Z4 to Elise..

[greddyl30pjg]

touche sir, I'll give you that! You gotta use what resources you have to huh!

Its not a particularly cheap engine. There was enough, sorry more than enough torque to pull my Celica around below 6k adequatley so i imagine there would be plenty of torque for a car half its weight! & as for 'tiresome on a day to day basis'...doesnt that pretty much fit the Elises character! No frills little track motor for the road? Its not really the definition of a day-to-day car is it.

The best engine is the K20a??...drive a Tsport & Civic/ Integra type R- the K20 & 2zz have very similar characteristics! Lift is Toyotas/ Yamahas simplified take on v-tec. Odd to say the 2zz would be tiresome but the k20, with the same power delivery, is the best engine for the elise...but hey, thats your opinion & you're entitled to voice it good sir & on that note, i shall troll no more!

 

[Simon_P]

Its not a particularly cheap engine. There was enough, sorry more than enough torque to pull my Celica around below 6k adequatley so i imagine there would be plenty of torque for a car half its weight! & as for 'tiresome on a day to day basis'...doesnt that pretty much fit the Elises character! No frills little track motor for the road? Its not really the definition of a day-to-day car is it.

The best engine is the K20a??...drive a Tsport & Civic/ Integra type R- the K20 & 2zz have very similar characteristics! Lift is Toyotas/ Yamahas simplified take on v-tec. Odd to say the 2zz would be tiresome but the k20, with the same power delivery, is the best engine for the elise...but hey, thats your opinion & you're entitled to voice it good sir & on that note, i shall troll no more!

Bloody trolls

You were not used to a razor sharp driving tool in the Celica

imo the engine just doesn’t suit the car with the high rev limit – once lowered it makes it a different animal. That would be the first thing I did on the car under my ownership. Nope the Elise especially in S2 format is a day to day car no problem. It has aircon, electric windows, decent stereo, lots of cubby holes and in some cup holders! It is a great road car and you can have some brilliant fun under 60mph (feeling like you are going a lot faster) which is why the yota doesn’t match because at 50 you would be in 1st on the redline… ok now I am trolling it would be second but still wrung out. Yup the K20a fettled with a good map and other bits is the best engine for the Elise imo and is hundreds of miles apart from the yota. I think everyone in their life should drive a well sorted Honda equipped Elise to see what driving is about.

 

[Jonnymito]

I moved to my Z4 coupe after having a VX220 for almost 7 years. Had it as a daily drive for a large part of that time and it's managable but only just and they are freezing in the winter.....

If you are looking for something for pure driving engagement and fun any of the lotus derivatives will give you a far more engaging driving experience when driven hard and to be frank the power is simply not something I ever felt was lacking. I did at least 8 trips to the continent in mine for various track days and events and loved it. On the days when I use the Z for hooning a miss my VX desperately but for the run to work or going for shopping or even just going somewhere to actually get there rather than just driving for fun the Z is a far easier car to live with.

I do still miss my VX though and if I was ever in a position where I could go back to having a 2nd car for fun a VX220/Elise would be sitting in the garage in a heartbeat. If you get the chance to own one, even if it's just for a short time you should do it. Quality is never missed until experienced, you may realise that it is simply too focused or you might ,like many others, simply fall in love with the sublime handling and the way something so light can brake so much later than you think is possible and carry far more speed through bends than you think physics allows. At the end of the day there will be lots of people on here who will have varying opinions on why you should and why you shouldn't, ultimately you'll never know if it's for you until you try.

Oh and if you are considering a Honda equipped S1 as Simon_P was sugesting I can vouch for that completely. OPne of the guys I'm out with regulalry has a supercharged Type-r converted S1 and it is around 300bhp. It is a devestatingly quick car point to point.

 

[bigdog]

Dont the S2 Elises have the 190bhp, 2zz Toyota engine out of the Celica/ Corolla T-sport rather than the old rover lump? or is that just the later ones? -if buying i would defo go for one with the rev happy & reliable Toyota lump.

Had a look around one/ sat in one a while back. Im generally not bothered about practicality but i found it ridiculously difficult to get in/ out (6.2"). Love the Exige & always wanted one but crossed it off the list after that day.

No its the later 2004 111r that has the Celica engine and they are far from reliable if taken to the track due to oil starvation not to mention the chocolate gearbox if not looked after properly. Its the 111s/135 that had the arguably 'better' K based engine. Once mastered getting in/out is very easy. Its a car you buy with your heart.

I understand it's the same fate as a lot of engines in the Lotus 7 type cars. To many lateral G's for the engine suppliers oil sump to deal with. Lotus should have baffled the sump or installed a dry sump system. I think it would be fair to say the Yota engine is not bad. Just not fit for purpose in high G applications.

