Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells

[MrPT]

It won't be practical for most people, but having your journals widened to accept a larger (off the peg) bearing shell and rod end is an interesting option; particularly if your crank can't be polished and/or there is a fair bit of collateral engine damage. Then you will only have cam follower failure to worry about.

[ref]mmm-five[/ref], that is crappy luck and I hope you get things sorted soon, but fair play for being considerate of your friend's business.

 

[tomscott]

Hope your friend recovers soon and continues to keep well avoiding covid.
It’s good you got the correct engine and one of low mileage. Will you change the shells before it’s fitted?
I doubt there are many other Zeds that have had three engines (except a few race cars)!

Yes. It's going to have an I2 and shells done before it goes in.

Did consider cams, carbon CSL-style airbox & tune - but the cost was getting ridiculous, so will keep it standard for now.

Hopefully this 3rd engine will last as long the 2nd (140k), rather than the 1st (23k)

At this stage why not try and find another one? Do some preventative and enjoy? that being said...

Ive got quite a few issues with mine nothing like this but it doesn't half annoy me, got hesitation which I need to get sorted, not too bad but its there and annoys me. Lots of niggly little jobs, xenon washer pipe is cracked pisses fluid everywhere, drivers window regulator failed last week, hand break is pretty much non existent, passenger side air duct is cracked, exhaust carriers need replacing, has a bulb warning light yet all lights are working, needs an insII, new tyres, rear disks and pads, just taxed and insured it. Probably be 5k by the time I feel like its road worthy without doing any of the things I want with it. Paintwork is poor, would like to refresh suspension its 14 years old and done 67k... probably should have the Vanos serviced and the bearings/engine/gearbox mounts changed etc Turing into a bit of a money pit.

Had a scare last week the whole steering wrack was making an awful noise scraping creaking awful. Don't know how but the heat shield was catching on the U joint... thankfully 5 seconds rather than 2k for a new steering rack.

Been trying to get it into Darren Wood but they are so back logged they are struggling to get me in anytime soon.

The problem with owning old cars never ending!

 

[mmm-five]

At this stage why not try and find another one? Do some preventative and enjoy? that being said...

It is another engine from a 40k mile Z4M.

My old engine will be used for another project (in my mate's project e46 Touring)

Was considering rebuilding it and upgrading it, but then decided on a simpler/quicker :lol: route of a replacement engine!

 

[tomscott]

At this stage why not try and find another one? Do some preventative and enjoy? that being said...

It is another engine from a 40k mile Z4M.

My old engine will be used for another project (in my mate's project e46 Touring)

Was considering rebuilding it and upgrading it, but then decided on a simpler/quicker :lol: route of a replacement engine!

Fair enough

An E46 touring with an M3 drivetrain would be probably in my top 5 cars... would be such a great combo why BMW dont make more fast tourings ive no idea.

Do you watch roadkill on Motortrend? (if not def worth a watch basically bringing American muscle out of junkyards and doing ridiculous engine swap with stupid parts the cars dont deserve)

Would love someone to do a channel like that for german cars epic BMW engine swaps into cars they absolutely should have belonged in. I think a Z4M coupe with an S65 and supercharger would be a riot or a S85 de-catted with a manual trans in a Z4M coupe... sound like an old F1 car. An e89 with a S65 would also be high on my list

Regardless of whether they would be good I think it would be cool.

 

[mmm-five]

An E46 touring with an M3 drivetrain would be probably in my top 5 cars... would be such a great combo why BMW dont make more fast tourings ive no idea.

If the timelines are anything like my Z4MC, then he won't have it done until about 2030.

Do you watch roadkill on Motortrend? (if not def worth a watch basically bringing American muscle out of junkyards and doing ridiculous engine swap with stupid parts the cars dont deserve)

Would love someone to do a channel like that for german cars epic BMW engine swaps into cars they absolutely should have belonged in. I think a Z4M coupe with an S65 and supercharger would be a riot or a S85 de-catted with a manual trans in a Z4M coupe... sound like an old F1 car. An e89 with a S65 would also be high on my list

Regardless of whether they would be good I think it would be cool.

I used to watch similar stuff, but it kept giving me ideas that I simply could not afford.

