for being a bit defensive about what they see going on.
On Autotrader, or Pistonheads, fine, but this is THE Z4 forum, and so to have questionable Z4's on the for sale list is pretty naff.
The advert spec list reads like a generic trade advert. It could be made much more informative, and help buyers here out with more info and pics of what the damage was and what was done (imo)
We should be helping out buyers that visit this site, telling them what they SHOULD be asking to see, or know when looking at cars, so bringing up the history of this car and finding out things about it IS in the remit of this site imo...
If the for sale section becomes non-discussion based, it'll just fill up with crap adverts, people can't ask questions for the benefit of others, etc etc...
If you have a nice car, and advertise it well, you have nothing to worry about, so what is the problem. It assures good adverts, honest adverts, and happy users of our forums classified section!
All imo.
Dave
a11y said:This is probably the one aspect of z4-forum that really disappoints me
The guy's put up a for sale thread. He's mentioned it's a Cat D quite clearly IMO. The onus has to be on the buyer to do the research on ANY car they're buying. Legally Torino's done nothing. Morally I don't think he's done anything wrong either as he's mentioned the Cat D aspect. I don't think he has to go into every exact nut and bolt that was replaced. Yes, I'd be more impressed if he had done this as it would show ultimately more transparency/honesty, but that's no reason to shoot him down in flames. It's easy enough for a any buyer worth their salt to check a seller's previous posting history, or do the correct checks on the car (HPI, visual, mechanical inspection, etc).
I HATE all this "it's not worth that" comments being posted on other folk's for sale threads. My thoughts are that if you've got comments to make, by all means make them but do it via PM.
I'VE SUGGESTED IT BEFORE AND I'LL SUGGEST IT AGAIN (THIS TIME IN BOLD...): ONCE A FOR SALE THREAD IS POSTED, THE THREAD SHOULD THEN BE LOCKED WITH ONLY THE ORIGINAL POSTER ABLE TO EDIT IT. THIS STOPS NEEDLESS CRAP/ARGUEMENTS DEVELOPING AS WELL AS STOPPING NEEDLESS BUMPING OF FOR SALE THREADS.
This is just my own opinion. I'm not a moderator (although I have been on other forums) but I am a regular user of this forum and hope my opinions are at least valued, slightly
Good luck with the sale Torino
Agree, they did it on The TT Forum and it worked a treat.
Stopped all the annoying bumping that goes on.
DPG said:a11y said:This is probably the one aspect of z4-forum that really disappoints me
The guy's put up a for sale thread. He's mentioned it's a Cat D quite clearly IMO. The onus has to be on the buyer to do the research on ANY car they're buying. Legally Torino's done nothing. Morally I don't think he's done anything wrong either as he's mentioned the Cat D aspect. I don't think he has to go into every exact nut and bolt that was replaced. Yes, I'd be more impressed if he had done this as it would show ultimately more transparency/honesty, but that's no reason to shoot him down in flames. It's easy enough for a any buyer worth their salt to check a seller's previous posting history, or do the correct checks on the car (HPI, visual, mechanical inspection, etc).
I HATE all this "it's not worth that" comments being posted on other folk's for sale threads. My thoughts are that if you've got comments to make, by all means make them but do it via PM.
I'VE SUGGESTED IT BEFORE AND I'LL SUGGEST IT AGAIN (THIS TIME IN BOLD...): ONCE A FOR SALE THREAD IS POSTED, THE THREAD SHOULD THEN BE LOCKED WITH ONLY THE ORIGINAL POSTER ABLE TO EDIT IT. THIS STOPS NEEDLESS CRAP/ARGUEMENTS DEVELOPING AS WELL AS STOPPING NEEDLESS BUMPING OF FOR SALE THREADS.
This is just my own opinion. I'm not a moderator (although I have been on other forums) but I am a regular user of this forum and hope my opinions are at least valued, slightly
Good luck with the sale Torino
Agree, they did it on The TT Forum and it worked a treat.
Stopped all the annoying bumping that goes on.
I totally disagree.
Plenty of people put up really crappy adverts, and other people asking questions and/or posting information for them about their car, is really useful for others.
If every advert is simply the sum of the original author, then they will by and large be generally worse adverts for it.
When stuff goes wrong, yes it's bad, but how many times has it gone bad here over the years, once or twice?!
Locking these threads down will just put me right off even bothering to use these classifieds. It's ignorant, stupid, and excessively controlling to do that.
Forums self-moderate, and we have admins to moderate for us when it goes a bit wrong.
Ultimately the classifieds are discussion threads. If I want to just look at adverts, I'll go on Pistonheads.
How many times does having a discussion HELP sell a car, or really help an owner out with their advert... quite often I'd expect.
To sum up, lock it, and I won't even bother looking in it, because it'll just be autotrader on our lovely friendly forum. Not nice.
Dave
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Anonymous
Guest
Good post Mr Whippy, I think we should be able to point out when an advert is being economical with the truth etc
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