On the ingress/egress issue. I once owned a Speedster 356 replica. That thing was a pita to get into with the hood up. I'm currently shopping for a seven. The seven just might be a pita and a half to get into. Being an old git doesn't help either. But I do want to own a seven before I take the long dirt nap. I tend to buy with my heart. I find that rather easy though. As my head is usually up my bum and tends to not get in the way. :lol:

 

[dlp]

The Z is an old mans posing car, the Elise is more a purist drivers car.

You need to drive one on an extended test drive and maybe do a track day experience, you will quickly know if its the car for you.

Very easy to get in and out of and great great fun, you don't need big power to get a thrill, I loved my S2 far more than my 321bhp Z3M.

Ditched my Elise when I moved to Surrey only to avoid the tiny timid women driving Q7's and Touaregs et al who despite their poor driving skills are confident that when they crash, and they will crash, that they and the kids will be OK and only the people in the little car will die.

 

[Ewazix]

Before getting the Z4 I turned up with cash to buy a VX Turbo and was very disappointed to find I couldn't get in it with the roof on, as a big'ish 6 foot 2 incher it was a non-starter, gutted

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Dont the S2 Elises have the 190bhp, 2zz Toyota engine out of the Celica/ Corolla T-sport rather than the old rover lump? or is that just the later ones? -if buying i would defo go for one with the rev happy & reliable Toyota lump.

Had a look around one/ sat in one a while back. Im generally not bothered about practicality but i found it ridiculously difficult to get in/ out (6.2"). Love the Exige & always wanted one but crossed it off the list after that day.

No its the later 2004 111r that has the Celica engine and they are far from reliable if taken to the track due to oil starvation not to mention the chocolate gearbox if not looked after properly. Its the 111s/135 that had the arguably 'better' K based engine. Once mastered getting in/out is very easy. Its a car you buy with your heart.

I understand it's the same fate as a lot of engines in the Lotus 7 type cars. To many lateral G's for the engine suppliers oil sump to deal with. Lotus should have baffled the sump or installed a dry sump system. I think it would be fair to say the Yota engine is not bad. Just not fit for purpose in high G applications.

On the ingress/egress issue. I once owned a Speedster 356 replica. That thing was a pita to get into with the hood up. I'm currently shopping for a seven. The seven just might be a pita and a half to get into. Being an old git doesn't help either. But I do want to own a seven before I take the long dirt nap. I tend to buy with my heart. I find that rather easy though. As my head is usually up my bum and tends to not get in the way. :lol:

Getting into a Seven is pretty easy as it has no roof or doors....getting out again can be a bit of a scramble though
There's no point in trying to get in with the hood in place anyway as it will steam up to the point of being undrivable before you've got the harnesses buckled!

 

[Paza3]

Its not a particularly cheap engine. There was enough, sorry more than enough torque to pull my Celica around below 6k adequatley so i imagine there would be plenty of torque for a car half its weight! & as for 'tiresome on a day to day basis'...doesnt that pretty much fit the Elises character! No frills little track motor for the road? Its not really the definition of a day-to-day car is it.

The best engine is the K20a??...drive a Tsport & Civic/ Integra type R- the K20 & 2zz have very similar characteristics! Lift is Toyotas/ Yamahas simplified take on v-tec. Odd to say the 2zz would be tiresome but the k20, with the same power delivery, is the best engine for the elise...but hey, thats your opinion & you're entitled to voice it good sir & on that note, i shall troll no more!

Bloody trolls

You were not used to a razor sharp driving tool in the Celica

imo the engine just doesn’t suit the car with the high rev limit – once lowered it makes it a different animal. That would be the first thing I did on the car under my ownership. Nope the Elise especially in S2 format is a day to day car no problem. It has aircon, electric windows, decent stereo, lots of cubby holes and in some cup holders! It is a great road car and you can have some brilliant fun under 60mph (feeling like you are going a lot faster) which is why the yota doesn’t match because at 50 you would be in 1st on the redline… ok now I am trolling it would be second but still wrung out. Yup the K20a fettled with a good map and other bits is the best engine for the Elise imo and is hundreds of miles apart from the yota. I think everyone in their life should drive a well sorted Honda equipped Elise to see what driving is about.

Simon have your owed a S2 R or Exige?

 

[bigdog]

Getting into a Seven is pretty easy as it has no roof or doors....getting out again can be a bit of a scramble though
There's no point in trying to get in with the hood in place anyway as it will steam up to the point of being undrivable before you've got the harnesses buckled!

True. It was very easy to just fall into the speedster. I do envision a time while out and about that I might need to erect the hood. I suppose I could offer a ride to a hot chick in exchange for putting the hood up after grandpa bigdog has got into the 7. :evil: Or after having been slapped silly by said hot chick. Hire a local urchin to button up the hood.