My (pre-bearing failure) supercharger idea was nixed once the actual cost of everything was added up. The 500bhp kit looks affordable...until you start to add everything else into the build to make it properly usable & reliable. I think it was over £12k on essentials, before nice-to-haves were considered.

I will not have a car that I can't use as a daily without worrying about it, so nothing highly stressed or prone to more borkage than an S54 (so no S65 or S85). I'd probably go for a crate LS V8. But when you start spending stupid money you realise you might as well just buy an F10 M5/E63/RS6.

 

[Ed Doe]

If its of any interest (I will do a proper thread when I get to the bottom of the issue) my bottom end was inspected last week....... My crank was perfect with no scoring or wear, and bearings were slightly worn but perfectly in tolerance for bmw - so it wasn't a big end failure.... Top end inspection has revealed a flattened follower and slightly scored corresponding cam lobe, but shimming the follower right up hasn't removed the knocking noise. Still as yet undiagnosed, so causing me a few headaches!

 

[MrPT]

If its of any interest (I will do a proper thread when I get to the bottom of the issue) my bottom end was inspected last week....... My crank was perfect with no scoring or wear, and bearings were slightly worn but perfectly in tolerance for bmw - so it wasn't a big end failure.... Top end inspection has revealed a flattened follower and slightly scored corresponding cam lobe, but shimming the follower right up hasn't removed the knocking noise. Still as yet undiagnosed, so causing me a few headaches!

That’s interesting. I would have thought a visibly flattened follower would “skip” on its lobe, regardless of clearance.

It will need to be replaced, either way, because the hardened coating will have worn through (and the main body of the follower is like cheese in comparison, apparently). Did you already have higher lift cams or is this an opportunity that might now present itself?

 

[Thrustyjust]

Well the Honda S2000 never suffered engine issues and that use to rev to almost 9k. I believe Honda used to say and advertise the fact that they never had a single engine fail below 100k miles. Not too sure how accurate that was but it was a terrific engine in its day for a 2 litre non turbo.

Google search tells me otherwise.

The 100k thing is a vtec failure, lots of engines gone pop before then, mostly due to people skimping on maintenance and fuel choice

Most failures were caused by people not checking the oil , as vtec does like a little at a time. The F20c is for some unknown reason a bugger to read and weirdly can read different across the dipstick from one side to the other ! I had one in a Westfield. The other reason was that they didnt come with any baffling in the sump , so a combination of dumped clutches and low oil kills any engine pretty quickly.
If I had an S54 engine , then it is a pretty highly tuned engine , to the point of race design, then 70k miles on a set of shells is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I could have bought an MC at the time and its lovely car , but certain M Tax bills and its foibles made me go for the 3.0i Coupe. Just get them changed Iain for peace of mind. You will feel a lot more confident in the car and take that worry out the equation every time you start it.

 

[Mr Tidy]

Just get them changed Iain for peace of mind. You will feel a lot more confident in the car and take that worry out the equation every time you start it.

Thanks, that looks like what I'll be doing!

Ross just changed a set in a 74K miler last week and most were showing copper. As my car has done 77K I've asked him for a quote!

To tomscott I've got a pair of headlamp washer pipes I don't need - just not the one from the reservoir to the "T" piece - PM me if you'd be interested.

 

[GuidoK]

It won't be practical for most people, but having your journals widened to accept a larger (off the peg) bearing shell and rod end is an interesting option;

Do you believe that story from Lang racing?
I'm sure they're a competent motor repair shop, but I just dont see them testing it. You know, take 10 engines, and drive 100k miles with each engine and then see if there's a different wear problem.

The point is, what they're doing isn't new at all. There's another famous bmw engine that revs to 8k+, similar in construction to the s54 and that particular engine has wider bearingshells than the s54. Thats the eurospec S50b32 like it was fitted in the e36 M3 and z3m. And that engine happens to probably even suffer from worse rodbearing issues.... :roll: :lol:
So I don't think widening the shells with 1 or 2mm is going to bring the answer.
I also don't think the wear is a result of too much pressure/forces on the bearings.

 

[MrPT]

I don’t really know enough to have an opinion on it, just found it interesting.

 

[abar121]

Google search tells me otherwise.

