toplad said:
Guess who's in the market for a New car at knock down price??
Toplad,
This is not the case: I'm in the market to buy a Z4 MC at the RIGHT price.
It seems to me that most sellers of Z4 MCs think that their 5 or 6 year old cars with an annual average mileage of around £10k miles per year should be thought of as "collectors cars" just because there are limited numbers of RHD Z4 MCs and as such, think that their cars should buck the trend for depreciation of secondhand cars. However, if those cars continue to be used in the same way for another 5 years, then they will all be 100k+ mileage cars: these are NOT collectors cars, they are HIGH mileage USED cars and in a totally unsentimental used-car market, the fact that they are Z4 MC doesn't make them any different to any other marque of BMW. The overwhelming majority of used cars depreciate until they are scapped: they always have and they always will.
In comparison, take a look at a recognised collectors' car, such as the E-Type Jags for sale on Pistonheads:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=290 ALL of those iconic cars are aged between 37 and 51 years old, yet look at the mileage they've recorded in those years! Many of them have total mileages the same, or less than, many of the 5 year old Z4 MCs presently for sale, and some have considerably less and been "mothballed" from their first purchase. Therefore, if a buyer wanted to buy a 5 year old Z4 MC with 60k miles on the clock, which has spent all its time outside in all weathers, as a collectors car, this would mean that the buyer would not be able to drive it for the next 30 odd years or more in order for it to be considered as a relatively low-mileage car in years to come! Why would any buyer want to do that and pay a premium price for the doubtful privilege?
When you buy a car like the Z4 MC, the owners are faced with a very simple choice, either wrap it up in cotton wool from the start and consider it as a very long-term speculative investment, which may, or may not, prove worthwhile, or, drive it and enjoy it and be happy to suffer the depreciation as the cost of enjoyment. If I want to buy a Z4 MC as a potential future "classic car", I'll be looking for one of those ultra-low mileage garage queens and I'll pay the present owner an over-the-odds premium price for it, but that seller would still suffer from depreciation loss. It appears to me that most of the owners of the Z4 MCs presently advertised want it both ways: they want to have had the pleasure of driving their cars whilst piling on the miles but then sell them at collectors' car prices! If the owner hasn't treated their car as "special" by putting it on a limited mileage insurance policy, keeping it under wraps in a heated garage, why should the next buyer think it's so special?
Likewise, so-called "enthusiasts" seem to think that their cars are worth more just because their cars are polished and well-maintained. I am also an enthusiast, and I drive like an enthusiast too, and enthusiasts get low mpgs because we spend more time at high revs, our cars wear out tyres, brakes etc and we do trackdays and generally push our cars harder and cause more wear and tear than most non-enthusiasts! Therefore, most enthusiasts are deluding themselves in believing that their cars have been cherished, when they really mean that they've been "enjoyed" and then expect premium prices when they want to sell them.
dgm said earlier in this thread:
"I paid £12k under list for a 10 month old car in 2007 and probably still paid over the odds for it. This means that the entire UK stock of Z4MCs is devalued from the original £44k selling price, let's say to a new price of around £36k, so those who paid the highest price will suffer depreciation the most - that's a simple fact of economic life. As it is, as
dgm said, many of the original owners obtained their "New car at knock down price", and so unless owners pass this discount on, throughout the life of the car to new owners then, IMO, they are being greedy.
Glass's guide or other trade "book prices" are the UK's "standard" UK used-car prices which are recognised by dealers, the insurance industry and the Inland Revenue etc. If a seller thinks his car is worth more than those prices, then he is at liberty to ASK whatever he wants, but what he will actually GET is altogether different. All that I have been attempting to do is make the case for sellers to be "realistic" in setting their asking prices in the present difficult economic climate, because if they NEED to sell and they get it wrong, their fate will be that they'll end up getting rock-bottom trade-in price and then they'll see their P&J on a dealers forecourt for their original asking price, or more!
Now, if you were a seller, would you:
a.) set a high asking price and discover you can't get a buyer?
b.) set a realistic asking price knowing that a fellow enthusiast would obtain what you think is a "bargain"
c.) suffer an even greater financial loss by selling your car to a dealer, just to stop any enthusiasts from buying your car as a "bargain"?
As it happens, I have set myself no limit as to what I will eventually pay, but when I see the "right" car for me at what I consider to be the right price, I will happily give the present owner my cash.
Always happy to open debates and be in a minority of one. 
If I've thrown a few unusual points into a very old debate as food for thought, then fair enough.