 

[Simon_P]

I understand it's the same fate as a lot of engines in the Lotus 7 type cars. To many lateral G's for the engine suppliers oil sump to deal with. Lotus should have baffled the sump or installed a dry sump system. I think it would be fair to say the Yota engine is not bad. Just not fit for purpose in high G applications.

Yup they should have however its created a nice earner for the after market providers of sumps.

 

[Simon_P]

Simon have your owed a S2 R or Exige?

S2 r for two very frustrating months, I much prefered a breathed on K Elise. As I said previously once the rev limit is lowered it is a much better drive (I borrowed a car for two days with the ECU flashed) and should have left the factory this way.

 

[RJS-Z4]

Is the elise any better to get in/out than the vx220?

I literally could not own one of those unless it was 100% weekend toy, but maybe the lotus could work?

 

[Simon_P]

Is the elise any better to get in/out than the vx220?

I literally could not own one of those unless it was 100% weekend toy, but maybe the lotus could work?

Its the same however you aren't ashamed when you exit the VX220 no matter what you look like with arms and legs everywhere :wink: :lol:

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Getting into a Seven is pretty easy as it has no roof or doors....getting out again can be a bit of a scramble though
There's no point in trying to get in with the hood in place anyway as it will steam up to the point of being undrivable before you've got the harnesses buckled!

True. It was very easy to just fall into the speedster. I do envision a time while out and about that I might need to erect the hood. I suppose I could offer a ride to a hot chick in exchange for putting the hood up after grandpa bigdog has got into the 7. :evil: Or after having been slapped silly by said hot chick. Hire a local urchin to button up the hood.

You'd be better off just driving said hot chick home in the rain else she break her finger nails on the press studs and hate the car and it's owner forever

 

[Mowflow]

Getting into a Seven is pretty easy as it has no roof or doors....getting out again can be a bit of a scramble though
There's no point in trying to get in with the hood in place anyway as it will steam up to the point of being undrivable before you've got the harnesses buckled!

The first time i drove this one it took me a while to work out how to get in. You sit on the scaffolding and drop in via where the sunroof would be. To get out you need to be good at pull-ups.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Getting into a Seven is pretty easy as it has no roof or doors....getting out again can be a bit of a scramble though
There's no point in trying to get in with the hood in place anyway as it will steam up to the point of being undrivable before you've got the harnesses buckled!

The first time i drove this one it took me a while to work out how to get in. You sit on the scaffolding and drop in via where the sunroof would be. To get out you need to be good at pull-ups.

Okay Your cage is slightly more extensive than mine - I haven't even fitted the petit strut, preferring to use the mounting point for a camera

 

[Paza3]

Simon have your owed a S2 R or Exige?

S2 r for two very frustrating months, I much prefered a breathed on K Elise. As I said previously once the rev limit is lowered it is a much better drive (I borrowed a car for two days with the ECU flashed) and should have left the factory this way.

Ok, I was lead to believe the Exige has a different map to the R so if that's the case my experience may be different to yours. I have also experience of K series engine cars , its obvious you did not have a great experience in your ownership but I disagree with what you say about the driving experience I find plenty enough torque for every day driving and the key with these cars in understanding how to drive these cars as of course there is an art of keep it on the boil and I enjoy driving hard after doing 980 miles in a weekend over the dales/lakes it was a wonderful learning experience with the car. Its a different experience to the typical power band but believe this adds to its character. So for me its great and enjoyable engine and the way the power is delivered ......but the only way your understand is to try for yourself. I have a friend who also had a Elise R and did not like it much and was happier with his K series in his s1 so its horse for course.

K series are not an issue a simply upgraded to the newer freelandor gasket will sort you out.... but they are an old engine with reliability issues more so in the s1
Yota lumps can suffer oil starvation subject to hard track use , eg at Spa but a simple 350 sump upgrade will sort this and frankly not a great expense
Gearboxes, IMO a few case yes but I feel due to the hard life these cars have compound to other marques, as I said before when this was mention to me when I purchased my Exige I suggest a major service at Bmw and new brakes on my Z4M was about the same cost as it would set me back to get a replacement box therefore throw it the Toyota Yaris service costs I live with the chance as when disaster cost are 1000-1500 quid I live with that all day long especially after m96 ownership.
Agree the limit should be lower maybe 5500 would be a improvement not expensive to sort Hanger111 do off the shelf for 180ish I think

I have had over 80 cars over the years not all supercars some right old dogs but I can say that my little Lotus is one of the most enjoyable yet! So much drama! ..... it you do get a 111r or Exige make sure its got a decent Exhaust is not great without this , mine sounds amazing now I fitted a upgraded SS exhaust pops and bangs all day long on overun :evil:

Lets not forget the deprecation is non existent on these , which is a tempting factor not to mention the generous mpg K series or yota

 

[Simon_P]

Simon have your owed a S2 R or Exige?