The 100k thing is a vtec failure, lots of engines gone pop before then, mostly due to people skimping on maintenance and fuel choice

Most failures were caused by people not checking the oil , as vtec does like a little at a time. The F20c is for some unknown reason a bugger to read and weirdly can read different across the dipstick from one side to the other ! I had one in a Westfield. The other reason was that they didnt come with any baffling in the sump , so a combination of dumped clutches and low oil kills any engine pretty quickly.
If I had an S54 engine , then it is a pretty highly tuned engine , to the point of race design, then 70k miles on a set of shells is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I could have bought an MC at the time and its lovely car , but certain M Tax bills and its foibles made me go for the 3.0i Coupe. Just get them changed Iain for peace of mind. You will feel a lot more confident in the car and take that worry out the equation every time you start it.

There were serious issues with the earlier s2k engines, court cases which led to the F22 for the US market at least. Low mileage engines with plenty of oil were also affected. I used to follow the S2K forum yonks ago and there were many excellent threads on the subject. I always found them harsh at high revs, unlike the lovely engine note from a B18 or K20.

 

[JoshsZ4M]

Darragh (Everything ///M3’s) did mine - along with a host of other work - back in February. This was at 60k miles, which seems to suggest the cars been warmed up carefully and driven well over the years. Feels like they would have gone for another 60k miles... although I was never going to take that risk

 

[GuidoK]

Those look good as they dont have the characteristic oval wear spots.
That's how it starts (before the copper shines through etc).

Those 2 shells where it looks like little pieces of the layer started breaking out is a bit odd. Maybe that's how it starts prior to the oval spots.
But overall very little wear even for 60k miles, so you can be assured your engine has been treated very well over the years.

 

[Justino]

Shells 2 and 3 on the top left look concerning, as if the layer has chipped off/delaminated, rather than worn smoothly which is what I'd expect to see. Did that happen during the removal process or where they like that? If so there might be some fragments floating about in the oil/filter. Not seen wear like that before.

 

[Justino]

This is an interesting read from another M3 forum

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

 

[JoshsZ4M]

Those look good as they dont have the characteristic oval wear spots.
That's how it starts (before the copper shines through etc).

Those 2 shells where it looks like little pieces of the layer started breaking out is a bit odd. Maybe that's how it starts prior to the oval spots.
But overall very little wear even for 60k miles, so you can be assured your engine has been treated very well over the years.

I was really happy with this outcome to be fair. Everything else (suspension bushes, dampers, engine mounts, etc) was checked as part of the insp2 and found to have similarly low levels of fatigue/wear. Naturally it will always have whatever it needs spent on it

 

[DSGRNMCM]

I'm a new owner, at 90k miles and no history shows that it has been done on mine, I'm trying to find a garage to do it in Devon, but proving harder than I imagined. I feel content to pay £1300 ish to prevent a £5-6k bill and the hassels of a goosed block. I'll report how I get on with the repair.

I had an instant quote from Munich Legends of £1300 all in, which was perfect, just that I live in Devon.

 

[GuidoK]

I had an instant quote from Munich Legends of £1300 all in, which was perfect, just that I live in Devon.

I'm not British but do know that Bristol is closer:
https://www.redish-motorsport.com/BMWE85E86Z4MS54ConrodBearingShells.html
Prices and all
They say the plastigauge both the old and new bearings, which is a lot of work.

You can ask them to install a new oil pump piston, a known wear item.
You can get DLC coated ones:
https://burkhart-engineering.com/en/shop/bmw/bmw-ag/bmw-z3-z4-z8/dlc-beschichteter-edelstahlkolben-fuer-s54-oelpumpe-bmw-z4-m-e46-m3-inkl-csl/
(I don't know what else you need for this like bolts, o-rings or gaskets, but I'm sure the supplier knows)

 

[DSGRNMCM]

Brilliant,

Thanks GuidoK, great website. Just a faff of getting there.

just had another quote in: (May as well list them for other users, all prices include VAT)

Munich Legends Essex £1200

Paddock Exeter £1440

Redish Motor Sport Bristol ACL Bearings / BMW Bolts £995 / ACL Bearings / ARP Bolts £1070
BMW Bearings / BMW Bolts £1420 / BMW Bearings / ARP Bolts £1490.

Forza GB Caldicot £1100 BMW parts