S2 r for two very frustrating months, I much prefered a breathed on K Elise. As I said previously once the rev limit is lowered it is a much better drive (I borrowed a car for two days with the ECU flashed) and should have left the factory this way.

Ok, I was lead to believe the Exige has a different map to the R so if that's the case my experience may be different to yours. I have also experience of K series engine cars , its obvious you did not have a great experience in your ownership but I disagree with what you say about the driving experience I find plenty enough torque for every day driving and the key with these cars in understanding how to drive these cars as of course there is an art of keep it on the boil and I enjoy driving hard after doing 980 miles in a weekend over the dales/lakes it was a wonderful learning experience with the car. Its a different experience to the typical power band but believe this adds to its character. So for me its great and enjoyable engine and the way the power is delivered ......but the only way your understand is to try for yourself. I have a friend who also had a Elise R and did not like it much and was happier with his K series in his s1 so its horse for course.

K series are not an issue a simply upgraded to the newer freelandor gasket will sort you out.... but they are an old engine with reliability issues more so in the s1
Yota lumps can suffer oil starvation subject to hard track use , eg at Spa but a simple 350 sump upgrade will sort this and frankly not a great expense
Gearboxes, IMO a few case yes but I feel due to the hard life these cars have compound to other marques, as I said before when this was mention to me when I purchased my Exige I suggest a major service at Bmw and new brakes on my Z4M was about the same cost as it would set me back to get a replacement box therefore throw it the Toyota Yaris service costs I live with the chance as when disaster cost are 1000-1500 quid I live with that all day long especially after m96 ownership.
Agree the limit should be lower maybe 5500 would be a improvement not expensive to sort Hanger111 do off the shelf for 180ish I think

I have had over 80 cars over the years not all supercars so right old dogs but I can say that my little Lotus is one of the most enjoyable yet! So much drama! ..... it you do get a 111r or Exige make sure its got a decent Exhaust is not great without this , mine sounds amazing now I fitted a upgraded SS exhaust pops and bangs all day long on overun :evil:

Lets not forget the deprecation is non existent on these , which is a tempting factor not to mention the generous mpg K series or yota

The only place the standard map didn't frustarate me was on track where it absolutely sang, this was the perfect environment for it. Under normal road driving, not fast road it frustrated me Absolutely an exhaust is manditory - what did you go for, Tubular? You don't have to sell Lotus to me it was the most fun I have ever had when I was with a Lotus, my friends just don't understand my love of the marque but they really get under your skin. So many roadtrips, track days here and abroad - I will get an Evora next

 

[greddyl30pjg]

A up Simon, me again! :evil:

The only place the standard map didn't frustarate me was on track where it absolutely sang

...so the only time you enjoyed the 2zz was on the track, arguably what the 'track car with number plates' was made for! ..you said it all!
In all seriousness i did yet more quality research (ohhh yes-google!) & seems you are quite right, i conceed! From what i read the 2zz does have issues with oil starvation. I was unaware of this as its only when they pull 1g+ when cornering, something that in its Toyota guise generally doesnt happen, i mean, its no razor sharpe driving tool is it! Apparently the engine is mounted more upright in order for it to fit in the Elise/ Exige which doesnt help the issue either.

Something else i didnt realise which may help the OP:
111S- K series
111R- 2ZZ-GE
Elise S- 1ZZ-FE

 

[Simon_P]

A up Simon, me again! :evil:

Oh god...

The only place the standard map didn't frustarate me was on track where it absolutely sang

...so the only time you enjoyed the 2zz was on the track, arguably what the 'track car with number plates' was made for! ..you said it all!
In all seriousness i did yet more quality research (ohhh yes-google!) & seems you are quite right, i conceed! From what i read the 2zz does have issues with oil starvation. I was unaware of this as its only when they pull 1g+ when cornering, something that in its Toyota guise generally doesnt happen, i mean, its no razor sharpe driving tool is it! Apparently the engine is mounted more upright in order for it to fit in the Elise/ Exige which doesnt help the issue either.

Something else i didnt realise which may help the OP:
111S- K series
111R- 2ZZ-GE
Elise S- 1ZZ-FE

Glad you found out what I was saying was correct! The 111r is certainly not a 'track car with number plates' that would be a Caterham or equivalent. The remit of the 111r was a Boxster rival. A bit further up I listed some of the spec - electric windows, central locking etc etc It was more a B road blaster roadster you could take on track rather than a track toy which was the 211 or the older S1 series - think 160/190 spec cars. All the 111r needs imo is a map change, a baffled sump and some good yoko tyres and you have a spot on cheap to buy/cheap to run sports car

Re the engines and cars there are a lot more combos than you typed above.